Just looking for a general consensus;
I've always run DPS...like forever always, but I'm interested in learning both other roles.
Wanted to start with tanking.
Thing is, the pressure that seemingly comes with it is slightly terrifying. So;
Best Class for Beginner Tank,
and
Best way to learn to tank properly without pissing anyone off?
Thank you :o
Considering Tanking
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10-13-2015, 09:47 AMJojociitaConsidering Tanking
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10-13-2015, 09:52 AMEye_GoreDon't worry about this one, seasoned tanks still piss people off, it should be a cross class ability of tanks. Even if no one says anything, they are mumbling, there is always something someone doesn't like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojociita
PLD is the easiest to learn, simple rotation and some good defensive abilities. -
10-13-2015, 09:53 AMFridgePanic
This is a terrible haiku. The format is way off.
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10-13-2015, 09:53 AMJojociita
What side jobs are best to master with PLD? Rather, which skills should I be aiming to unlock to be most effective? = u=
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10-13-2015, 09:58 AMEye_Gore
Have to level conjurer anyways to unlock PLD, so you'll get some of those abilities., the only other cross class is marauder. Me personally never bothered leveling marauder, haven't needed any of those cross class skills, not to say you don't need them, I just never had them. Though I don't do any of the end game heavy hitting stuff.
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10-13-2015, 10:40 AMRocond
Just do it. There is no pressure that comes with tanking. That is a myth. It's one of the easiest things you can do in this game.
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10-13-2015, 10:59 AMWhiteroom
Its good to get both of them high enough for the cross class at least. PLD is nice and safe, aggro is a bit of work until you get shield oath at 40. Flash is your best friend starting out.
WAR is more fun than PLD though. I like it a lot. DRK is a lot of fun too, mp managment takes some getting used to.
Be kind to your healers, remember your cooldowns. Don't use the DOW armor, get the tank gear. Do conservative pulls until you get used to your class. -
10-13-2015, 11:46 AMSeku
MRD is the easiest tank to learn on, get GLA high enough first for flash to make your pulls a bit easier. Than spam Over power a few times. Let your tp build back up. Rinse repeate. Don't do it on bosses however and use your normal
Good skills before your job crystal
Invgorate - DRG's tp restore, good for OP stam
Raging Strikes - ARC damage buff.
Blood for blood - Use this only when you understand tanking and the limits of your healers or pairing CD's to mitigate some of it's effects.
Other than that level the sub jobs for the particular job up to max so that you'll have them when you have to use your soul crystal.
Oh and....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPAJtvy1uL0 -
10-13-2015, 11:55 AMFridgePanicNone of the tanks are able to cross-class any of those skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
Edit: Oh, before job crystal. Nvm. -
10-13-2015, 12:09 PMClaire_Pendragon
Each tank is "easiest" in its own way imo.
PLD teaches you threat better than the rest, because you ride that line far more, where as u can goof around on WAR or DRK, and hold hate, and not know what is the absolute best way to get threat back, in case of emergency.
PLD has more straight forward tools for mitigation.
BUT... you can go into a dungeon, as a WAR, and have an easier time with threat, but have a harder time with cooldowns/mitigation. (Most ppl sacrifice mitigation anyways, and just go for damage.)
And then there is DRK... you can pretty much do everything the other two tanks do at lower levels. Run up, spam AoE, replenish MP on the last mob.
You have straight forward mitigation, and straight forward threat, and produce a lot of it... but you have less cooldowns for a logn while, and eventually DRK becomes more complex, as u watch a lot of off the GCD attacks, plan which to use on what enemies in what scenario, all while riding your MP nearly dry...
BUT... if you simply want to learn, and dont plan to master any tank... Maybe DRK. (Technically all of them work for different reasons)
If you just leave ur tank stance (Grit) on, but do NOT use your DPS stance (Dark Side) you can pretty much play like a PLD, and just hold threat a HECK of a lot better. (Honestly is the easiest way to tank of the 3, but of course you are purposely limiting yourself, and the groups maximum potential)
WAR will need to eventually learn to conserve TP and not spam AoEs (unless you have a BRD/NIN friend) while deciding if its better to do more dmg, or mitigate dmg. (most healers complain about WARs being hard to heal, since most WARs choose to use abilities for their offense, rather than their defense)
PLD just AoEs, and Regens MP.
Or Rage of Halone Combo on single target. (or spread once u spamed Flash a long while. Though this isnt "technically optimal, just about every group will think you're an amazing PLD, despite not playing at your best.)
I did that as GLA, simply due to having any cross class ability i wanted, and knew my threat was bad at lower levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by FridgePanic
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10-13-2015, 12:15 PMAtoliWAR has a way more complicated rotation than PLD. It is hard to keep that up while also making sure you keep aggro on all mobs and managing your defensive cooldowns if you are someone who is just starting out as a tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
It's kind of incredibly pointless to level dps classes for skills you can't use past lvl 30....Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
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10-13-2015, 12:24 PMImoenI feel like all the tanks are similar especially early in the game, (Pick what sounds interesting.) then they get their own identity later in the game. I'm not sure of your general knowledge of the game so if you know any of these things, just ignore. I don't know why people say "so and so tank is easier" they are all relatively the same early on. Try them out, find the one that fits a playstyle you like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jojociita
-Flash/overpower/unleash, Use them often when you first get started but watch your resources.... going crazy with these can put you in a bad position. As you get more experience you will get a better idea of when and how often to use these. PLD(MP from flash is an issue early on) DRK (Unleash MP issues early as well) WAR (TP issues from overpower early.)
-Cycle through targets often, to check threat levels...be ready to get it back with Provoke if you lose something.
-Provoke (gladiator skill - no matter which tank you choose, pick this up) ... learn how it works, This is honestly the most miss-used skill out there from new tanks. It does NOT generate enmity, It only puts you at the top of the list, you HAVE to follow it up with an enmity generating combo or ability - if you do not, you will lose the target again fast. It does nothing for you at the start of the fight when you are grabbing mobs... with that said it does have a longer range than most the ranged tank attacks, if you use it to grab something far away... make sure you are ready for someone else to pass you in enmity on that target and any chained to it.
- watch your healers MP, most you run into will be able to keep moving, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't watch it.
-Don't blow your Defensive Cooldowns before the fight starts (unless you are doing a very large pull where you will take many hits before you settle.)
-Test the STUN abilities, a lot of moves can be stunned, learn which ones you can and which you cant and which ones you should stun or just dodge/ignore. With that said, some dps like to use their stuns for extra damage, causing the mob to build up a resistance to stun BE READY to move just incase that stun gets resisted.
-A lot of casted abilities can be stopped by breaking line of sight with the target. Thunder spell as an example.... you can walk through the boss to it's backside to break line of sight and interrupt the cast (some bosses have an exception to this and you can not dodge it)
-then obviously, I think this goes without saying, but just in case... read the tool tips for your abilities.
Honestly, tanking isn't that difficult, the only thing that makes it difficult is the people, things like 2 melee dps attacking 2 different monsters at the start of the game when you are new can be a real handful (even some later) or that bard that shoots the next room full of mobs before you are ready... and you have no MP/TP to pull hate off them. don't let them discourage you.
Anyway that is my quick start guide. lol -
10-13-2015, 12:49 PMSekuRaging strikes takes like...5 seconds to get. Since the person already said that their a DPS the chances of them having said skills is pretty high since quite a few classes take LNC as a sub job, if they were 100% new you'd be right. :) but in case they have one of 5 classes up those abilities will aid them greatly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
WAR's rotations don't get complicated until 50 and in dungeons you basically spam Over power until about 50% before going into single targeting...and WAR's rotation isn't really that complicated even at 50. The -10% damage isn't going to make that much of a difference on a boss nor would it prevent any good healer from DPSing, so really they can just spam Butcher's block combo and not care. T
Combo rotation 1 -> Combo rotation 2 -> Combo rotation 1.
Which @ 50, if they can't do said rotations, they should go back and level up another tank until they can, because all tanks from 50 on get more than one rotation. ;o
Before 50...
