Ravana farm groups vs Clear groups

I don't understand how I help friends get their clears last night and we farm it and clear it again another 7 times. Then today I join 4 farm groups, many wipes, rage, and foul attitudes emerge then the group disbands. These attitudes really kill farming groups since people think so highly of themselves and flame everyone else, yes I know it's a clear so people need to know what to do. It's just a shame that I get more farming out of clear groups because their attitude is usually better and more polite with WAY more attempts than a clear group. Just want to get the rest of my i190 weapons because eso tome caps are dumb. /end rant

Consistency and uniformity on strategy is one of the reasons clear groups have an easy time getting multiple wins in after the initial clear.
Many times, farm groups in the party finder simply cannot meet on level ground and members want to do the fight according to varying strategies. Many times, the groups members don't want to deviate from the strategy they had already learned and proceed to disband, rage quit, start arguments, etc.

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Originally Posted by Whiston

Consistency and uniformity on strategy is one of the reasons clear groups have an easy time getting multiple wins in after the initial clear.
Many times, farm groups in the party finder simply cannot meet on level ground and members want to do the fight according to varying strategies. Many times, the groups members don't want to deviate from the strategy they had already learned and proceed to disband, rage quit, start arguments, etc.

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Which is a shame, since you will most likely run into a group with a completely different but viable strategy than what you are used to. That is experience that can help you in the many fights they will run across during their time with it on farm, and that same experience to me is more valuable than the drops the fight can provide. xD

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Originally Posted by Esp

Which is a shame, since you will most likely run into a group with a completely different but viable strategy than what you are used to. That is experience that can help you in the many fights they will run across during their time with it on farm, and that same experience to me is more valuable than the drops the fight can provide. xD

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Exactly I agree with this 100% there are so many ways people do this fight that throws people off, myself I like to solo tank Rav so people get confused and panic because of binding, others do the prey method where someone takes it off you. The other way is have 2 tanks and they both eat it with hallowed or living dead. There's just so many options that once you finally have the clear group farming it's much smoother while deciding on one tactic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whiston

Consistency and uniformity on strategy is one of the reasons clear groups have an easy time getting multiple wins in after the initial clear.
Many times, farm groups in the party finder simply cannot meet on level ground and members want to do the fight according to varying strategies. Many times, the groups members don't want to deviate from the strategy they had already learned and proceed to disband, rage quit, start arguments, etc.

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This hit the nail on the head for me. I mainly notice this in Titan EX and Ramuh EX (haven't done Ravana yet XD) and it is a pain to deal with sometimes. I will usually start with asking everyone what strat they are using before we get into it and at least try and get everyone on the same page to help avoid this very scenario.

Not really multiple strats for ravana to blame lack of communication, aside for how the group wants to handle double prey mechanic. Sooo chances are you done went and joined a farm group with multiple carried/purchased clears. Or ppl with 1 clear who think they can farm

I agree on strats and on the I don't know my tanking/healing/whatever bud... A clear party has time to wipe and get to know each other. A farm people get in something doesnt fit right away be it strat, heal, tank or dps missunderstandings.. you wipe - first ragequitters.
Had a "farm" with two friends we wiped 5 times people ragequit as one friend said he is sure this team can farm we stayed (was anyway on stop motion and considered myself dead weight but was ok enough obviously). New people joined and we farmed 1,5 hours straight without wipes... even when I DCD and reconnected and therefore reset the LB bar middle of the run we still killed. It definitely is all about trust and knowing each other in that point.

Most of the good players already finished their farming ages ago, so you're mostly left with people that needed all the eso gear to make most of the mechanics futile. :)

I have around 60 Ravana kills from the time when it was relevant (based on number of tokens), I join farm / clear groups from time to time for fun and quality of groups dropped drastically in past month or so. I think its simply because different kind of people does Ravana now - you could call them casual people. The reason why farm groups are actually worse than clear groups is because these people got their first clear with group which was actually good (in other words they were carried), then they think they can farm and fail half of things there because they simply don't understand the fight.
These are common mistakes I see in almost every farm group:
1. someone drops marks behind Ravana so after swords marks are on top of red cross and guess what happens, 4 people in same quadrant and wipe.
2. people don't pick their quadrant and kill 2+ other people with black circle
3. people change mark order from ABC to ACB, say go with preys to AB and forget about sword order ...
4. people know they are supposed to pass normal prey to tank but don't wait until it actually happens, run away with it and wipe the raid
5. people know they are supposed to go with their prey to A/C but they don't realize they have prey and run to B, or they go to A/C and then don't bait second charge away from B and kill everyone or they dont go pick second prey from original targets and let them die
6. Tanks despite having more than 17-18k hp still turning blinding blade to raid
7. People don't think about group composition, they have 1 tank 2 healers and 5 melees, melees go after adds, healers stand behind boss alone, tank turns boss after tapasya > atma linga > blinding blade > poof healer dead (unless (s)he is topped), or this is quite common problem after final liberation, when he does 4 blinding blades and atma lingas in between people dont stack and blinding blade is not equally distributed, if healer doesn't carry group, you can wipe there too
8. Seeing X - do I even have to mention it?
9. People going after big add, ignoring little ones, which results in lot of "cool swords"
10. People forgetting about knock back after final liberation phase

