How did Alisaie know? [Before the Fall]

Apologies if this has been asked before. Something has been really bugging me about the ending of 'Before the Fall.' The merchant who helps the WoL and Alphinaud get away from Ul'dah relates that Alisaie sent him, and that she said, 'her brother was having some trouble down in Ul'dah, and likely needed a helping hand getting away.'

My question: How the heck did she find out this information??? Think about it for a few seconds. The only people who had even a *hint* of what was going to happen, outside of those directly involved with the banquet plot, was Riol and the WoL. And as Before the Fall seems to take place after the Binding Coil storyline, she was wandering Eorzea during this time. Not exactly conductive to being in the loop, so to speak.

Yet, somehow, despite the events taking near everyone else by surprise, she *knew* what was going to happen. Or at least she had a far better idea then the WoL, the Scions, and the other 'good guys.' Enough of an idea to arrange for the getaway carriage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it's just not adding up for me. Personally, I hope we get to see her re-enter the MSQ proper at some point, and that will answer some questions.

uhhhhhmmmm, Family Linkshell? That's all i got.

She was spying his own brother, to be aware of every one of his movements

Her twin senses activated or she sensed a disturbance in the fo... Aether?

From what I can remember, Alisaie had two bodyguards with her when she and Alphinaud were discussing the speeches the Grand Company leaders gave in regards to the anniversary of Carteneau. Perhaps she has her own band of informants to keep her in the loop, or perhaps Riol got in contact with her.

From what I remember, it was implied she was with Urianger in the Waking Sands at the time, and there was suspicious Brass/Crystal Braves activity in Vesper Bay, enough to cause Urianger to cast a glamour on the Waking Sands, at least. Given how close her brother was with the Scions (not to mention Crystal Braves), she must have just figured something was happening when they came after Urianger, and sent the merchant to go check.

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Originally Posted by Yata7

uhhhhhmmmm, Family Linkshell? That's all i got.

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Honestly thats what I figured too. I dont see why anyone would read more into it than that.

Also doesn't Alisae have informants within each GC? J'brohka being one of them?

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Originally Posted by Nalien

From what I remember, it was implied she was with Urianger in the Waking Sands at the time, and there was suspicious Brass/Crystal Braves activity in Vesper Bay, enough to cause Urianger to cast a glamour on the Waking Sands, at least. Given how close her brother was with the Scions (not to mention Crystal Braves), she must have just figured something was happening when they came after Urianger, and sent the merchant to go check.

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To quote Tataru:

"Anyway, after Yugiri found me, we traveled to Vesper Bay and met up with Urianger. When we told him what happened, he used his magicks to weave a glamour around the Waking Sands."

So, yeah, I don't think that's quite right...Urianger didn't cast the glamour until after the fact.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

To quote Tataru:

"Anyway, after Yugiri found me, we traveled to Vesper Bay and met up with Urianger. When we told him what happened, he used his magicks to weave a glamour around the Waking Sands."

So, yeah, I don't think that's quite right...Urianger didn't cast the glamour until after the fact.

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Well, remember that Tataru and Yugiri were already in Coerthas when we arrived. It is reasonable then, to assume that the work was going on to apprehend the remaining Scions before the banquet. Yugiri and Tataru likely arrived in Vesper Bay in time to inform Urianger (and thus Alisaie) before or during the events at the banquet. The alternative is that the Scions were being apprehended at the same time Tataru was being chased, and Yugiri and Tataru traveled from Limsa, to Vesper Bay, then to Coerthas, in the moments we were making our escape... While we were using our own personal taxi service (the Enterprise)... I don't think that journey would be possible, I think they got to Vesper Bay in time to tip Urianger/Alisaie off to what was going on and that's why Alisaie was able to send help.

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Originally Posted by Delphor

From what I can remember, Alisaie had two bodyguards with her when she and Alphinaud were discussing the speeches the Grand Company leaders gave in regards to the anniversary of Carteneau. Perhaps she has her own band of informants to keep her in the loop, or perhaps Riol got in contact with her.

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Riol *might* have gotten in contact with her, but there's absolutely no indication of such.

