Do i need to DPS?

I was looking at other threads and i seen people talking about healers being "lazy" for not dpsing any. And I am not being lazy just don't want people to die also I want to save as much mana as I can. So I want to know am I just being a bad healer or people just being upset that things are not dying a few seconds faster?

You don't need to DPS, it isn't a requirement outside of high end progression raids. However, if you ever find that you spend a few seconds not casting any heals, those seconds could be spent DPSing instead of waiting for damage to happen. That's the basic mentality of healer DPS - there's a bit more to it, including pushing the limits of your tank's health and all that, but that's a bit more risky and takes a lot of skill/know how of your job to pull off. Again, you don't need to DPS but if you ever find that you're not spam healing the tank, throwing in some DPS won't hurt anyone.

Basically what Spooky said. Healer dps is like sprinkles on a sunday. Completely unneeded but nice to have.
With the exception of Savage raids

Short answer is yes. Long answer is you don't "Need" to, but there's also no reason not to and anything is better than standing there doing nothing, there's no content where DPSing should hurt your mana management significantly so throwing some spells is nothing but a good thing.

Just don't ever dps in situations where it will get the tank killed, healing is your first and foremost job, but you have damage spells for a reason, and healing needed is so minor in dungeons you can get away with a LOT.

Just earlier today I did a Fractal run where Selene solo healed the whole thing except the last boss, only getting an occasional rouse from me. Now it could have been because my scholar is just really geared, but that spoke wonders to me of how pathetic dungeons are these days when it comes to healing lol.

Gonna vouch for what others have said. You don't need to damage as such and groups that require it are silly, unless it is some hard dps check, that is, high end raid suff as mentioned, where there is high performance expectation from everyone.

Won't hurt to try your hand on it a bit though. Maybe start just by casting some DoTs in Cleric Stance if you happen to have moment when no one is particularly hurt and you are near full mana. But again, as others have said, healing comes first. Adding to damage is mostly to avoid own boredom as much as helping the group.

normally i would say you should dps, not in situations where you don't know what's going to happen. i dont dps in dungeons only if tank pulls the entire dungeon, otherwise you can always DPS and stance dance decently.
you don't need to though, but it will make everything more smooth, and as i see you are AST, its just very easy to jump out of cleric stance and throw ED if things get tough on tank.
i wouldn't dps more than throwing DoT's in savage though, because of mana issues.

If you're not doing hard end game content (specifically Savage), then no you don't need to. However, most healers do like to DPS as it adds a flare to the play style (and a sense of danger, I guess?).

You need not worry (that much) about your MP when you're doing trash pulls in a dungeon. I'm OCD so I always do 3 Holy's per trash pack, which is 7.8k of my 13.6k MP pool (I'm excluding Aero III's cost and Assize's MP return for simplicity sake), that seems like a lot, but popping Shroud after the final Holy makes sure I have more than enough MP for the next pull. Running between trash pulls, you will usually recover almost all of your MP anyway (even if the tank pulls big, as you won't suffer the combat MP refresh penalty unless you heal them).

As for people dying, most tanks will be fine for a couple of GCDs without a direct heal. Healers have a few tricks for lessening the incoming damage; Holy (stun, can reapply ~3 times), Shadow Flare (slow), and CO (stun). As well as mitigation (I consider HoTs mitigation as the tank is being healed back damage nearly as frequently as its coming in); Sacred Soil (reduced incoming damage), Asylum + Regen + Medica II (this ticks for more than 2k on my WHM), Aspected Benefic + Aspected Helios + Wheel of Fortune HoT from CU (I'm not including the reduced damage for CU, as you have to channel it for the effect). These skills, using them solo, all together, or in a various combination, are what give healers the flexibility to DPS.

Bosses are slightly different. Bosses are mostly just... cast DoTs, reapply DoTs. XD

So, as you asked, are you a bad healer? No. A healers main focus is to keep people alive. Are you a lazy healer? I don't think so. What I gathered from your post is that you've never really dabbled into DPS in a party situation or you had bad experiences with it. But, if you are not comfortable with DPSing, that is 100% okay, you shouldn't force yourself to do something that makes you uncomfortable or stresses you out. Not being able to handle both doesn't make you lazy, it just means you have a different play style, and that's okay. However, not being phased by the idea of DPSing, and simply not trying at all is laziness.

Thank you all for the very helpful feedback i will try and get better at this. If anyone has helpful tips or anything i will be more then happy to read them.

If you aren't comfortable DPSing don't do it. I do recommend practicing of course, but take it slow.

I love to DPS when healing..mostly because I hate standing there with nothing to do. Usually what I do on each healer, if it's my first time healing a piece of content with that job, I won't DPS. I'll stand back and watch how just my healing affects the flow; if the first few pulls go smooth then I may add a bit of DPS here and there. '

As for MP, I play SCH enough to know when I'm going to need more. Usually, unless I know I'll need the aetherflow stacks for something, I'll just use Aetherflow whenever it's ready. On my AST I'm still getting a feel for my MP usage, but I use Luminiferous Aether the first time around 80%, then whenever it's ready...

It also took me a LOOONG time to stance dance comfortably, I recommend practicing stance dancing in lower level dungeons if you need that practice.

I DPS heavily on my SCH, both in end-game progression (A3S is hard, haha) and in ex roulette level stuff. I find that as long as the tank isn't awful, I can sit in cleric stance for the whole of Neverreap and Fractal, and manage my fairy for any healing needed.

Basically, you don't need to DPS, but healing non end-game stuff in this game is so pathetically easy that DPSing gives you something interesting to do.