PLD is harder due to the sucktacular hate generation and doesn't get it's Tanking stance until 40 thus it's DEF is based on it's long cool downs and isn't up 100% of the time.. Have fun spamming flash and then going into playing wack-a-mob if you get any half way decent DPS. Can be done but hope you're good @ switching between mobs, checking individual hate on each mob, and dodging stuff all at once.
DRK has a lot of oGCD's and DA makes quite a few moves "use version A in X situation and use Version B in Y situation but only when I have W MP so I don't run out of MP for dark side."
War you just...spam over power. Hate is set. Only hard part is learning when to save stacks, use unchain, and iron beast which isn't really required with the job (at that point) and you an quite literately run through (not sprint) while spamming OP -> AFK for 10-15 seconds come back to a angry healer for having to spam cure on you due to being afk (if you want). Oh and Over power requires you position right, which is why I've suggested flash until they've gotten the hang of keeping all foes in front of them in a cone.
End Result: MRD/WAR allows you to set hate easily while introducing minor resource management in the form of TP. This allows you to focus on learning how to position correctly and how to time dodging attacks so you can move back into place without moving the mob but can be taken further and easily be a strong AoE job early on and in fact is among the few classes that gets it's AoE ability at a early level allowing for it to burn through mobs quite easily while keeping hate.
They are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imoen
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10-13-2015, 01:05 PMImoenlol Indeed, all 3 of my tanks hotbars are laid out pretty much the same, few exceptions for higher level abilities, but that's about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
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10-13-2015, 02:37 PMxenowind
Basics:
1. learn additional skills
2. Meet Equipment Lv for instance before engage
3. Understand your job, how to hold aggro on single target, and multiple target
4. Know how to pull groups with ranged enemy within
5. Don't forget Shield Oath/Grit/Defiance
6. Rotate defensive cd to mitigate damage
7. Control position, minimum movement to dodge aoe, return to original position usually
8. Don't waste dps ground aoe
9. Combo switch target to hold aggro
10. Check distance and height with healer, object like wall between can interrupt heal cast
Advance:
1. Level healer and dps class to learn their nature
2. Understand how many aggro will each of you skill generate, calculation method
3. start to pull multiple groups, rotate defensive cd and hold aggro
4. understand instances, use environment that can add debuff on enemy, and use line of sight track to control ranged enemy's position
5. learn enemy rotation, interrupt cast if possible
6. Wait for party mp/tp recovery
7. Offer simple guidance to new players
8. Ensure your action is clear, pull or not, message healer if you are going to bigpull and use hg, or you need aoe limit break to support big pull
Master:
1. Learn all jobs' single and aoe rotation, strength and weakness
2. Check party members' status, their ilv, their leveled jobs, and determine pace
3. Know how to speed-run all instance
4. Interrupt all enemy casting, work with dps to interrupt, inform dps if boss can resist stun after 3 times, who's going to in-charge, etc
5. No over aggro, maximize your dps, switch to sword oath to help dps for example -
10-13-2015, 09:53 PMClaire_Pendragon
I'd also like to point out "Learning HOW to tank" and "learning to master your classes unique mechanics" are not in the same.
I always suggest DRK because its easier to learn to tank, if you're worried.
I always suggest PLD because its the easiest to master, when it comes to its "mechanics". (Which it pretty much has none.)
WAR is easier to access than DRK, and takes its place in "easier to learn TANKING". (Though ive had a LOT of ppl quit WAR, because they couldnt line mobs up for overpower, and just wanted a circle AoE instead.) -
10-13-2015, 10:01 PMSpookyGhost
Pick tank you like -> Queue for dungeon -> Wing it.
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10-14-2015, 01:02 AMArkenne
Keep your gears updated, no matter what. Specially the weapon.
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10-14-2015, 02:05 AMExodus_Kenpachi
Man there is some horrible advice in this thread. Protip: Ignore anyone who tells you about "iron beast" or says things like "just spam *insert AoE emnity move here."
If you are going down the tank road just be aware our job is a thankless one and comes with more pressure than DPS roles, but we also have AWESOME que times and finding statics (granted Im on Gilgamesh) is easy as hell.