One of the main issues is one of timing. The time between the sultana being poisoned, and the character emerging from the tunnels, is a few hours at the most. In order for the merchant to show when he did, he needed pretty good forewarning, depending on the in-universe travel time between Vesper Bay and Ul'dah. Possibly before the poisoning even occurred.
But that also throws a wrench into the possibility someone in the GC's knew and informed Alisaie. After all, wouldn't they have *also* alerted the Scions if they had that much forewarning?

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Well, remember that Tataru and Yugiri were already in Coerthas when we arrived. It is reasonable then, to assume that the work was going on to apprehend the remaining Scions before the banquet. Yugiri and Tataru likely arrived in Vesper Bay in time to inform Urianger (and thus Alisaie) before or during the events at the banquet. The alternative is that the Scions were being apprehended at the same time Tataru was being chased, and Yugiri and Tataru traveled from Limsa, to Vesper Bay, then to Coerthas, in the moments we were making our escape...

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The latter was sort of my assumption. Remember, there was a good deal of travel time after we emerged from the tunnels. First, the merchant delivered us to Black Brush Station. Then Cid flew us all the way to Coerthas. I had assumed while we were escaping, Tataru and the others were also attacked. And then while we traveled first to Black Brush, then Coerthas, Tataru and Yugiri hit Vesper Bay before moving on themselves.

While they beat us there, it honestly didn't seem like it was by much. (Teleportation is a thing, so even just by porting to Revenant's Toll beating the Enterprise to Coerthas isn't that far-fetched. Even more so if Tataru actually attuned to the Camp Dragonhead aetheryte at some point. I'm assuming Yugiri attunned to it since she was in Coerthas during Dreams of Ice.)

And I also think it's odd *no one*, sans the merchant, mentioned her during the events. I would think Tataru informing Alisaie of what was happening would at least warrant a passing mention.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

The latter was sort of my assumption. Remember, there was a good deal of travel time after we emerged from the tunnels. First, the merchant delivered us to Black Brush Station. Then Cid flew us all the way to Coerthas. I had assumed while we were escaping, Tataru and the others were also attacked. And then while we traveled first to Black Brush, then Coerthas, Tataru and Yugiri hit Vesper Bay before moving on themselves.

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Well, we went from Black Brush to Coerthas via (the fastest?) Airship, so that would significantly cut down our travel time. Tataru and Yugiri would have had to cross the ocean to arrive at Vesper Bay, then presumably take a carriage to Coerthas. That's a significantly longer journey than the one we took, so the simple fact is that they must have had a head start, meaning they were attacked earlier.

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

(Teleportation is a thing, so even just by porting to Revenant's Toll beating the Enterprise to Coerthas isn't that far-fetched. Even more so if Tataru actually attuned to the Camp Dragonhead aetheryte at some point. I'm assuming Yugiri attunned to it since she was in Coerthas during Dreams of Ice.)

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I really don't think NPCs (or ourselves) teleport the same way we do during gameplay... If they could... Well, the entire escape from Ul'dah sequence makes zero sense... We'd all have just teleported out, instead we had one case of someone attempting that and it going horribly wrong...

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Originally Posted by Alisa180

And I also think it's odd *no one*, sans the merchant, mentioned her during the events. I would think Tataru informing Alisaie of what was happening would at least warrant a passing mention.

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Perhaps he was the only one who spoke to Alisaie? Tataru and Yugiri spoke to Urianger. Urianger casts his glamour, and sends Tataru/Yugiri to Coerthas as a safe meeting place (and probably contacts Cid, IDR why Cid showed up, come to think of it), then informs Alisaie, who sends the merchant to try and help and he runs into us.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Well, we went from Black Brush to Coerthas via (the fastest?) Airship, so that would significantly cut down our travel time. Tataru and Yugiri would have had to cross the ocean to arrive at Vesper Bay, then presumably take a carriage to Coerthas. That's a significantly longer journey than the one we took, so the simple fact is that they must have had a head start, meaning they were attacked earlier.

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I repeat: Teleportation. They just had to port to Horizon then make their way to Vesper Bay. Then from there port to Revenant's Toll/Dragonhead.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I really don't think NPCs (or ourselves) teleport the same way we do during gameplay... If they could... Well, the entire escape from Ul'dah sequence makes zero sense... We'd all have just teleported out, instead we had one case of someone attempting that and it going horribly wrong...

