Change monk "fists of ____" please.

Right now you pretty much put up fire and forget about them. It is rare that earth will save you from something that wont kill most of the other dps/heals anyway and wind doesn't make you run fast enough to make a difference in boss fights since the areas we fight in are small... also shoulder tackle.


I have seen a few suggestions I like and have some of my own...

Option 1: Our main AoE attack is earth and arm of the destroyer looks like it could be earth related. I think going with that theme it would make sense to give Fists of earth a damage bonus to our AoE, a TP reduction on our AoE or some combination of the two.

Then add a skill speed bonus to Wind. To balance this with Fire we would probably need some of our overall damage pulled back out of GL and put into Fire.

The idea here being Wind for getting GL up and Fire when you can keep it up. Then Earth for when you need aoe damage.

Option 2: Remove fire and add that damage back into GL or wherever is needed to keep our damage at the same place it is currently. This would leave us with being able to choose between Wind and Earth which is far better than our current options because the current option isn't really an option. Fire is best almost always.

Option 3: Remove fire and add that damage back like Option 2. Add "Fists of Water" with the effect of a small % snare and threat reduction.

Option 4: I saw someone else suggest this and it sounds great however for it to be balanced we would have to have some of our own damage nerfed and I don't like that but.. Change our Fists into group buffs related to what they do for us. Short duration buffs with a cooldown or permanent buffs. Pretty sure this would make monk required for raids and that isn't what should happen.

Option 5: Remove them all. I like the animations and the abilities sound cool but the majority of their use is when I am bored waiting on people to finish their cutscenes.


The Fists are not in any way game breaking but they are something that should be looked at. I am sure lots of people have lots of ideas on how to make these better... pretty much anything except fire all the time would be better imo.

Wat. Have you stepped into Savage (or even Coil) or PvP? The 10% damage reduction is pretty significant when you're taking unavoidable damage in magnitudes of 5k or more. It's not killing dps regardless of now, but it's still pretty damn helpful to lessen the burden on your healers.

Mobility is also pretty important when avoid some mechanics during periods of time where you can't attack (or sprint for that matter) and especially in PvP where only ninja at the moment has a natural increase to movementl

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Wat. Have you stepped into Savage (or even Coil) or PvP? The 10% damage reduction is pretty significant when you're taking unavoidable damage in magnitudes of 5k or more. It's not killing dps regardless of now, but it's still pretty damn helpful to lessen the burden on your healers.

Mobility is also pretty important when avoid some mechanics during periods of time where you can't attack (or sprint for that matter) and especially in PvP where only ninja at the moment has a natural increase to movementl

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Have YOU stepped foot into savage? 5% damage is WAY more important than movement speed or damage reduction. Magnitudes of 5k or more? Try 8-12k raidwide damage. The thing is, if you need FoE to survive, you messed up somewhere. If you need FoW to do a mechanic, you need to just move faster. I see the point you're trying to make, but it's just wrong.

Isn't FoE for soloing, like Titan-egi, and not really meant to be useful in group content? And FoW is just for running around when not doing instances, just to get around faster. Not all skills have to be useful in all contexts. Just about every class has skills that aren't that useful 99% of the time in a PvE raid, trial, or dungeon setting. I mean, when's the last time you've seen Freeze used outside of PvP, or Sneak Attack in a 50+ dungeon/raid/trial, or Tri-bind, or the binding ninjitsu, or stone I when stone II is available, and the list goes on... useful skills in the right situations, sure, but those are few and far apart, and it doesn't break those classes to have rarely used skills.

Is MNK broken in some way? Is there some issue with the class that you think needs to be resolved? If so, then changing underused skills to correct that issue makes sense. If not, then why change those skills? If the class is balanced without the changes, then giving skills a buff means giving others a debuff to maintain balance. If there's a balance issue you're seeing, that's another story.

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Originally Posted by Renault

Have YOU stepped foot into savage? 5% damage is WAY more important than movement speed or damage reduction. Magnitudes of 5k or more? Try 8-12k raidwide damage. The thing is, if you need FoE to survive, you messed up somewhere. If you need FoW to do a mechanic, you need to just move faster. I see the point you're trying to make, but it's just wrong.

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Because you can't attack the boss during the likes of landing phase or Phase 4 earthshakers in T13. Not to mention Fists are oGCD so you can swap it on the fly and mitigate a party-wide buster if given the chance. FoE is far from useless and FoW has it's application, which the OP seems to disagree on. If you can help the healers in one form or another without being detrimental to your own damage, there's no reason not to (and honestly if you're doing 5% less damage for 3 GCDs and that leads to a hard enrage, then dps as a whole needs to improve.) Especially if you're a progression group where it's more valuable to get through the fight mechanics (surviving preys, minimizing the needed outgoing heals) and see the enrage where you can then fine tune and improve dps.

