FFXIV Rocks ...

... Because they got the tank right. They have created a tank class that you enjoy playing.
I always hated being the tank in MMORPGs their class were the most boring to me, especially in FFXI.

That is why I started FFXIV as an Arcanist and later became a Summoner, because they seemed the most interesting to me at the time because of their DoTs and since I always played the caster/pet controller type in all RPGs since the days of Diablo.

I recently changed class to WAR due to all the good things I heard and also since I wanted to feel needed (DF Adventurer in need), got it to lv 39 and I have to say, I LOVE MY WAR and MY TANK.

This is the first time I play a tank and I love it (since they can even do solo content with decent DPS) so kudos to you devs kudos to you SE for getting the tank class, just right and making it enjoyable.

Much love.

Just wait until you're wrecking shop at 60.

Wait 'til 60, they said. It'll be fun, they said. (Oh, god...)
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/353...ied-face-o.gif






On a more serious note: When you do get to lvl 54, you get Fell Cleave. You'll love it. It's the new finisher for our dps stance (Deliverance, which we get at 52).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVcMcd1rj7Q

tanking in ff14 is the best... i only ever tanked in dCUO. and all u were was litterally a punching bag... use a move and hold block, occasional lunge and repeat.
I love how tank feels like a dps with defensive capabilities.

I certainly feel FFXIV has done a great thing in making tanking appeal to players who otherwise wouldn't gravitate towards the role, as it's a very aggressive DPS-centered playstyle.

I'd personally sadly counter the OPs point and say that in its current state, tanking in FFXIV is very unappealing to me (a career tank across multiple MMOs for 10-15 years now) and I'm considering swapping away from it if it doesn't change in the upcoming raids. I do know I'm in the minority for this viewpoint, but I really detest how tanks here are forced to focus almost exclusively on improving their DPS output at the expense of their toughness. I do it, but begrudgingly.

I'm the kind of player that gets far far more satisfaction from eating a huge tankbuster and see my health bar barely move, rather than one who enjoys huge attack crits or topping DPS meters. There's very little involvement in the damage mitigation aspects of the game in FFXIV, compared to something like TERA where you were literally pinpoint-timing blocks to match ever single boss's attack animation every second or two (a good tank in Tera that was super good at timing blocks/dodges would literally take zero damage in a fight and allow the healer to focus on improving party dps, a bad tank would eat hits to the face and crumple). Obviously very different combat systems, but the feeling still applies.

I still main Paladin here, and do enjoy it above other roles, but there's this nagging feeling that FFXIV doesnt have the mechanics or systems to let me feel like I'm improving my tankiness and the meta forces me to gear up and play in a way that puts far more onus on the healers. It's a shame there's no real compromise, because if they made all the fights in FFXIV be entirely about timing mitigation abilities and gearing up to be that immortal brick wall, a lot of players would be turned off tanking because they couldn't do their aggressive DPS-stance tanking that basically IS playing a DPS class who happens to pop a tank cooldown at scripted points.

I applaud the devs for making tanking appealing to more players than the average MMO, but sadly the current state of tanks is very unappealing to a select few tank-focussed players who actually -like- being the immovable wall and punching bag. We're the minority though.

Warrior is amazing at level 60. I'm a former paladin (MT'd all the Coil trilogy as PLD), then switched to WAR for the 3.0. Best.decision.ever! DRK is actually fun to play too. I've been tanking in a lot of MMOs and I like the way tanks here can do more stuff than just tank. I love the idea how they can try to maximize their DPS as they balance it with their mitigation skills. You feel truly useful for your group, no matter which job you play, either if you're maintanking or offtanking.

I just started playing FFXIV a few days ago, got my Warrior to lvl 39 today, and it's been extremely fun so far! Gotta say the tanking experience I've had in dungeons just gets better by the level, and now I'm so eager to try out the endgame stuff.

Also, question about the Tank's DPS state. Are there any specific parts to the Warrior gear that should have DPS stats at all time, or is the gear gradually switched depending on specific boss encounters and/or going from progression- to farm-raiding?

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Originally Posted by Hurp

I just started playing FFXIV a few days ago, got my Warrior to lvl 39 today, and it's been extremely fun so far! Gotta say the tanking experience I've had in dungeons just gets better by the level, and now I'm so eager to try out the endgame stuff.

Also, question about the Tank's DPS state. Are there any specific parts to the Warrior gear that should have DPS stats at all time, or is the gear gradually switched depending on specific boss encounters and/or going from progression- to farm-raiding?

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The general arrangement for Warrior is to put all of your Stat Points into STR and get 3 STR, 2 VIT accessories.
Avoid Parry where possible due to RNG.