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Remember, teleportation takes significant time and concentration. Which we had neither of during the escape. That was why Y'sholta resorted to the more 'instantaneous' Flow spell.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Perhaps he was the only one who spoke to Alisaie? Tataru and Yugiri spoke to Urianger. Urianger casts his glamour, and sends Tataru/Yugiri to Coerthas as a safe meeting place (and probably contacts Cid, IDR why Cid showed up, come to think of it), then informs Alisaie, who sends the merchant to try and help and he runs into us.

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The merchant was the one who informed Cid, according to the latter.

That's an...awfully convoluted series of events. And why would Urianger stop at telling Alisaie? Assuming this occurred before the poisoning, he could have reached the Scions via linkpearl.

Actually, to quote Tataru again:

"I tried contacting Minfilia and the others, but no one would respond...
And then Crystal Braves─our own people!─turned on us in the marketplace."

Which means the poisoning and subsequent events did happen concurrently or before the attack in Limsa.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I really don't think NPCs (or ourselves) teleport the same way we do during gameplay... If they could... Well, the entire escape from Ul'dah sequence makes zero sense... We'd all have just teleported out, instead we had one case of someone attempting that and it going horribly wrong...
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They do. Minfilia specfically mentions this in an early cutscene about wanting Vesper Bay to have its own Aetherite so people could teleport there and not have to teleport to horizon and walk over.

I wonder: how possible is it that Alisaie has the Echo?

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I wonder: how possible is it that Alisaie has the Echo?

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I’ve been thinking this *exact* same thing lately. While she didn’t have it when we last saw her, it honestly wouldn’t shock me if she had gained the Echo when we next see her. It’s hard for me to explain my full reasoning for this, but I’ll try.


A few things first. Alisaie is more of a ‘fighter’ then her brother. At the least, she dislikes dealing with politics, in contrast to him. To quote Alphinaud:

“And as you never fail to remind me of my fondness for diplomacy, I feel it only right that I remind you of your aversion to it.”

At the end of the Binding Coil storyline, Alisaie states:

“I mean to find my own reason to fight for Eorzea.
And when I do, I will fight with all my being.
You have done so much for me, Forename. One day, I hope to be able to repay you in kind.
I have no doubt but that you will continue to help those in need, and grow ever stronger in so doing.
I shall endeavor to do the same. And if the Twelve are kind, I hope one day to become Eorzea's sword in the darkness─as you are.”

And finally, at the end of Binding Coil Turn 12, it’s implied Louisoix gave the twins the potential to summon Phoenix-Egi.

Since Alphinaud gained a ‘power-up’ in the form of Onyx Carbuncle, I’ve been starting to predict that Alisaie will eventually gain her own power-up in the form of Phoenix-Egi.

There has been a lot of emphasis placed on the importance of the Echo, and how it marks ‘Haedelyn’s chosen.’ When Ysayle died, it was revealed others besides the Warrior of Light can gain Crystals of Light, and in extension some degree of the Blessing of Light. Though it’s implied the WoL is the first and only one to have gained six Crystals, which is part of what makes us so special. To quote one of the Ascians at the end of Haukke Manor:

“It is no ordinary mortal who can acquire one Crystal of Light...much less three.
The crystals make you strong, and it is to that strength that the Light is drawn.”

Furthermore, it’s been repeatedly stated that while the twins have ‘different paths’, they ‘share the same destination.’ In other words, there’s been significant foreshadowing that Alisaie will come to play a much bigger role in the main plot then she currently does. To quote Alphinaud during the ‘Another Turn in the Coil’ quest:

“My sister must needs have a better reason to fight. A time will come when the fate of the realm rests upon our shoulders, and when it does, we must be strong in our resolve─and certain of the stakes for which we risk all.”

So, we have Alisaie just waiting for a reason to Jump at the Call, and foreshadowing that she will come to play a bigger role...And what better way to fulfill both these things then by gaining the Echo? Giving her both her badly needed reason to fight, and immediately elevating her importance in the grand scheme of things. I’m even going to go one step further, and predict she has/is going to gain her own Crystal of Light, even.

As far-fetched as it may sound to others, Alisaie may have learned of the danger via Haedalyn/the Echo. That would possibly explain a lot (including why no one sans the merchant reported seeing her, despite confirmation she was in Vesper Bay and thus in the vicinity of the Waking Sands).

Her twin-sense was probably tingling1`