I'm a full STR 192 DRK, Stats included and I'm looking to tank A1S for the first time. I can do a1-4 norm. I'm looking for some advice on a few things:
Can't afford pentamelded so how many slaying vs fending accessories should I run? Do I need to reinvest all my stats into vit?
What's a good amount of total HP to hit before I can invest into Str again?
Any tips on when the best times to drop tank stance for a bit to dps would be?
Does the oppressor use royal fount at all the same times as on a1 normal?
And just any random tidbits of advice you can give me that will make this easier on myself and my team. I'm confident in my damage output (in full STR atleast, never had to try anything else so far ) and I'm confident in my cool down rotations except timing Dark Mind since not many bosses have magical tank busters but I atleast know when to pop it in a1 normal
Tanking A1S first time
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10-08-2015, 02:17 AMMeow9000Tanking A1S first time
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10-08-2015, 02:33 AMSpookyGhost
30 STR always.
3 Slaying / 2 Fending or 3 Fending / 2 Slaying, depending on what you're more comfortable with.
13500-14000+ is good for A1S, could probably even get away with less.
The only times you'd want to be in Grit is when you're getting hit by the tank buster, and that largely depends on what mitigation you're using.
http://imgur.com/Csnxu1p
Play safe at first, don't try to do anything fancy. As you get used to the fight, start taking risks and figure out what your (and your healer's) limit is.
I don't play DRK so can't give any DRK specific tips, but I'm sure there's people more qualified who can. -
10-08-2015, 02:56 AMRalvenomUm...why would you not just dump it all into STR? What theorycrafting justification is there for JUST having 30?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Pretty hard to have less than a 14.5k HP pool in 190 gear...Quote:
13500-14000+ is good for A1S, could probably even get away with less.
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10-08-2015, 03:01 AMKali-ka
I was actually going to make the same thread, except to ask for WAR advice since I just switched to WAR from DRK for my current static.
But to echo Spooky a bit, yes all STR in attributes, 3 slaying, 2 fending is what I would suggest. One thing though is I probably would go with 15000 if your healers/static is brand new to A1s until everyone gets their bearings, then go more STR from there.
CD usage is pretty straightforward. I rotated shadow wall and shadowskin for tank buster + DA dark mind + delirium + reprisal from dark dance. Dance has to be cast early before the tank buster in order to trigger reprisal and of course its not 100% so you will have to play around with the timing. I usually have the SCH healing me and with all of that and SCH shields and debuffs, I've seen sub 5K tank busters which is always nice.
Stance dancing is another thing. Again if your healer or party is new to it all then you would just have to see what their trends are and how/when they're topping you off. I had a huge problem with this when I first started A1S since my healers were learning the party and would kind of let me sit at low HP either right before or after the tank buster. So while learning I mostly stayed in grit until they were more comfortable with everything then started dropping it here and there. Never got a good flow of it though since changing statics (and now tank jobs).
Now to hijack your thread haha...I need some WAR tips on stance dancing and CD usage. I'm full deliverance up until .5 comes out and I voke the main one and pop vengeance. Usually I have infuriate up around this time so I double FC then go into defiance. I use HG on the first and third busters but still try to have IB and SP up on them. Or should I just stay in deliverance the whole time since I'm using HG and switch after while using conv + equilibrium? Do most people just go back to deliverance after they're healed up or stay in defiance until jump? And what do you all use on the non HG buster? -
10-08-2015, 03:02 AMBrannigan
Drk has it easy peasy in this fight. Tank busters are 2 minutes apart so you should have plenty of stuff for each of them. You can use Dark Rampart early in the fight and have it back in time for the first buster. If you feel like it you can Living Dead the 2nd one and use your cooldowns elsewhere, but it's not necessary. Remember to start fishing for parries and use reprisal/delirium ~20s before the tank buster. As a paladin with ninja/full str I can run sword oath from the beginning and I'm pretty much fine on hate, but it's probably better for dark knight to start out in grit just so they don't have to do as many power slashes over the course of the fight.
It's been a while since I've done it on drk, but you might as well toss out a non-DA dark mind on pull for the first royal fount. Probably some time around the first Resin Bomb is a good place to drop grit. -
10-08-2015, 03:08 AMEvae
Personnally I use 1 slaying ring and all other accessories Fending, and i keep grit on all the time. Still able to do 650 dps which is more than enough as the main tank. If you can do around 600 dps and your team doesnt meet the dps check, you need to get another team with better dps.
Keeping grit on and having more HP allow your healers to do more dps.
