My five-member static recently started in on Bismarck Ex. We've read the guides and watched the videos, and learned that a good rule-of-thumb as to whether you'll be able to meet the Suna'wa DPS check is whether you can take down Bismarck's chitin in one go. Depending on the pick-up members we get, we are generally able to do so.
What we can't understand, though, is why WOULD you? If you burn all your cooldowns cracking the chitin, you have nothing left for the DPS check that's actually going to kill you if you fail it. Wouldn't it be better to take the chitin down to, say, 10%, dismount, and finish it on the next go, giving everyone's cooldowns a chance to recover so they can use them on the Suna'wa?
Or is the one-shot rule presuming that you take the chitin down in one go without using any cooldowns at all? If that's the case, I guess we have a long way to go.. What sort of ilvl should we aim for in order to put out that kind of damage?
Question on Bismarck Ex regarding one-shot chitin
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10-02-2015, 01:13 AMLineageRazorQuestion on Bismarck Ex regarding one-shot chitin
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10-02-2015, 01:21 AMAlex_W
I thought that the one shot of the Chitin was required to meet the enrage DPS check of the fight, not necessarily just for the Suna'wa. I know that when my group did Bismarck EX, we one shot chitin and we're fine on the Suna'wa. I definitely used cool downs on chitin, but I don't recall what my other static DPS did. Sasly, I have done BisEx in quite a while and may have forgottwn most of it. Hope this helps. :/
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10-02-2015, 01:48 AMMetalwrath
If your party is having to blow all their cooldowns on the Chitin at start there is something very wrong.Either your dps are under performing or your not geared well enough for the fight.Eg people with i170 weapons and i200 armor.
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10-02-2015, 02:23 AMJamillion
Pretty sure Alex is right, also, when I cleared we popped all cds on the chitin and killed the snakes without issue. The real problem is killing the adds before they destroy the island though.
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10-02-2015, 02:27 AMDelta041
I always assumed you 1-shot the Chitin to limit Bismark's damage on the island.
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10-02-2015, 02:30 AMVeloxBismarck drops i175 weapons so it's tuned to be doable at i170. DPS were probably underperforming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalwrath
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10-02-2015, 02:33 AMDante_V
We beat this below 180, used all cooldowns on his back and had very little issue with the elementals. Sounds like the dps are underperforming. If anything the higher current ilvls would make not having cooldowns for the very beginning fb the elementals easier. But as far as the OP goes they will come off cooldown during the elemental phase for use so you shouldn't be without them the entire phase.
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10-02-2015, 03:22 AMMalevicton
you don't necessarily need to one shot it, but realistically you should. With how the stacks work if you jump off the first time you'll have to skip the second one, meaning the island will take 3 charges instead of 1 (So "Wouldn't it be better to take the chitin down to, say, 10%, dismount, and finish it on the next go" doesn't really work out that way). That's still okay assuming the dps is good in the last phase; it doesn't guarantee a hard enrage, especially since the shield will mitigate some of the damage for phase 1.
The problem is if you have to do it that way, instead of choosing to, then it's probably because your dps is not solid, so the "assuming dps is good in the last phase" bit kinda falls apart. -
10-02-2015, 05:15 AMLollie
Could also be a timing issue. Assuming you know the Suna'wa need to die relatively close to each other how that mechanic actually works is.
You get 3 cycles on the buffs to kill them, or whenever the next cycle comes up if one of them is dead the enrage goes of. If you are killing one right before a rebuff and one is still alive, that is a problem. -
10-02-2015, 06:04 AMLineageRazor
Well, DPS underperforming is definitely a problem at this point, largely because our DPS are spending a lot of time dead and our tank swapping is clumsy to boot. We're fresh to the content and still learning it, so it's not as though we've hit a wall or anything. We'll get it with due practice, I have no doubt.
What I wasn't certain of is why even practiced parties would use their cooldowns on the chitin when it seems much more logical to use them on the real threat. From the answers in this thread, it seems that these are the reasons:
- If you can one-shot the chitin with cooldowns, don't worry, you have enough DPS to take down the Suna'wa even without cooldowns.
- Mount stacks make two consecutive mountings awkward.
- Bismarck gets another hit on the island, or two if you skip the second mounting to avoid stacks.
Seems like a decent explanation, and that's what I wanted to learn. Thanks, all! -
10-02-2015, 06:29 AMFebrusYes, yes, and more yes. Keep in mind as well that, depending on the CD and what job of Dps we're talking about, your Cd's will rotate back up during the Snake phase anyway. Not initially, but the phase is long enough that you should get one more good burst. Monks and Drg, for example, can pop extra crits pretty quickly. So no worries. So, popping your Cd's on the Chitin is not a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
For your Tank swaps, tell your tanks to keep an eye on their current Debuff (I know, that sounds like "well, duh'" advice, but that's not what I'm getting at).
Tank Dps should not be the fallback of the group, so what they want to do is watch the timer on their current debuff. When the timer drops below 5 seconds, they should start paying extra attention and use the time efficiently. That means that they have to get to their 2nd or 3rd tier of their enmity combo prepped and ready and then STOP Dps'ing entirely (even go so far swap targets in advance [not secure aggro, just target in advance], just in case) until they know what Debuff they are going to have next.
I know, most people would say "Stop Dps during a Dps check?!? That's crazy!" But, it's not. The reasoning here is twofold. 1. If they have to swap snakes and mindlessly keep outputting dps, they stand to take a sizable hit for hitting the wrong target, which puts unnecessary stress on the healers. 2. More importantly, IF they have to swap snakes, they will have a 2nd/3rd tier combo at the ready. That means that when they pop their Provoke on the opposite snake and run over, they can instantly secure aggro with their next combo strike. This makes for a very smooth transition (assuming they dodge the twisters that are flying around). If they get a repeat debuff, no worries. Just continue dps'ing as normal and don't sweat it. Even if one of the two Tanks accidentally jumps the gun and provokes, you can instantly take the aggro back by having that 2nd or 3rd tier combo at the ready.
Knowing how long it takes to successfully use a full 3 part tank combo is what makes this kind of timing work. Depending on skill speed, most tanks can cycle a full 3 tier rotation in around 7 seconds, so that 5 second mark on the current debuff is the failsafe. You don't want to go too far below it, or you risk being off GCD when the swap happens, but you don't want to stop too early, because you risk loosing the enmity bonus on your combo. They'll have to get a feel for how much time they have based on their own speed. -
10-03-2015, 07:21 AMraelaYeah, took me a few weeks to get through with PFing half the party. If someone died it was pretty much a guaranteed wipe due to dps checks, but not one shotting the chitin was a good clue to poor dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor
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10-03-2015, 02:49 PMReinfeldIf you pop the shield the island doesn't take any damage. The point of killing it in one go is mostly a DPS check...and so you don't risk someone missing the shield and letting it take unnecessary damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta041