BRD/MCH Discussion Questions

Hey everyone,

I run a small podcast and I'll be featuring a couple of really awesome BRD/MCHs on the show to discuss the jobs. I'm looking for whatever input I can to make the show as interesting as possible - so I'd like to know what are points you would like to see discussed between top level bards and machinists? Thank you for any and all input!

-Differentiation between MCH and BRD gameplay, the implementation of GB/WM on both classes (since they are fictionally the same ability).
-The effects of WM on BRD's 2.0 skills, traits and animations (especially the waist-down clipping on windbite and empyreal when you use another oGCD right after)
-The Implementation of MCH and their ammo mechanic.
-Scrapping of "different attachments" and "ammo usage" mechanics for MCH.

These are personally my biggest points of discussion as a former full-time BRD and current MCH main.

I can't imagine but so much to talk about. RiceisNice pretty much summed up most of the discussions BRD and MCH have. WM/GB really is the biggest debate and what is splitting the support DPS community. That alone is pretty much a long discussion in itself, because there are good points to be had and bad in their implementation.

-Which fights in the game favor one job over the other and why?
-how is itemization treating both jobs this raid tier? Does one job have an easier time shedding skill speed over the other while maintaining the accuracy cap? Is it even an issue?
-are there any fixes or quality of life changes you'd like to see?


Personally I'd just gloss over wanderers minuet and gauss barrel because all discussion leads to butthurt over something that is here to stay. At most I'd just cover anecdotal situations where it is okay to drop either temporarily.

Looking forward to the show!

Why doesn't MCH have a self healing skill?

Kittararae, I love you in the most not-weird way possible for that.

In case anyone was still interested, Frosty's BRD/MCH show aired on monday and you can watch it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u3xXemllzM


Great discussion from top tier players on all the issues and intricacies of the classes.

Skimmed through it. Between MCH and BRD having WM/GB, I still feel like that WM just causes more problems for BRD in the long run compared to adding anything meaningful in relation to MCH, after listening to how MCH can bank their QR cooldowns and hold procs to still remain motile, while BRD is more stationary.

Their competition of roles could be comparable to that of a BLM/SMN (or even melee if you to make that jump). Their purpose is to dps, but how they come across that is different, in both their sustained dps (DoTs and aetherflow timing vs enochian and astral/umbral cycling) and burst through cooldowns (Derpwyrm vs ley lines sharpcast usage).

In regards to BRD/MCH, I honestly feel that the differentiation only really comes from their burst (Beethoven simulator for wildfire VS stacking cooldowns for empyreal barrage), but beyond that, their down-to-earth sustained dps becomes incredibly similar with each other, movement from instant casts aside (which only really matters for some of the end game encounters, and negligible in everything else). The turrets really don't really mean much as far as gameplay is concerned (you have very little interaction with it) as they're mostly place-and-forget (especially when center placements are enough to cover the entire boss platform for the regens).

They could have very well kept MCH as the motile class with BRD being more stationary (assuming they fix the procs and oGCD clippings), but realistically speaking , the mobility itself doesn't account for a whole lot if it becomes something like a toggle stance (the class should innately restricted in mobility, like BLM), because giving that sort of stance (to both jobs no less) really kills the differentiation and homogenize the two even more when one aspect (where you're forced to move to deal with mechanic) isn't present. They had mentioned that previous encounters encouraged BRDs to deal with mechanics, but they're the ones that a SMN can do just as effectively (t7 renauds) or the entirety of the time the BRD themselves is incredibly gimped in dps (T12 bluefires). Tl;DR : Mobility should not be the thing that sets the difference between two jobs, let alone MCH and BRD who are innately motile and gain a stance that somewhat strips of them of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

snip

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Some minor tweaks would be nice to balance BRD and MCH better, but I think in terms of preference in who you want in your progression group, both do just fine. It really depends on party composition at the end of the day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FrostyTV

Hey everyone,

I run a small podcast and I'll be featuring a couple of really awesome BRD/MCHs on the show to discuss the jobs. I'm looking for whatever input I can to make the show as interesting as possible - so I'd like to know what are points you would like to see discussed between top level bards and machinists? Thank you for any and all input!

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Watched the show, enjoyed it, subscribed and looking forward to future ones :).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Some minor tweaks would be nice to balance BRD and MCH better, but I think in terms of preference in who you want in your progression group, both do just fine. It really depends on party composition at the end of the day.