In my team, if I take off grit after doing a power slash combo, there's a chance the war while pull the hate. Your job is to tank and keep the hate. Around 600 dps is enough, let the rest of your team do their job. And if you can't do 600 dps with fending accessories and grit on, your equipment isnt the problem. -
10-08-2015, 03:08 AMSpookyGhostI clearly meant 35 or w/e the maximum is... but ok. :V It's been 30 STR capped for 2 years now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralvenom
Correct! However! That is the minimum required! Anything above that and you're golden! Alright! Cool!Quote:
Pretty hard to have less than a 14.5k HP pool in 190 gear...
Only time you need to be in Defiance is on the 2nd Plasma.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali-ka
For the first one you want to use RI + Foresight + Awareness once you've 'voked Oppressor, then roll Vengeance so that it clips into when you'll get hit with the 2nd cleave, then roll Thrill + Conv before you get hit with the 2nd cleave, and finally Holmgang + SW the Plasma. Rest of it is just tanking in Deliverance with no CDs but not much really happens past the tank buster except the final cleave.
2nd one you want to go into Defiance ~20s before the Plasma with 5 stacks, pop Unchained, build 5, then pop Veng + Thrill + Conv so that they catch the cleave and the Plasma, IB the cleave, Infuriate, IB the Plasma, Equilibrium, and go back to Deliverance. You can also just IB the Plasma and keep Infuriate for a Fell Cleave, but that's up to you.
3rd one is the same as the first, your Veng and Thrill + Conv timings might be off if you pop them later on the 2nd one, but that's really it.
Oh, also, small tip: go into Defiance once the jump has happened. Your SCH can get a boosted Adlo on you and Deployment Tactics it to everyone else, negating a lot of the jump damage. -
10-08-2015, 03:21 AMEvae
About your cooldowns, on the first tank buster, I activate Shadow Skin while he's charging Hydrothermal Missile, to lower dmg before tank buster and make it easier for my healer to keep me fully healed. Then as soon as he does the blue lazer cleave attack, i activate Dark Arts + Dark Mind and Shadow Wall. Hypercompressed Plasma does around 6k dmg.
On the second tank buster, almost the same thing but I activate Foresight along with Shadow Skin, then Dark Arts + Dark Mind, Shadow Wall is still on CD.
Then on the third, do the same as the first. -
10-08-2015, 05:40 AMRhazeCain
(from perspective of WAR offtank)
I usually start in DPS stance, Defiance when Resin Bomb comes, then back to DPS stance way after the tank buster (Hypercompressed Plasma) and a Gunnery Pod. After that Gunnery Pod you have about 15s to DPS before jump.
Certainly you could push more DPS than this, but why? My group is going to destroy it long before enrage and this method puts most of the big hits during tank stance. Also I run 1 of the lesser cooldowns pretty much full time while in DPS stance. If your group is actually hitting the enrage, sure push harder for DPS.
For cooldowns I usually watch the animation of bombs descend and hit Vengeance/Thrill of Battle a few secs before Hypercompressed Plasma starts casting. This is because their refresh is exactly as long as the 2 mins between tank busters. Wouldn't want to be there the next time clicking 1 sec before refresh. Not sure what the DRK equivalents would be, but I'm sure there is some cooldown to use. -
10-08-2015, 09:07 AMSapphidia
Just a minor point - generally everyone is correct in that you can get away with a lot less HP as a DRK, so probably only want to wear 1-2 fendings at max, or even go full 5x slaying if your left side gear is decent.
That said, if you're going into A1S with a static group for the first time, with everyone new to it, I'd actually suggest more fending at first. Pile on 4-5 parts on your first few pulls purely to get your healers a bit of leeway with seeing things. In my experience, the trickiest part of learning A1S as a group is the healers getting used to the Preys into Tankbuster with all the other damage flying around. Having 18k+health for this means you'll likely be able to learn this part of the fight quicker, as once healers are fine with the timing you can drop the training wheel vit and go much more glass cannon.
Tanking A1S is really very simple - it's the healers that have the difficult job as they have even more mechanics to avoid and lots of damage spike/aoe cooldowns to keep track of. You'll probably find yourself having a quicker learning if you make their lives easier at the start until at least 2-3 decent pulls where they've seen all the timings. If they're already experienced in the fight of course, then by all means go Slaying from the start.
It's certainly not optimal, and you WILL want to drop to more slaying once your team has seen most of the fight, but don't be afraid to go into a -new- encounter with more vitality than you need just to aid in seeing mechanics. You wont need to worry about the DPS requirements of the enrage until your group can comfortably get past a Jump phase without any deaths, so may as well make the initial learning smoother. -
10-08-2015, 09:58 AMFreyyy
What I personally do as a DRK MT on A1S is that :
First I pull with Grit on and my opener is this : DA pre-pull, Unmend + Plunge -> Scourge + Carve & Spit + Dark Mind for the Royal Fount -> Power Slash combo while weaving Salted Earth, Dark Passenger and Low Blow. Reprisal if proc, Dark Dance if not, in order to make it proc. Don't forget Bloodbath and Blood Price too. After the first Power Slash, I do a Delirium combo, another Power Slash, then drop Grit, pop Shadowskin and go full banana sandwhich Blood Weapon Dark Arts Souleater everything. Don't forget to refresh Delirium if you have no MNK in your party. If you have one, use Delirium only if you want to regain MP. Never use Souleater without Dark Arts. Don't forget to use Sole Survivor on an Alarum whenever it's available.
