Summoner Job needs a drastic change.

I already sent a suggestion about this to S-E via suggestions option in the game.
However I wish to share this with the community and eventually see the feedback and how you receive this idea.

We can't forget that the Summoner Job is very unique in it's original mechanic, often considered an overpowered class in older FF games.

To use it openly in the field as it is in an MMO would probably not only destabilize the game but also give it a giant lag if you get several Summoners use a single powerful spell to wipe the area of the face of Eorzea. To prevent abuse of this class it was downgraded to having a small minion do the work and that's pretty much it. Quite boring if you ask me. The abilities that make it different than Sage is the ability to have a Efreet, Garuda and Titan as Minions. And that is not satisfactory at all.

I Uploaded a complete design here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%20changes.txt

Please constructive feedback only.

just edit your comment and post us whole suggestion, this way u can bypass 1k restriction :) sorry not gonna download nothing :)

Okay I hope this doesnt sound mean, but why do you want to change Summoner, just so it's more "traditional", not everything would work the way it did in a single player game when it's transfered to an MMO; this topic has been brought up numerous times by a lot of people.

Additionally, you mentioned in your post that summoner feels like arcanist mark 2 or 2.0, you do realize that that is every job, right? Jobs are just an extenstion of the base class, so that is why it feels like mark 2 or 2.0, because it is.

I'm amazed by the number of people who aren't understanding what FFxiv's summoner is and why the job is on point on what it is supposed to do, even though it isn't what it was in previous FFs (and even more so since the extension, with the bahamut transe).


What you want is the traditional summoner which is an evoker. You summon big things that do the work in your place and suck your MPs dry in no time.

What we have now is an invoker, using the summons's power to enhance his own capabilities and unleash hell on his enemies. The summons we have aren't summons in the traditional FF way but a physical manifestation of tainted aether you have within your body (acquired when you fought the corresponding primals) They also fall under the invoking branch of summoning. They are an extension of the summoner's power, not a borrowed power like evoker's power.

Personally I think Summoner is in a very good place. If you let go and embrace SMN as it is designed, it's actually pretty awesome.

Anyway, a couple things:

First, you listed Carbuncle as a Summoner ability, but Arcanist already has it. Are you looking for a complete redesign of Arcanist as well to accommodate Summoner?

Second, there's no reason a Summoner should be able to summon Gilgamesh as you suggested. He's not a Primal, there is no aetheric Gilgamesh energy to form a construct from. The same applies to Siren. She's not a primal.

While I can understand wanting Summoner to be designed with a bigger focus on summoning actual creatures rather than simply harnessing their power, that's just how it is in FFXIV. Summoning doesn't work the same as it did in previous titles. Primals don't willingly share their power or come to our aid when we call them. Summoners draw and utilize what power they are able to control. The lore and gameplay support how XIV's Summoner has been implemented and I wouldnt expect any sort of overhaul in the way that you suggested.

It would be cool if they were an instant summon that you could cast and then when they did their attack, retreat. Course for the bigger primal ones, that would be best to put a longer recast time on them so people don't spam them and lag the game like they do with holy. ( Heck when they're in sanctuarys, that summoning should be nullified at all times.) I feel we should at least keep carbuncle as a tank and caster though.

Well 3.1 should (better, lol) bring the summon glamour system, I want my Shiva dammit, lol?

*coughs* Male Eos and Selene too *coughs*

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

*coughs* Male Eos and Selene too *coughs*

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So maybe Helios, Apollo, or Tsukiyomi? Lol

The way SMN can use Ahk Morn now is how the job should've been designed from the start. Instead of Egi's you get spells based on signature Primal abilities (whether for attack, defense, support). Carbuncles would carry over from ACN (with potency boost of their skills), with the glamour option given to them.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

The way SMN can use Ahk Morn now is how the job should\\'ve been designed from the start. Instead of Egi\\'s you get spells based on signature Primal abilities (whether for attack, defense, support). Carbuncles would carry over from ACN (with potency boost of their skills), with the glamour option given to them.

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This is how I expected smn to play with the artwork for a realm reborn depicted ifrit. The dots and chicken nugget Lord kinda threw me off but whatever the job is still fun.

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Originally Posted by BlackHole

this class it was downgraded to having a small minion do the work and that's pretty much it. Quite boring if you ask me. The abilities that make it different than Sage is the ability to have a Efreet, Garuda and Titan as Minions. And that is not satisfactory at all.

Please constructive feedback only.

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I'm sorry but you're basing your opinion on just having a level 35 summoner. Level her up and you'll find she's a beast on DPS

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

The way SMN can use Ahk Morn now is how the job should've been designed from the start. Instead of Egi's you get spells based on signature Primal abilities (whether for attack, defense, support). Carbuncles would carry over from ACN (with potency boost of their skills), with the glamour option given to them.