And list goes on, I say problem is that people who join farm groups don't know the fight or don't use their brain (or both).

There's a simple reason why this happens.Most PF farm groups are full of noobs.They got carried by FC or friends and still don't fully understand the mechanics.They use 'PF farm' in hopes that other players will carry them through farms as peoples general opnion seems to be if you never completed you are scum and trash but if you don't have the magic bonus message then you must be pro.
The clear parties are generally better because usually the entire party is making the effort to not fail mechanics whereas half the farm party players usually don't care and try throw the blame on each other.

This is definitely true - after I cleared T9 with my static, we had every step of the fight down to muscle memory and we're very confident with how to do it. The first time I PFed it to get a clear for a couple of friends though, this phenomenon became in-your-face obvious - nobody could agree on a strategy for meteors and golems and suddenly you have people ragequitting left and right. 'Tis a shame that people refuse to put in a tiny bit of effort into planning before you pull and see how it goes.

This problem is usually caused by poisonous noobs looking for a carry. There's always a couple people who think they can sneak in and hide among the rest of the group. The players who are there to take it seriously get easily frustrated because they've been dealing with these poisonous players constantly infecting groups that, by definition, should not have any noobs at all. There's a certain expectation in a Farm group that everyone should know what they're doing like the back of their hands. So, in theory, there should be no wipes or fails. If there are, it's either a funny accident, or there's some poison that needs to be siphoned out.

When setting up a Farm group, it's almost better to have an entry requirement. Each player joining your PF has to prove that they have cleared Rav (or whatever you're running) multiple times or else they can leave. In the case of Rav or Bis, it's an easy thing to confirm. If they can show me a hive weapon and at totem, or at least two totems or more, than I know they have been through the fight enough times to actually know what they're doing and are not just noobs looking for a carry.

Another simple way of checking is to do a spot check. In a Farm group, it is not an unreal expectation that they should be able to clear Rav on the first shot. If they can't, okay, maybe they needed a warm up. No big deal. But, after 2 wipes it's time to kick some people. It's the party leader's responsibility to keep an eye out for the dead weight and cut them lose before they corrupt the attitude of the rest of the group.

From my experience with PF, "clear" actually means "learning", and "farm" actually means "clear".

rav-ex is a mechanics fight that gets easier with good dps.

if people don't know the mechanics it becomes pretty obvious cus they will have multiple stacks to the easily dodged attacks.

if a farm party cant kill butterflies on first try without swords then you probs have a problem, so and so forth.

as for farm parties not being farm parties, well not much can be done but leave a bad group because you will always meet people sneaking in after their first kill or people who complain about other members because of past experiences with them.

personally I havnt pugged much of the primals or raids in quite some time as I always run it with ppl from a linkshell im a member of or my raid team.

All I can say is that a lot of farm groups are not farm groups. Just because you've cleared Ravana EX once does not mean you are ready to farm it. Unfortunately, this has always been an issue in any PF content.

Having something on farm means that you are very familiar with the content. In other words, while different strategies exist, you should be fully comfortable with any popular strategy. So solo or duo tank, swift liberation quadrants regardless of how it's done, traditional or cheese double preys, etc. If you can't guarantee a run with no mistakes, don't join a farm group.

Back when I still did Ravana EX, I joined a lot of farm groups. Even now, when I join clear parties just to help, it's very straight forward. This is what the chat looks like.

1,2,3,4 = A,B,C,D
Tanks A, Healers B, DPS 1/2 C, DPS 3/4 D
Tank 1 goes A, Tank 2 goes C

That's it. If you can't guarantee a 100% clear with those three lines, you are not ready to farm.