Personally FoW is just for getting around slightly faster when not in a fight though if i noticed I took slightly longer than usual to start moving somewhere I do stance dance between Fire and Wind at that particular time (though rarely occurs). Tbh a disciplined Monk should be responsible enough to stance dance FoE for mitigating BIG unavoidable damage at downtime regardless if you'll survive without on top of popping mantra and working on chakra and FS (Ravana Ex w/vuln stacks on during big damage or A1S jumps are perfect examples). When I switch to a healer's perspective in raids it's a definite reminder of that when dealing with follow up damage and noticing dead dps who aren't disciplined with their B4B as another example. All other uptime/cases belong to Fire 100%.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Wat. Have you stepped into Savage (or even Coil) or PvP? The 10% damage reduction is pretty significant when you're taking unavoidable damage in magnitudes of 5k or more. It's not killing dps regardless of now, but it's still pretty damn helpful to lessen the burden on your healers.

Mobility is also pretty important when avoid some mechanics during periods of time where you can't attack (or sprint for that matter) and especially in PvP where only ninja at the moment has a natural increase to movementl

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Actually Ninja does not have increased movement speed in pvp if they have Kiss of wasp or Kiss of the viper activated.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

snip .

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One person taking 10% less damage during an aoe is not "helping the healers"...They are going to AOE heal you anyway. I'm in a progression group (Nearly done A4S) and I can tell you that not once has our monk changed his fist. It's the healers job to heal, the monks job to dps. They don't need help, but the boss does need to die. There is not a single mechanic that monk should be doing in the current content that your suggestion is useful.

It's really silly how everyone wants every skill to have use in a raid. Lol.

Let's change Haymaker and one ilm punch too

Don't need to change One Ilm Punch, just let it actually be used >__>. I was amazed you could use it on the final boss in SV HM, and haven't really used it since =\

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Originally Posted by Renault

One person taking 10% less damage during an aoe is not "helping the healers"...They are going to AOE heal you anyway. I'm in a progression group (Nearly done A4S) and I can tell you that not once has our monk changed his fist. It's the healers job to heal, the monks job to dps. They don't need help, but the boss does need to die. There is not a single mechanic that monk should be doing in the current content that your suggestion is useful.

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Not so sure about that. That's like saying taking 10% less damage from int down from DK or Delirium doesn't matter or isn't helpful for personal survival (obviously helpful to the raid in general). Though I mainly refer to FoE during downtime since for uptime other tools like 2nd Wind and Bloodbath (or foresight if u happen to have it cross classed tho I don't cross it) are definitely preferable while maintaining uptime. I would say just don't ignore your tools all together.

But DK is raid wide, FoE is single person. I dont see how the two are remotely connected? As for BB and Foreseight, yeah they have uses but in Savage, its not going to help healers much, simply because others are taking the same damage so all are receiving the AoE heal.

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

But DK is raid wide, FoE is single person. I dont see how the two are remotely connected? As for BB and Foreseight, yeah they have uses but in Savage, its not going to help healers much, simply because others are taking the same damage so all are receiving the AoE heal.

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Actually I weave in BB during my opener on A3S after Touch of Death to counteract the AoE splashes coming up in the 1st phase after the protean waves since my B4B is up that whole time and the buffer hp generated at the end keeps me up and I can still save 2nd Wind for later (our BRD dies often with his B4B up during this time mainly from mistiming his 2nd wind during the splashes). And of course DK is raid wide (tho will fall off if during long downtimes so no one get's that) but that plus FoE at downtime is 20% self mitigation total. I find that's not something to outright ignore. Sure you get the AoE heal (buffed by mantra) but you'll be topped off more smoothly without an extra cure sent your way if ur still hanging close to 80% health and/or survive a gimp from additional damage in certain situations by the time you stance dance back to fire at uptime.

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Originally Posted by Renault

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Just because it is their job to dps does not mean they can't take precautions to help healers by helping themselves. This includes mitigating AoE damage where it is not avoidable and you can't hit the boss, not just in alexander but this existed in coil as well. This sort of thing includes skills like second wind and crossing foresight and blood bath as an extra skill slot

Again, I'm on the side of, if you're clutching on a 5% damage increase on two GCDs to meet an enrage, then the party dps as a whole needs to improve. Even for a progression party because its far more important to survive and see all the mechanics and then finetune the dps where you can (getting greedy with dps, tanks swapping accessories, healers contributing, etc).

If you're hitting enrage and at that point you have to squeeze out every bit of damage, then sure but that's not even the perspective I'm coming from.