When 0.5 spawns, we do the technique where the OT provokes the original Oppressor and the MT goes to the other side of the room because he already has initial aggro on 0.5. (I think everyone is doing that now, seems to be logical). Make sure to apply Delirium first when you have your boss for Gunnery Pod because both bosses are doing it at the same time. I still don't have Grit on, I use Shadow Wall during the Resin Bombs because there is a Royal Fount and big laser to dodge right after, and it can be tough for healers to dodge all the stuff back-to-back while healing you taking a Royal Fount + auto-attacks out of Grit. So Shadow Wall helps a lot here and your healers will tell everyone that you're the best DRK out there. After that it's some auto-attacks (You should pop Dark Dance here), then Gunnery Pods, then Hydrothermal Missiles. You want to have Grit on a bit before Hydrothermal Missiles, use Shadowskin and Convo right when the cast bar starts, Blood Price should be up and in the case you're targetted by the missiles it's delicious free MP, use Reprisal as soon as you get a parry, try to get DA + Dark Mind right before the Royal Fount because it will last long enough for the Plasma. You should have an Adlo, Plasma will not hit you for much. Immediatly drop Grit when you're healed after the Plasma. From here the boss hits like a wet noodle until the last Royal Fount right before the jump. Your healers should be aware of it and not be surprised from that last damage spike. Turn Darkside off when the bosses are in the air, BRD should be using MP song here so you'll be completely full MP when the bosses get back down. Just don't forget to immediatly turn it back on when the bosses land. For the second Plasma, I use Living Dead, so I don't even bother turning Grit on at all for the entirety of this cycle. Shadowskin, convo, Reprisal and Dark Mind can be used to mitigate all the other damage to fully compensate your lack of tanking stance. For my static, the bosses die during the fluff damage time after the Plasma, before the 2nd jump. But when we still got 3 Plasmas, I was using DA + Dark Mind for the last Royal Fount before the 2nd jump so the SCH didn't have to turn off Cleric Stance to carry me. Turn Darkside of again, get dat MP, turn it back on when the bosses land, then this time it's the exact same thing as for the first Plasma. If you ever get to the 4th Plasma (enrage is right after), you can have everything up again except Shadow Wall so you'll have no issue surviving it, but as of today you should really not see that 4th Plasma unless there is multiple deaths amongst the DPSes.
Gear-wise, for AS1 I use absolutely 0 VIT. I run it in full slaying with 35 STR allocation. This puts me at around 16k HP with party/food buffs. The first time I did this fight I had no more than 15k HP (with 3 slaying and 2 fending and Alex NM/augmented law gear) and it was already enough.
Hope this helps. -
10-09-2015, 01:45 AMExodus_KenpachiFirst and foremost you should be pulling 1.0. Do the typical Unchained+Zerk double Fell Cleave opener and then stay in Deliverance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali-ka
After my opener I pop vengence for 1st Royal Faunt, I use Bloodbath and Foresight on CD, I use ToB+Convo after resign for second Royal Faunt.
I stick with that rotation for the opener, 1st Buster, and 3rd buster. I pop Infuriate on CD after I burn a FC and I try to time it at about the 10 second mark of Eye debuff so it wont fall off.
To help your healers during 1st and 3rd buster I will typically Definence midway through Prey, Unchained, Zerk (it should be off CD), take hit, and then use Equilibrium. This gives the healers a lot of breathing room and you can go straight into back Deliverence.
For the second buster I will save an Infuriate, Defience at mid Prey, Vengence as soon as I get in Defience for the Gunnery Pod, Storm's Path, and then IB. After I take the hit I Equilibrium, ToB+Convo and then go into Deliverance.
With that roation you will have a CD up for most major hits and will not tax the bananas off your healers. You will also be able to keep up max deeps.
As for keeping Path up. Path is one of the best utilities WARs can bring and for some crazy ass reason people will overlook it for the added potency of Block. This is stupid. Try to have Path up for Royal Faunts and Gunnery Pods. Your healers will thank you.
Also to answer the OP. You want 14500 HP for A1S, full STR gear, and your 35 points into STR. This hold true for A2S.
For A3S I will run 4 STR and one VIT to put me at about the 17K HP mark.
