Dex based Paladin Tanks?

While I was looking up information on paladin builds I didn't really see anything about dex builds? I found it increased block rate %. But I couldn't find how much it increased per +dex

I know we have bulwark and sheltron to offset the high damage moves but just successfully blocking smaller attacks from bosses or any enemy adds up quick. I feel like this could be a very useful build at a higher level where enemies dish out MUCH higher dps

Just using the +30 attribute points from reaching level 50

+vit gives around +15 hp per point. This'll give you 450hp. But if you successfully block 23 attacks of 100 dmg in a dungeon you saved more. Considering you are using a high block rate shield with low dmg reduct

+str will help increase enmity and increase dmg reduct, but percentage increase is small. Dealing out more dmg is helpful but compared to any dps class, not really

So depending on the +% of the dex stat compared I am highly considering taking this avenue.

And I apologize for the double post, but my god, the 1000 char limit killed my original post T_T. Had to shorten it by nearly 3000 characters.

I don't believe Dex has this effect anymore as of 3.0

It was never very much anyway.

Ack! Seriously? Does it even do anything for paladin's anymore?

It's still not enough to make it worth it (assuming Dex even has this effect). A str-based build is still key.

Yep, 3.0 eliminated all Defensive Increases from both STR and DEX.

Dex no longer effects block rate. 35 extra VIT is no where near as useful as 35 STR.

Passive mitigation in FF14 is very weak. DPS is king.

The order you should prioritize your stats is:

1. Vit: until encounter cap is reached, anymore VIT than needed is a wasted stat

2. Accuracy: You NEED to meet the accuracy caps. This is a must. You literally cannot function in your job without it. Plus misses will KILL your DPS. Hit the cap and then get no more.

3. STR: Get as much STR as you can all the time, everytime. There is no cap for STR. The more the better.

4. Crit hit: The most improved secondary stat in 3.0 not only dors crit hit effect the rate in which you crit but it also effects the potency of the crits.

5. Determination: While nowhere near as powerful as it was in ARR, 3.0 Det is still good and should be stacked.

Every other stat is useless for tanks and should be avoided.

FFXIV's bosses' small hits are minor annoyances, all encounters are based off of mitigating a large "tank buster" and maybe a small auto attack afterwards but basically what I'm saying is even dex did anything - too much damage mitigation is overkill and uneeded, maybe even detrimental since you could focus that excess mitigation on damage output instead

Dang, that's a shame they took Dex away from providing anything, but thank you all for the responses and advice. I'm still a bit sad I can't do this now though. I can understand it not being meant for expert level play, but I prefer to stay casual anyways. Not to say I'd ignore the fundamental tank functions, but I like to try to be a bit different :P

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

Dang, that's a shame they took Dex away from providing anything, but thank you all for the responses and advice. I'm still a bit sad I can't do this now though. I can understand it not being meant for expert level play, but I prefer to stay casual anyways. Not to say I'd ignore the fundamental tank functions, but I like to try to be a bit different :P

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Dex was trash even when it did something though. You needed bard/ninja's level of dexterity to have any significant impact, and the only way to get more dex without losing your purpose as a STR based job in the role of tank has been lost since i70 crafted accessories.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

Dang, that's a shame they took Dex away from providing anything, but thank you all for the responses and advice. I'm still a bit sad I can't do this now though. I can understand it not being meant for expert level play, but I prefer to stay casual anyways. Not to say I'd ignore the fundamental tank functions, but I like to try to be a bit different :P

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Welcome to FF14 The Clone Wars...your a bit late but we still have cookies and punch...drink up!

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Dex was trash even when it did something though. You needed bard/ninja's level of dexterity to have any significant impact, and the only way to get more dex without losing your purpose as a STR based job in the role of tank has been lost since i70 crafted accessories.