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You do realize what you said about Carbuncle is basically what the Job is, right. Titan and Garuda replace the 2 Carbuncles with the same moves, but with different name, and slightly elevated stats.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

You do realize what you said about Carbuncle is basically what the Job is, right. Titan and Garuda replace the 2 Carbuncles with the same moves, but with different name, and slightly elevated stats.

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Yes, I already know this.

Never said the glamour option would be to create Egi tho. Just a palette/colour swap of the Carbuncles, so people can 'personalise' their pet. Considering how there's different coloured Carbuncles used by NPCs in the game, it wouldn't cause any lore-conflicts either.

I just don't understand why we can't get the summoner we all want. I want to press one button, and get a 3 and a half minute cutscene and everyone else has their game paused while watching my cutscene because, you know.....I am the almighty summoner and you should be happy I even allow you in my party. You can watch my summon destroy everything. Then when it's over, I will allow my party to do a combo or two before I press another button and prepare for another amazing cutscene.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

I just don't understand why we can't get the summoner we all want. I want to press one button, and get a 3 and a half minute cutscene and everyone else has their game paused while watching my cutscene because, you know.....I am the almighty summoner and you should be happy I even allow you in my party. You can watch my summon destroy everything. Then when it's over, I will allow my party to do a combo or two before I press another button and prepare for another amazing cutscene.

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LOL..this is too funny.

For real though, I would love to have a real pet class in this game. Flashy or not..something like Aion's even, at least make it feel like a pet job and not a poison mage with a tiny pathetic creature who does next to nothing ; ;

Having cleared A4S as SMN, I have this to say:

You overhaul my job? You die!

But seriously? At least get to Level 50 before suggesting "drastic changes" to a job. Even then, Level 60 and good raid experience is pretty much required to be able to formulate a proper opinion on this stuff...

You know, Summoner has to be the MOST common job in XIV that people keep trying to suggest changes for, because it doesn't depict the stereotype of the class. Can people really not stand the class not being just copy/paste like every past game?

Heck, more often than not, from what I've seen, people who are suggesting big changes to summoner, either only play it and refuse to play anything else (This my job, maek uber stronk plox), or people who haven't played it in end game content (Either the XIV end stuff like coil/ect, or HW end content, like Alex Savage) and think they know something 'good' to change about it, or even try to completely overhaul it.

Some of what you're suggesting doesn't even make sense

1.Sylph [lvl 30 Job quest] (Aquired by completing Class quest and going to Haukke Manor to retrieve a crystal of summoning, and helping a dying Syph, help is too lateand Sylph enters the Crystal, becoming your Summon.)
-Sylph casts Regen II on all Party/Raid members for 8 seconds.
-Minion Abilities: Small Heal, Aero.


Why would a starting summon be something from a 'Beast Tribe'? Think of how many tribes there are, and how weird it would be to have one of them as a 'summon'. Why would you learn summoning so bloody late, instead of early on, since it IS part of your total DPS (You notice how much it does over time in the real end game stuff, not just being in i110~i130 stuff that's much easier to get now)

Why would it have a 'Regen II' when Regen is a white mage spell, and same with aero.

Why would a summoning crystal be in Haukke Manor, when the manor tainted as bloody hell there?

Spoiler alert

If you follow the entire summoner storyline until the end of the current HW stuff, then you'd see why a lot of what you're suggesting is impossible to do, and WHY we have Akh Morn, but again, you're making massive suggestions without knowing the full reason why it's like how it is right now

-As Minion Siren uses :Harp Throw (small DPS damage, she can toss it at you forno damage if you ignore her or not play with her) or Harp Song (she totally ignores battle and just plays and sings following you, I think this is needed in this game :))

That's just.....bad. You're suggesting that a PET have skills that do nothing at all, and you're wasting your DPS output for....crap? No.


A LOT of your 'skills' you suggest either have a chance to do multiple things allllll at once (Some of which are kind of OP), or they do nothing at all and can screw over your DPS.

Why would anyone need THREE classes at levels 30/30/15 just to get the bloody job unlocked?


I'd say more, but I'm pretty sure with what I've said so far, it just comes off as 'mean and unsupportive'. Don't post a suggestion if you're not ready for all the feedback you will get for posting it.

While I agree that OP's suggestions range from not thought out to outright nonsensical (Regen II? Seriously?!), SE themselves have indicated they've not had a full grasp of the direction to take SMN in at times. Instead it feels like they 'wing' it on a patch by patch basis.

First they wanted to balance the Egis so it wasn't just Garu being used all the time (which didn't really work, especially now since as of HW theres no point using Ifrit due to DWT-TriD-Contagion combo). Then they were going to add new Egi, which we now know isnt happening, and who knows if they'll come through with Egi glamours since they're being a bit non-commital regarding that currently.

With that said, I like SMN for the most part. Mained it through all of ARR and cleared every PvE content with it too.

I personally like the way summoner is to a point. I put up this suggestion a while back and have been updating it from time to time. I think it solves a lot of the issues people have been seeing. While most of the issues are aesthetic issues I think this would make people happy.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...do-the-new-egi.