The biggest issue you will run into later on is hitting your accuracy cap. So make sure whatever combo you choose for your accessories you are hitting those caps. -
10-10-2015, 02:14 PMSyzygianA lot of the people commenting have this shit on farm and then some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meow9000
If this is your first time raiding at this level, I'd avoid going full STR. If you aren't clearing, your DPS is meaningless - All that deeps is 100% wasted until your party is consistently performing mechanics and making it to enrage, etc. i.e. deeps doesn't matter until you're in range of clearing the fight in terms of knowledge of mechanics and skill in executing them. The boss has a rotation that it does not deviate from (and neither does the .5) and he does not do anything in particular at a certain threshold of HP, so you cannot push phases so to speak.
Oppressor's autos can crit for 4-5K. The TB in A1S hits for 25K unmitigated. You can easily cut that more than in half with DRK CDs, and even with DA DM and SS up it can hit for over 10K *that's with Grit*. If you are not topped off or adloed/sskinned it'll kill you in full slaying if your healers fuck up like, at all. To avoid that during progression, I'd wait to go ham on the slaying gear until after your group is successfully getting past the first jump at least.
The prey mechanic that comes seconds before the TB can target the MT, causing you to essentially eat a moderate physical TB, a cleave, and then a massive magical TB in the scope of about 12 seconds.. You risk a wipe if you are not topped up and ready to take the TB when it casts. If you want to almost guarantee your survival to the extent that your healer can practically have a sammich during the TB cast, so that your party can learn mechanics (you have to deal with very, very few as a tank in here, its damn-near a 100% tank-n-spank): I would keep Grit up during progression and use a rotation of SS+Conva+DD at the prey missiles, if you get a Reprisal proc hit it (very likely) and then DA DM and SW immediately after the following cleave before the TB cast. You can do this for the 1st and 3rd TB with the same group of CDs minus SW for the 2nd, mitigating 90%, 60%, and 90% (assuming Reprisal uptime) of the damage, respectively. The 4th is enrage iirc. The CDs for the 1st and 3rd can actually mitigate the damage all the way to zero if you catch a well timed crit Adlo or Adlo+SS. This CD rotation is dated now that we are overgeared, but its still very good at keeping you alive so that your party can focus on learning the mechanics.
When you're close to clearing, I'd equip slaying gear until you are at about 15K before food. This is enough to survive comfortably and not die to a stray crit-auto attack afterwards.
Good luck, respect the fight 'til you clear, then faceroll it once a week for great justice and l00t.
P.S. As far as the opening, feel free to tank him where he is if you're MTing, and have your OT voke and pull south while you stay put at the split. Pulling him south at the start of the fight gimps the openers of your DPS while they wait for you to get it into position. Its much easier to have a huge burst and maximize opener DPS if you tank it in the north until the split. This is the exact opposite of what A1NM df groups do, so just be aware.
Also, feel free to solo-tank Faust+adds so your OT can go full-on deepzbeastmode. DRK is very good at it and its cake at these gear levels. -
10-10-2015, 03:25 PMSandamar
I personnally main tank as a warrior. I use 4 slaying and 1 pentameld now.
I open with the usual MT opener and when berserk fall off i go in deliverance until the Split.
Then i do my triple fc combo under berserk and i swap in defiance plus vengeance got each tank buster (vengeance Is up for every buster So why bother ? ) then i go Back to deliverance after the buster and i only go Back for next buster.
This rotation allows me to always triple berserk fc When the jump Is over. -
10-10-2015, 03:44 PMImoenUH, well I'm a pld, but I got hit for 18k with sentinel up .... and I have 17k hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Unless that was some crazy off the wall crit thing that I will never see again. -
10-10-2015, 04:23 PMBrannigan
You can probably skate by with just Sentinel but I tend to favor using rampart + sentinel. 18k through sent sounds like your dudes had a damage stack (or two) or your buffs fell off before the attack registered.
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10-10-2015, 06:28 PMFreyyyYou either hit the Sentinel button too late, leading in the attack registering without mitigation, or your bosses had damage stacks from being too close. Anyway as a PLD you have no reason to not use Rampart + Sentinel for these tank busters because they're 2min apart from eachother. But even with only Sentinel, taking 18k is definitely not normal. And tank busters cannot crit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Imoen
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10-13-2015, 06:47 AMImoenWell in fairness, it was our first run through, I knew it had a tank buster but I wasn't familiar with the damage of it, ya i totally stack rampart and sent now lol However I think you may have been right, been watching the video over and over and I think it was just a server tick thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freyyy
Or it was a lag spike w/e I just know the icon was there and I took that much damage. lol I haven't encountered it since. (Hard to tell since I only have the video from my point of view. I'd have to see it from another members point of view to know for sure.) I can say for sure there was no damage buff on boss though.
Good to know about the tank buster thing with crit though, didn't actually know that. Then again I rarely pay attention to damage logs.
Anyway I digress from OP