Why can't we have dungeons with multiple paths/open areas?

Currently all the dungeons feel pretty much the same. There is only one path that you run forward and no matter if the dungeon is set outside or inside it all feels the same, just with different "scenery". It would be really cool to have multiple paths/larger open areas and having some real goals, currently showing the goals does not even mean anything because all you do is run forward and kill bosses, no variation at all. To me getting new dungeons does not even sound fun anymore since they all will be the same format.

One game that actually has pretty fun dungeons with some variation and other player interaction than just endless trash killing is guild wars 2, despite the game otherwise being pretty trash the dungeons were pretty fun and had some kinda exploration feel to them.

Queue in DF:
Me: Hey can we explore a bit
Everyone else: No gotta get in and out for my tomes!!!!!! If we can't do the dungeon in ten minutes this party sucks!!!!!

To be fair I'd also like some multiple path dungeons (that arent full of poison and in a tunnel yes I'm talking about you toto rak)

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Queue in DF:
Me: Hey can we explore a bit
Everyone else: No gotta get in and out for my tomes!!!!!! If we can't do the dungeon in ten minutes this party sucks!!!!!

To be fair I'd also like some multiple path dungeons (that arent full of poison and in a tunnel yes I'm talking about you toto rak)

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Maybe not put them in the roulette, and make the dungeons award you with crafting items/minions etc. rather than tomes, so they will not be tome grinding dungeons but have exploration and different goals that you could do with your friends. Would be really refreshing.

Unless the dungeons has really lucrative and/or easy rewards to farm for, no one is going to play in dungeons that is not streamlined. Not to mention Square already tried putting in minions and crafting items in coffers inside dungeons before and people hated it; they hated how they could run a whole dungeon and get no gear because RNG wanted a laugh by dropping crafting material and RNG also laughing by making the drop rate of minions too low.

I agree a pathing system would be fun, and agree GW2 had a decent implementation of this.

I don't think removing tomes is a great idea. However, you could have a set amount of bonus tomes for the first run of each path per day. Say total run gives you 20 esoterics, but if you run the roulette you get your bonus and if you run the path for the first time that day you get an extra 20. That will encourage people to play each path, instead of just the most 'optimal' path over and over.

This is how I feel about Fates too. I have 0 idea what any dungeon or fate is about, as the objective is always the same, kill everything!!

You have FATEs that are also escorts for NPCs and "find the trinkets and bring em to the NPC" ones.

True... Kill everything! then talk to NPC.

It's hard to explain. Have you ever played Guild Wars 2? Dynamic Events there are more life-like.

Let's not steer the topic from dungeons though, sorry about that.

Rather than multiple paths for people to choose, what about "the dungeon is different every time you enter." Like, in one run you go one way, but in another run, you go down a different path (different final bosses or something). It would certainly make dungeons interesting, especially since we're only getting two per patch now.

Yeah or the dungeons like Tera, where you can take different paths and the dungeons change up each time! I love those :D

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Originally Posted by Samsta

Currently all the dungeons feel pretty much the same. There is only one path that you run forward and no matter if the dungeon is set outside or inside it all feels the same, just with different "scenery". It would be really cool to have multiple paths/larger open areas and having some real goals, currently showing the goals does not even mean anything because all you do is run forward and kill bosses, no variation at all. To me getting new dungeons does not even sound fun anymore since they all will be the same format.

One game that actually has pretty fun dungeons with some variation and other player interaction than just endless trash killing is guild wars 2, despite the game otherwise being pretty trash the dungeons were pretty fun and had some kinda exploration feel to them.

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I would like to see multiple paths with different bosses or special bosses accessible thru puzzles like a real labyrinth.

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Originally Posted by Nestama

Rather than multiple paths for people to choose, what about "the dungeon is different every time you enter." Like, in one run you go one way, but in another run, you go down a different path (different final bosses or something). It would certainly make dungeons interesting, especially since we're only getting two per patch now.

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That could be an interesting Raid Idea. Have the RNG set it up as soon as it cues from a few preset patterns like a Mystery Dungeon or make it where certain things you do influence the paths you take.

Like pulling a certain lever in room one changes boss 3 or something. It'd have to be controllable or semi-predictable though for loot reasons.

And here we are again.

Nobody really wants to waste so much time on a dungeon. They want their tokens and loot. These things are fine for single player games but when you have it in an MMO what happens is people find the optimum route for doing things then only ever do that. Same with puzzles we had them in games and as soon as people figure them out within a few days they become a minor annoyance. RNG dungeons? Why? Why do you want the Dev team to waste so much time on that?

If you don't like repetitiveness and grinding then you are playing the wrong kind of games.

I'd prefer the dungeons be randomly generated each time with different each time.

Such as Diablos dream makes the environment change each time. And the monsters randomly chosen.