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Originally Posted by KaosPrimeZero

But DK is raid wide, FoE is single person. I dont see how the two are remotely connected? As for BB and Foreseight, yeah they have uses but in Savage, its not going to help healers much, simply because others are taking the same damage so all are receiving the AoE heal.

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I'm not getting topped off by AoE heals when we're eating something like landing phase, but during those periods of time I don't need to stay topped off because there isn't much outgoing damage afterwards toward the raid. You'd only need a basic cure to top off the remaining players, which is far more mana efficient than using medica/cureIII again (not to mention freecure procs).

Not to mention if you really want to break it down, using BB and second wind on examples like A3S's second splash to minimize the outgoing healing needed (if not need it at all) allows for healers to opt out to dps instead. There's no harm in mitigating damage when it won't hurt your dps output, espesically when you can manage to push the threshold to where it can equate to a cure or two and allows healers to dps/DoT during that time period.

Reducing raid wide damage on your self does little because everyone is getting healed. Those random big hits of unavoidable damage are almost always instant hits so you have no warning on those... so FoE doesn't work their either. All abilities do not need to work in raid... but they should be somewhat useful especially since one fist is almost always used and the other two almost never. Right now if SE removed earth and wind no one but monks would notice. If fire was removed every single person running a meter would notice... some would notice without meters.

Use in PvP would be a good argument if pvp had any real value in FFXIV. Its a tacked on mini-game good for glamour and not much else... even worse at 60 since no one does the 4 man stuff anymore.

The fists are fine as they are.

I want a fists that increases tp cost for 15-20% more damage

Fist of Fire and Earth is good where they are right now. Fist of Wind tho.... is there really a movement speed boost? I honestly dont see it.

How are the fists in a good place right now? I don't wanna complain about them, because there are a lot of boring/useless skills in the game... but I can't really say the fists are any good.

Wind is useless for obvious reasons.

Earth is not useless... but it's near useless actually.

If you change to FoE when you're attacking something, you're just losing out on DPS, which is more important. Ofc surviving is the most important, but Bloodbath and Second Wind would have to be on CD, and either you've messed up or a healer have messed up... Otherwise there are no need for it, and it's not really gonna help the healers.

If you're not attacking anything, well, that's where you can find some uses of it... but there's a very limited amount of situations, where you're not attacking anything while you're taking single target damage, and you don't wanna use Shoulder Tackle or any other skill just after changing to FoE.

Using FoE on AoE damage is useless, since the healers aren't going to heal everyone less just because you're taking 5% less damage.

It's even more useless now in 3.0, since you want to build Chakra and use Form Shift during downtime.

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Originally Posted by Cococai

Fist of Fire and Earth is good where they are right now. Fist of Wind tho.... is there really a movement speed boost? I honestly dont see it.

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Yes wind does do something. The problem is you don't move fast enough to notice on the types of distances you move around on most fights... and of course shoulder tackle greatly reduces the use of any movement speed.

Healer: "I just want to heal."
Community : "No, you have to attack as well."
DD: "I just want to attack."
Community: "That's perfectly reasonable."

You just have to love double standards.

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Originally Posted by Velox

Healer: "I just want to heal."
Community : "No, you have to attack as well."
DD: "I just want to attack."
Community: "That's perfectly reasonable."

You just have to love double standards.

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Uh, no. It's more like:

Healer: "I just want to heal."
Some: "No, you have to attack as well."
Others: "Healers who only heal are totally fine. It's a personal choice."
DPS: "I just want to attack."
Some: "That's perfectly reasonable."
Others: "No, you need to mitigate as well so the healers can DPS more."

If everyone was saying the same thing, there wouldn't be dozens of posts with dozens of pages about the topics :P

So, you want to keep your ridiculously high endgame dps, and have utility that outclasses both dragoon and ninja?

or you want to keep your ridiculously high endgame dps, and have extra buffs to skillspeed/aoe that your class absolutely does not need?

Lol, you know people are spoiled when they complain about their flat 5% damage increase.

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Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

So, you want to keep your ridiculously high endgame dps, and have utility that outclasses both dragoon and ninja?

or you want to keep your ridiculously high endgame dps, and have extra buffs to skillspeed/aoe that your class absolutely does not need?

Lol, you know people are spoiled when they complain about their flat 5% damage increase.

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Ridiculously high endgame dps... what? I mean are you... what? Did you even read the op?

yes, i read the post, and all you asked for to move damage to and fro from your gl/fists while simultaneously asking for buffs in skillspeed and aoe for other fists. none of which monks need. research

fists are fine as is, if you ever find yourself complaining about a 5% damage increase at all times, take a moment to consider that Monk is the highest single target damage in the game, and theyre also the best melee aoe. not every ability needs to be used in pve.