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I'm just curious. Did you actually try a dex based tank prior to 3.0? After getting responses, I did some more research (trying to see if dex did anything new now) and found a few interesting things from past players who did dex based tank. Most said it was a small niche that was extremely useful (according to them, they were blocking near 65% of attacks, which is huge). So I can't help thinking this was simply an underrated version that most never bothered to try (as it kinda goes opposite direction of most tank builds... but then again FFXIV is pushing STR based tanks that contribute dps... which is already off the norm). And sorry if I'm coming off as rude, I'm honestly not trying to.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

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I tried, but that wasn't honestly worth the trouble. The total block + parry rate of a full dexterity never went high enough to justify the loss of strengh or vit compared to the increase you had with sticking to crafted griffonskin accessories and leaving it as it was.

after that, with i100 and higher accessories, it was just too much of a loss to bother with it at all, especially since block and parry lost a lot of what little value they had due to the overload of magic attacks in raids.

yea, haven't had the pleasure of trying out a raid yet... I've heard they're fun and totally not full of elitist's :P

And does Dex do anything now? I'm just curious. I looked in the 3.0 patch updates and all i saw was this

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Certain attributes no longer affect parry or block.

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I went ahead and assumed that was the Dex drop, but I'm curious if it was ever detailed anywhere.

I had a dex build, all my accessory had max dex plus tons of strength. My mitagtion was quite high and 0 aggro issues cause of extra strength. Also dodged attacks a lot more. Problem with ff14 is stats were tiered for block and parry. Had to get to get to a certain value else no change. And anything magic base mitigation was out the window. Homogenization sucks!

Dex was garbage before and it does absolutely nothing now.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

I'm just curious. Did you actually try a dex based tank prior to 3.0? After getting responses, I did some more research (trying to see if dex did anything new now) and found a few interesting things from past players who did dex based tank. Most said it was a small niche that was extremely useful (according to them, they were blocking near 65% of attacks, which is huge). So I can't help thinking this was simply an underrated version that most never bothered to try (as it kinda goes opposite direction of most tank builds... but then again FFXIV is pushing STR based tanks that contribute dps... which is already off the norm). And sorry if I'm coming off as rude, I'm honestly not trying to.

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Well I guess to answer your own question you should maybe ask what do you really gain from mitigating so much damage?
Once you're mitigating that much damage what are you able to do after? I just see it as a serious loss if im already able to survive whatever encounter im doing without the extra mitigation why would I want to lose points in damage just to be able to survive even more? This game doesnt really have any rng surprise attacks that would warrant the need to mitigate even more damage than is needed.

That being said the amount mitigated before did not outweigh the stat it was replacing sadly, it was just uneeded mitigation (imo) even melds would've been better spent on just a flat vit increase. Imo yes it did add more variety in the game but sometimes less is more just due to somethings just being suboptimal and possibly detrimental to a party just by allowing players to use that build

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

And I apologize for the double post, but my god, the 1000 char limit killed my original post T_T. Had to shorten it by nearly 3000 characters.

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You can always edit a post to bypass the limit. Bit annoying, yes, but it's a way to bypass it.

Others already mentioned what I was going to say, but saw no one let you know about this. Figured you may like to know for the future. :)

I'd thought about something like that, as well. Alternate tanking methods are fun, but it's a bit of a shame how much they restrict stat customizability right now (to where it seems tanks are either Slaying or Fending). I almost thought about trying to make a Healadin (with Cure and Clemency), but the thought didn't pan out when I investigated it more, due to the inability to get substantial amounts of Mind on a DoW class.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

And I apologize for the double post, but my god, the 1000 char limit killed my original post T_T. Had to shorten it by nearly 3000 characters.

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Protip: if you edit your post, there is no limit. :)

People already have a conniption when tanks sacrifice piddly stats like det for parry, i can only imagine the next-level rage upon witnessing a sacrifice of infinitely more impactful primary stats like str and vit for dex of all things.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

I'd thought about something like that, as well. Alternate tanking methods are fun, but it's a bit of a shame how much they restrict stat customizability right now (to where it seems tanks are either Slaying or Fending). I almost thought about trying to make a Healadin (with Cure and Clemency), but the thought didn't pan out when I investigated it more, due to the inability to get substantial amounts of Mind on a DoW class.



Protip: if you edit your post, there is no limit. :)

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Thanks :P This post was my 1st one, so I didn't know how to bypass the 1000 char limit yet. I've learned :D

And I tried the whole healadin thing... I was very sad with the results :(
But I did do about 400 ish heals around lvl 44ish. Be interesting to see the results if I really focused some armor stats... might try it again anyways, but yes, i doubt it'll be very effective. Still fun to be different though ^^

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

People already have a conniption when tanks sacrifice piddly stats like det for parry, i can only imagine the next-level rage upon witnessing a sacrifice of infinitely more impactful primary stats like str and vit for dex of all things.