But don't bother with this until level 60.
From 1-60 just take the items, that gives you a better ilvl, it doesn't matter if it is VIT or STR.

For Raids, I would like to see that VIT becomes the most wanted stat for Tanks during Progress and switching to STR during farm raiding. Actually it is to much STR dependend, to match the tight enrage timers.

For the leveling game, I will actually firmly agree with OP. Playing any of the tanking classes while on the road from 1-50 is fantastic, and is hugely satisfying to my tanking itch. Enmity is compelling (but manageable), mitigation can be challenging (but not horrible), and generally the damage you output is yeah, pretty good (doesn't feel neutered during leveling like pre-6.0 tanks in WoW). Even 2.0 endgame and 50-60 feels pretty good right now, and casual content is in a pretty good place, I'd argue as a career tank. The problems that people are describing are in the hardest of the hard content right now: Alexander: Gordias Savage, where DPS checks are extremely tight, and tankiness isn't rewarded in the slightest (and this mentality is unfortunately beginning to trickle down to more casual content). But this may change in the future.

But kudos to you, OP. Not everyone who enjoys something will come to the forums and post about it, let alone in such a positive manner. Keep doing your thing; may your healers have your back, may your loot always drop, and may your DPS never pull.

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Originally Posted by ZanderJS

Avoid Parry where possible due to RNG.

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People really need to stop saying this...

To quote a good guide:

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Parry is better the more you MT, DPS is better the more you OT…

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Parry has its use. Just because idiots go, "RNG!" does NOT mean parry is useless. Do you consciously stack it? No. But neither should you completely avoid it.

Also, Hurp said he's 39 (as of yesterday, which means he's probably in the 40s now). Gearing isn't a huge concern until 60.

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Originally Posted by Ralvenom

Parry has its use.

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https://youtu.be/HUXck-0vh5k?t=896

It's by no means useless, it does... something... but if you could have any other stat over Parry, you'd want to take that. When leveling secondary stats literally don't matter at all, but it does matter at 60 and it's good to know how useful those secondary stats are at cap. Parry, as a secondary stat, isn't very good.

Also, can you link this guide? I'm curious to see it.

e: Nevermind, found it (http://www.ffxivguild.com/ffxiv-tank...-vs-dps-stats/). It basically argues that "the more you tank, the better Parry becomes" - which is... sort of true? It does get more use the more you tank because when you're not tanking it's literally doing nothing. However, the way that Parry works as a secondary stat is that it increases how often you Parry point for point - which sounds great! More Parry = less damage taken = less healing needed. But it never actually works out that way, because not only is 99% of a fight auto attacks (which are healed through Fairy heals + Med2 + Regen alone) but you have to consider what you're trading off in place of that Parry.

Unless it's more Accuracy than you need for that fight (which is actually worse than Parry as it literally does nothing at all), then you're sacrificing damage in place of random chance mitigation. The RNG nature of Parry and the encounter design in XIV make it inherently worse - you can't rely on it to work against a tank buster or a cleave (unless using Raw Intuition, which makes Parry as a stat even worse for WAR) whereas you can rely on Det, Crit, and to a lesser extent Skill Speed to increase your overall damage. The quicker the thing dies, the less damage you take, and the less big damage your healers have to deal with overall. Parrying a move is amazing, Raw Intuition is a fantastic CD, but Parry as a stat just... doesn't really work well. It's better than nothing at all, but there are always better options unless that particular gear piece has high enough main stat that downgrading simply isn't an option and you can only get the same main stat from a piece of gear with Parry already socketed into it.

... Basically, Parry isn't the worst, but there are better options for secondary stats always, whether you're MTing a lot or OTing a lot.

I actually really like that article, because it brings up good points: stats like those are situational for tanks, because their usefulness is entirely dependent on what you're doing, and on the encounter.

I think this lines up with the discussion on the current paradigm/meta pretty nicely, as well, and suggests that it's an encounter design problem more than a tank design problem. Parry is (basically) useless in A1-A4, because of the overwhelming majority of attacks that bosses due are magic-based (which is why DRK is so swanky right now, and why PLD is so...not). And with the tight tuning of the DPS checks (without a corresponding increase in incoming damage), more tanks are spending more time out of their tank stances, even while holding the boss. The article suggested this was a Bad Idea, but since it's the current accepted tanking gameplay paradigm/meta, it devalues Parry and Vit in favor of DPS stats.

There's also the fact that enmity gameplay is still a thing, and more DPS means more enmity, so if all you're doing is your Extreme Roulette, there is some value to having those extra DPS pieces anyway (even at 194 in mostly Slaying accessories, I've had times where a savage-geared SMN will pull everything off me but the mob I'm targeting). For the most part, Parry will help you survive those dungeons (and big pulls) better, but most healers will be able to keep you up in there without much problem once you've gotten to ~170+ levels of mitigation.

I'd need to crunch numbers, but I do wonder if healers can outdo tanks for DPS in their DPS stances.

In 3.1 and beyond, though, we may see a shift in this design in high-end raiding to where having tankier tanks is desirable, and career tanks would probably welcome it.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

... Basically, Parry isn't the worst, but there are better options for secondary stats always, whether you're MTing a lot or OTing a lot.

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Indeed, but eschewing gear because it has parry on it is often dumb, especially since that gear may actually be BiS. There are, however, people who throw out gear because "OH, NO! PARRY", when they failed to consider things like accuracy on said gear. (A chunk of 77 or 86 acc frees up other gear so you don't have to stack as much acc.) However, parry does need a serious redesign.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

I certainly feel FFXIV has done a great thing in making tanking appeal to players who otherwise wouldn't gravitate towards the role, as it's a very aggressive DPS-centered playstyle.

I'd personally sadly counter the OPs point and say that in its current state, tanking in FFXIV is very unappealing to me (a career tank across multiple MMOs for 10-15 years now) and I'm considering swapping away from it if it doesn't change in the upcoming raids. I do know I'm in the minority for this viewpoint, but I really detest how tanks here are forced to focus almost exclusively on improving their DPS output at the expense of their toughness. I do it, but begrudgingly.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/NTsguqm2UlYJi/giphy.gif

3.0 Warrior FTW! #4Life

(in keeping with the original post format)

....Because of the amazingly intricate and fun crafting system. No other game comes even close to the crafting in FFXIV.

I miss Ninja Tanks from FFXI. I always felt godly whenever Utsusemi absorbed a huge tank buster. Wish they'd bring that mechanic back somehow.

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Originally Posted by Satyagrahi

(in keeping with the original post format)

....Because of the amazingly intricate and fun crafting system. No other game comes even close to the crafting in FFXIV.

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FF14 crafting is interactive WoW crafting. Don't try to oversell it. Better crafting systems in MMOs have existed that completely blow it out of the water.

"Black Mage has learned 'Rain on Parade!'"
"But Black Mage can only know four moves."
"Delete move to make room?
1. Fyre <=== ?
2. Bleeza
3. Thonda
4. 'I lagged'
5. No."

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Originally Posted by Maikeru

Warrior is amazing at level 60. I'm a former paladin (MT'd all the Coil trilogy as PLD), then switched to WAR for the 3.0. Best.decision.ever! DRK is actually fun to play too. I've been tanking in a lot of MMOs and I like the way tanks here can do more stuff than just tank. I love the idea how they can try to maximize their DPS as they balance it with their mitigation skills. You feel truly useful for your group, no matter which job you play, either if you're maintanking or offtanking.

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Did you switch because you wanted to or because your group felt the "first month world progression fever" allllllll the other groups had? Because as it stands now the timeframe for pld to be "useless" is over, now the only time you NEED a war/drk is if your dps aren't fully utilizing their 200 set.

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Originally Posted by Nomad-phx

Did you switch because you wanted to or because your group felt the "first month world progression fever" allllllll the other groups had? Because as it stands now the timeframe for pld to be "useless" is over, now the only time you NEED a war/drk is if your dps aren't fully utilizing their 200 set.

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Do make note though : when 3.2 arrives and the NEXT Savage raid content arrives... the same thing will happen, unless something changes. Looking at the possible Paladin buffs in 3.1 along with a slightly different direction that favors higher tank damage in encounters and less extreme dps checks.

If 3.2 arrives and the balance hasnt shifted, Paladins will be shunted to the wayside on the early progression exactly like they have been in 3.0. For many that wont matter but for any groups wanting to push the second instance of Alex hard on release, DRK/WAR is probably going to be the go-to again unless the designers change philosophy.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

FF14 crafting is interactive WoW crafting. Don't try to oversell it. Better crafting systems in MMOs have existed that completely blow it out of the water.

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It's much better than WoW crafting. WoW crafting could easily be maxed out in 30 minutes, provided you had the mats. And those "better" systems are usually overly complex and painful. FF14 strikes a good balance between the 2.

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

If 3.2 arrives and the balance hasnt shifted, Paladins will be shunted to the wayside on the early progression exactly like they have been in 3.0. For many that wont matter but for any groups wanting to push the second instance of Alex hard on release, DRK/WAR is probably going to be the go-to again unless the designers change philosophy.

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There is some talk that the devs are going to make Alex Pt. 2 have more physical dmg. I think they realize that having (mostly) magical dmg kind of screwed over PLD hard.