Maybe this time you need to defend a npc through a dungeon. Or puzzle dungeons with no fighting at all just solve random generated puzzles.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

And here we are again.

Nobody really wants to waste so much time on a dungeon. They want their tokens and loot. These things are fine for single player games but when you have it in an MMO what happens is people find the optimum route for doing things then only ever do that. Same with puzzles we had them in games and as soon as people figure them out within a few days they become a minor annoyance. RNG dungeons? Why? Why do you want the Dev team to waste so much time on that?

If you don't like repetitiveness and grinding then you are playing the wrong kind of games.

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It sounds like you don't like repetitiveness and grinding tbh

My belief is that a location that encourages exploration doesn't work well as a dungeon, or at least not as we think of dungeons these days.

My go to example whenever this conversation appears is Black Rock Depths from Vanilla World of Warcraft. BRD was probably my favorite location in the game because it created the feeling of a living city that had all these different secrets to uncover and challenges to overcome, but as a dungeon it was horrible. The concept of BRD is something that I hope FFXIV takes a shot at, but I don't believe that doing it as a dungeon would be the best way to do it.

Made a thread about this awhile back D: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ngeon-Ideas%21

Threw out a few ideas i thought of.

Dungeons with more pathways are never used, check all the pre 50 dungeons, almost every one of them have extra corridors and pathways, i'd bet you most people probably only stood around and opened the door in Dzemael Darkhold that one time and never went into that first room again.

That is even with the incentive of getting extra EXP and useful equipment, if people don't want to side-track for exp and equipment, what could you possibly provide in a level capped dungeon to make someone want to spend extra time going down a different path. That is why if you follow through the dungeons you will notice progressively how the level 50 dungeons are tuned, the earlier ones have chests out of the way WP, AK, Pharos Sirius. The later ones the chests are on the main route and side routes are minimal simply because it was a waste of time since nobody ever went there.

On the point of open spaces, I am not sure how that is beneficial, unless it is used like some kind of gauntlet (AK Hard demon wall) or elevator style battle (T4) then it is just an open space with nothing in it, the biggest offender of this is Brayflox where there is that large open water area with roaming pugils and Aurum Vale in the first room the majority of people just strafe along the walls picking off the aggro until they get to the boss avoiding over 75% of that entire open space.

Randomised dungeons end up being either extremely simplistic or overly complex with glitches. Due to the design of randomised dungeons you need pieces that "fit" together to create a seamless environment or it would just look stupid, I would point towards Nyzul Isle in FFXI as a randomised dungeon creator, they all looked the same, just with walls in different places and no map it was a truly frustrating affair when you are at the mercy of the enemies spawned, the design of the place and finally any debuffs they would apply. A randomised dungeon in FFXIV would be ugly compared to the dungeons they currently produce and would likely frustrate players due to adding a RNG element into if they are likely to be able to complete that dungeon in a timely manner or even at all if the potential randomised combinations make progress impossible.

You could make a dungeon with different paths that are for different strategies.

Path one for singe target DPS: when most of your party is manly for single target dps. A few mobs would be here but have a lot of HP.
Path two for aoe DPS: when your party can dish out a lot of aoe. Huge amount of mobs but with less HP.

And maybe - Path for leveling: More mobs than the other paths, a bit easier maybe but give more exp?

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I'd prefer the dungeons be randomly generated each time with different each time.

Such as Diablos dream makes the environment change each time. And the monsters randomly chosen.

Maybe this time you need to defend a npc through a dungeon. Or puzzle dungeons with no fighting at all just solve random generated puzzles.

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Do you really want to subject your dungeon experience to the tender mercies of the RNG?

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Originally Posted by KleeneOnigiri

You could make a dungeon with different paths that are for different strategies.

Path one for singe target DPS: when most of your party is manly for single target dps. A few mobs would be here but have a lot of HP.
Path two for aoe DPS: when your party can dish out a lot of aoe. Huge amount of mobs but with less HP.

And maybe - Path for leveling: More mobs than the other paths, a bit easier maybe but give more exp?

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And a 4th "Suicide" path with nothing but high level sub bosses but some high end loot or rare glamours? That be cool.

It wouldn't work as the groups will choose whatever path is easiest/most efficient. GW2 had a multiple path dungeon system as well and in every single one the group always picked the fastest path without exception. I am fine with a randomly generated dungeon layout each time, but multiple paths? I think it would be a waste of time.

To quickly add, rather than editing my old post: If the entire party consists of players who have already beaten the dungeon, a randomly generated path could lead to a different final boss (slightly harder than the original, but only by a little. For HM dungeons, it could be the dungeons original final boss. So for Pharos Sirius, it could be "The Siren's Remnant" or something).

Lord of the ring online had some good dungeon and raid level design back in the days, like carn dum that was an interesting dungeon :)