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Yea, when I was looking up info, apparently I was reading all outdated stuff to top it off :( But if the dex boost rate was high enough, it could of been a fun experiment. Not saying I'd be running into raids with it.

This thread is a good example of some of the issues with the current meta though, not wishing to hijack it.

Yes, the suggestion Malicewolf made was completely impractical, but it's clear he was coming from a background from other MMOs where tanks are expected to... well, be tanky, and stack some kind of tank stats. Parry and Block are IN the game, they're a mechanic, there are stats that (tooltips say) increase them, there are abilities that proc -after- a parry/block. Makes sense.

I don't think you can blame a new player for being a little shocked that not only is Dex a bad choice (even before the nerf to it affecting avoidance) but that pretty much ANY tank stat in general (Parry/Vit) are to be ignored in the most part in favor of purely things that affect DPS.

The problem isnt purely that this is what the meta is - that's how it is, and we adapt and gear accordingly. The issue is that until you reach close to endgame there's literally nothing in the game itself other than just talking to other players that shows that the DPS>>> tank stats thing actually exists. If the game is going to stay as it is balancewise, it needs to more clearly nudge tanks into the direction that explains and highlights just how important dps stats are.

One more problem that would accrue with the bock-paladin is that there is basically only one shield per highest ilvl, or 2 shields with same bock stats. This game lacks in the disparity of gear per ilvl, along with the twisted meta, as mentioned on a post before me, to be able to do anything outside of the defined norm.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

This thread is a good example of some of the issues with the current meta though, not wishing to hijack it.

Yes, the suggestion Malicewolf made was completely impractical, but it's clear he was coming from a background from other MMOs where tanks are expected to... well, be tanky, and stack some kind of tank stats. Parry and Block are IN the game, they're a mechanic, there are stats that (tooltips say) increase them, there are abilities that proc -after- a parry/block. Makes sense.

I don't think you can blame a new player for being a little shocked that not only is Dex a bad choice (even before the nerf to it affecting avoidance) but that pretty much ANY tank stat in general (Parry/Vit) are to be ignored in the most part in favor of purely things that affect DPS.

The problem isnt purely that this is what the meta is - that's how it is, and we adapt and gear accordingly. The issue is that until you reach close to endgame there's literally nothing in the game itself other than just talking to other players that shows that the DPS>>> tank stats thing actually exists. If the game is going to stay as it is balancewise, it needs to more clearly nudge tanks into the direction that explains and highlights just how important dps stats are.

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Not a problem, I loved your post on the tank meta that you put out. I was still a new player trying to figure out how and where I could improve my game (as well as be a bit different than norm). I originally came from guild wars, so tanks were... well, tanks. But I quit playing that nearly a year ago and never picked up another MMO in the meantime (then FFXIV happened... help me ._.)

But it is true. There is nothing that really leads new tanks in the direction of what they should build. That may have been done on purpose so that players aren't "told" what they should do to play and could do whatever they wanted. But the issue is that the other stats have pretty much become null. Vit and Str are pretty much the only 2 to choose from that have any real affect (and we all know the argument between those 2 stats).

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

The problem isnt purely that this is what the meta is - that's how it is, and we adapt and gear accordingly. [...] If the game is going to stay as it is balancewise, it needs to more clearly nudge tanks into the direction that explains and highlights just how important dps stats are.

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Personally, I think they need to change up the meta. I never tanked in the base game (I was playing WoW at the time), but I hear there was a better balance in terms of "tankiness vs. dps". Sometimes, WAR would drop tank stance to push phases, but PLD were the tanky MT and such. The way I hear it, there was basically a 65%/35% ration for PLD/WAR actively tanking. (My research shows around 2.2 or so.) I think we need a better balance like that, where the MT has to be all SHIELDWALL.

Sure, big numbers are great (and I love going nuts with FC on my WAR), but there should be fights where I can just there and feel tanky. I do kind of miss that a bit. Hell, the way it is now, no tank worth their salt even bothers with Fending right side. We all know why, so let's not rehash it.

In the future (think 3.2)...I think a good balance of "dps check" (where tanks can go nuts and blast the numbers), "turtle tank" (where we hunker down and focus on def; think a fight where patience is more important than pushing phases), and "weird but interesting mechanics" (think something like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iUsfw6RzZ4). Right now, as we all know, most of the fights are basically the 1st option.