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Because they're both feasible, it should ideally come down to play style defense. Just that the two don't have much of that when you take a look at blm and smn

i Hoped we could have finished the show after all the questions were done :(
The best questions were saved for last, and hopefully there's going to be a part2.

Nice show. Very amusing to watch.

Glad you had Aiurily there for the more technical aspects of the classes.

Although I'm not fully convinced about the stat choices per class.
http://cdn.guildwork.net/albums/imag...61d1aaf79f.jpg

Here's a graph I've been working on to compare the differences between each stat scaling.

For the majority of fights, Bard is consistently around 90%GCD/10%oGCD skills (Comparing Bards on fflogs.com for the endgame fights)

MCN is generally around 70%GCD/30%oGCD/Turret

@ Available stat values (+400) - BRD DET is worth 5.49%, where SPD is worth 5.787% - > Crit is no question on being better

@MCN - with SPD @ a value of 4.522% @ +400 (6.43% * 0.7) - it is, and will remain the lowest value stat for MCN until you can reach +1300 at which point it will become equal.

Crit/DET are pretty much equal in the current values available to us on gear for MCN. Crit will give stronger burst where Wildfire is concerned due to Reassemble and any possible crits during Wildfire, due to increasing the Crit Multiplier and having so many buffs available during Wildfire, but DET will give higher sustained damage for the whole fight.
I.E. if you want to show off on youtube how you are doing 10k Wildfires then just stack a bunch of crit and post your luckiest run, but plz don't depict it as the norm.

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What is special about SPD on BRD?

- In Wanderer's Minuet - Bard has no AA and thus their damage ratio is altered only by the % of oGCD skills for the number of skills that are not effected by SPD.
- SPD Alters the AA -> WS Ratio while not in WM

AA = 100 Potency @ 3s intervals. In order to equalize the AA-> Ratio to give a value to WM, you need to adjust the AA value to the GCD value.
i.e. @ 2.3s GCD AA = 76.67 Potency

(Increased Action Damage does not effect AA Damage)

HS (WM) = 150 Potency (1.2)(1.3) - 234 Potency Combined
HS (non-WM) = 150 Potency (1.2) 180 Potency + 76.67 ((100/3) * GCD) = 256 Combined

2.00s GCD Comparison
HS (WM) - 234 Potency Combined
HS (non-WM) = 150 Potency (1.2) 180 Potency + 66.67 ((100/3) * 2.0) = 246 Combined

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But you might ask, being out of WM is still a DPS gain of 12 Potency when you consider AA's. But due to how BRD plays and works with Crit, what you would realize is that with an increased # of BL procs you will need to be in WM 100% of the time, due to the WM effect on BL being more than the loss of AA damage. By increasing SPD you are reducing the time that you are not using any BL procs because the Recast is also reduced with SPD. So, once you reach a certain level of Crit, Bard will be unable to "Dance" out of WM, regardless, and SPD will decrease the benefit that "Stance Dancing" would have anyways by reducing that AA->WS Ratio while in WM.

People may think that SPD will cause BL proc clipping due to reducing the GCD and reducing the time you can use an oGCD between the Cast/Recast time.

2.5s GCD - 1.5s Recast = 1s
2.0s GCD - 1.2s Tecast = 0.8s

At this extreme of a reduction your window for oGCD skills is only reduced by 0.2s, which is not enough to cause clipping for a single oGCD skill. But on the inverse, if your BL procs just as you use your skill then you are 0.3s closer to being able to use it than with a base GCD.
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Information on Bard Crit

I took the original slope for the % of Crit Increase and altered it with these two variables

- Straighter Shot = +10% Crit Chance - Due to the Variable Crit Modifier that was introduced in 3.0, this Buff can alter Bards average damage @ Base of 4.5% (10% @ 0.45 Modifier) up to wherever we see the level of Crit go in 3.0. (I estimate we will see values of 1000 @ 1.68 Multiplier) -> Increasing Straighter Shot to an average in crease of 6.8% +2.3% from Base
- Blood Letter - Calculated Increase to average Potency/s per Proc chance. Does not include Data for Rain of Death, but this increase would be much much higher than BL alone.

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Main significance of Stats

- Crit -> Exponential Scaling - Effects all damage
- SPD -> Exponential Scaling - Only effects Dots/GCD Skills
- DET -> Linear Scaling - Effects all Damage