Also join team WAR. WAR is life. -
10-14-2015, 02:11 AMIagainstiThe OP asked which tank is easiest to begin on, which is MRD hands down. The rotation for Warrior does not get complicated(if you can even use that word to describe it) till lvl 50, when you now have to balance aggro/SP and SE properly. For starting out, MRD has highest single target enmity will skull sunder and Overpower is, well Overpowered.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atoli
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10-14-2015, 02:12 AMSekuYes...because single targeting your way through trash pulls is the best way to go.....oh wait...it isn't. ;( Well...unless you're a pld.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus_Kenpachi
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10-14-2015, 02:15 AMMclyde
I tank a lot in this game and other mmo, and i think players are right to criticize their tank when he doesn't make his job correctly. And it's not 'cause there is not a lot of Tank that damage dealers should just agree and thank.
Personnaly i'd suggest to begin to tank only after you learnt how the healing and DD job work. The big picture is that you have to pull according to your dd teamates skill (you quickly understand if they now how to deal with a large group of mobs) and according to your healer gear/skill too. In addition you have to use your CD to always save you healer to have to spam heal on you. He's a potential damage dealer too. He can even make more dps than you if you let him the time to. And if your healer doesn't dps at all, it means that maybe he wouldn't be able to spam heal you correctly.
So tanking = manage the size of your pull to pleaze your damage dealers and manage your CD to not be spam heal.
Your ability to maximize your own dps is important too but it's not your priority (Paladin cycles are really easy to understand) -
10-14-2015, 03:24 AMExodus_KenpachiNo. But spamming overpower until 50% is a terrible idea and a great way to produce shitty DPS. Any more emnity than absolutely needed is a waste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seku
On large trash mobs I will overpower twice to establish hate, then get Maim up, build stacks on whatever my melee is focusing, Raw Intuition+Awareness, Deliverence, bloodbath, Berserk, Decimate, Infuriate, Decimate, then overpower my face off until berserk is up.
Your goal as a tank is not to ONLY hold hate and survive. It is to also pump out as much DPS as possible to clear the trash quicker. -
10-14-2015, 06:12 AMImoenWell considering this person hasn't played tank, doing that is a starting point, as I stated in my post watch your resources, the fine tuning of figuring out the exact line it is ok to lay off enmity moves is something you learn as you go, when you first get started just keeping the mobs on you is the more important lesson. Once you learn how to do that, then you can take the next logical step.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus_Kenpachi
Learn to hold mobs > experiment with doing other things WHILE holding mob -
10-14-2015, 06:32 AMExodus_KenpachiI agree. But telling someone to "overpower and then go afk, come back and overpower some more," maybe use "iron beast" (Inner Beast) occasionally, and that all a WAR (and other tanks) have to do is Butcher's Block over and over again is setting the guy up to fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imoen
Basically I hate when shitty tanks start spouting guides to beginners about how to become shitty tanks. -
10-14-2015, 06:36 AMImoenQuote:
Originally Posted by Exodus_Kenpachi
:O someone said that !? LOL
I must have missed that bit. welp, ya don't do that lol -
10-14-2015, 06:56 AMRocheKatYou need to be 50+ before you can do this... not exactly learning to tank at this point. Also you said spamming Overpower is stupid but then say you spam overpower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus_Kenpachi
Warrior is hands down the easiest tank to learn until 50+ because of overpower + flash. At 50+ I use Pld to learn fights and then switch to war/drk and the reason I do that is Pld is much easier to get away with making mistakes. -
10-15-2015, 04:41 AMExodus_Kenpachi
You use overpower in any large trash mob while having a Berserk, a defensive CD, Deliverence, Bloodbath, and Maim up because it is a huge DPS increase, you will mitigate just fine, and wil self heal for way more than you could by single targeting.
This is a world away from telling someone to sit in Defiance and spam overpower until things are half dead and then maybe throw some BBs around and use an "iron beast" occasionally.
And trust me. At 50+ PLENTY of people are still learning to tank. Fuck I see my fair share of people at 60 attempting Savage who barley understand the concept.
A tank who simply holds hate and only uses their emnity combo does not know how to tank.