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Originally Posted by Iriri

Thank you all for the very helpful feedback i will try and get better at this. If anyone has helpful tips or anything i will be more then happy to read them.

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Start out slowly. While healer damage outside of Cleric Stance borders on a waste of MP with the current differences between Intelligence and Mind, it might be reassuring to do something like setting up DoTs and throwing in a few filler nukes outside of Cleric Stance. This way, you get to gauge how much damage the tank and/or group can take before you need to begin healing without feeling the pressure of remembering to turn off Cleric Stance.

Once you're comfortable with that, begin using Cleric Stance to set up your DoTs instead, then switch out and watch how the situation unfolds. Just as an example, simply knowing that the Phantom Ray always performs two Double Sever after the super AoE (usual cones+tons of circles) will greatly affect how comfortable you are with stance dancing. Extend Cleric Stance uptime with some filler nukes as you grow more accustomed to the damage flow, and watch your DPS beats the dirty Bard into the ground (and they aren't even singing Foe Requiem for you. Aren't you awesome?)!

After that point, I feel it's more or less time to just get used to it, while adapting to the situation and encounter in question. :p Sometimes you get groups that suck which makes stance dancing more dangerous than usual, while other times you'll get excellent runs where you barely have to heal at all. Some bosses make stance dancing difficult, some barely have any dangerous mechanics at all.

Anyway, that's how I learned how to healer DPS. I'd DoT things up without Cleric Stance early on as I got used to healing, and sooner or later I began using them with Cleric Stance up, before switching out of it and begin healing the group. At the same time I'd observe the encounter and see what skills did what and slowly learn when it was safe to squeeze in some more Aero. Circa Wanderer's Palace (dear lord, some DPS were awful at AoEing, talk about rough introduction) I was a full fledged Holy spamming stance dancing machine. :p

Thankfully, you picked a class that requires no accuracy to DoT up a target. Astrologian is great for that. My advice would be to set your UI up for a third hot bar and assign them all quick keys if you use keyboard for the spells. If you're on PS, you might be a little limited in space so that could be something, but I don't play there, so I wouldn't know. When I only had 2 hot bars on PC, DPSing was a huge pain, but it's much easier with a third hot bar.

DoTs are where you should start. Throw on Cleric Stance, Combust1 and Combust2, drop cleric stance, and continue healing. You'll eventually get very comfortable with it and that is when things get fun.

You don't need to, just like dps or tanks don't need to do good dps, they could simply do the bare minimum to finish the encounter in 90 minutes. But this is what differentiate good healers from bad/lazy healers.
If you're a healer and you only heal and do nothing when you don't have to heal, then you're doing the bare minimum.

Ideally its expected to dps however it's not necessary to clear normal runs etc, it helps clear things faster no end.

I'm now leveling dark up to 60 and I see such a mix bunch, I personally do not care if you do or don't as long as I remain vertical.

If a healer does dps I stay in tank stance alot longer.

If a healer doesn't dps I stay majority dps stance to make up the difference.

Just to add on a small point that hasn't been touched upon yet - sometimes the only thing you CAN do is heal until you're sucked dry in MP. This is usually the case in synced dungeons with under geared and/or under performing players or non-synced dungeons where players are over exerting the party (usually pulling more than they should for their gear level).

The best healers will see the DPS opportunities and capitalize on it. The best healers will also know when its a near impossibility to DPS and do their best to maintain forward momentum by ensuring the health and well being of their party. This comes with experience, so don't get discouraged initially.

This is really a situational thing. It's not necessary, but it does help.

However, if you're:
1) Uncertain about how to manage your mana or if you'll have enough.
2) Uncertain about how fast you can get back to healing.
3) Unfamiliar with a fight.

Then it's better not to.

I only dps if the tank is rotating cd's properly, dps's avoiding aoes or during certain phases in a boss fight. A healer DOES NOT have to dps. If groups are not clearing content due to dps checks then the group needs to look at the dps's... That's with ALL content including savage raids.... either GET GOOD or GEAR UP. Not all content is suppose to be cleared the same day it comes out. Too many players are in a hurry to clear all content ASAP then are left standing around with their thumbs up their butts.

Play the way you feel you need to play. If you like to be conservative with mp to make sure the party is still standing at the end of the dungeon then by all means play that way. A dead dps cant dps and if the party wipes bc the healer had no mp well that will make the run last a lot longer. So do whatever makes you feel comfortable.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

If groups are not clearing content due to dps checks then the group needs to look at the dps's... That's with ALL content including savage raids.... either GET GOOD or GEAR UP. Not all content is suppose to be cleared the same day it comes out. Too many players are in a hurry to clear all content ASAP then are left standing around with their thumbs up their butts.

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Ahaha...ahahaha. Oh man, thanks for a great laugh. The idea that Elysium's DPS need to get good is priceless :p

Healer dps is not required for casual play, but there is content for which it is currently required, (I.e. Alex Savage), so telling someone that it is always the DPS's fault if you don't meet a DPS check is garbage. If you don't like the challenge of end-game content when it is freshly released, then that is fine, but please do not go around telling people that healer DPS is never required, because I am currently working on A3S, and I can assure you that healer DPS is most definitely a requirement to clear that fight.

In low level content, sub-Stone Vigil normal mode: PLEASE DPS. Healers can do extremely competitive DPS at that point, single target or multi-DoT, to the point where it's not uncommon to beat PUGs with just Stone spam in CS. SCH is straight up one of the top DPS of anyone from Haukke on with Bane.
Stone Vigil - level 50 dungeons: dependent on what healer you are and speed of the run but yes unless your tank is woefully bad or undergeared you can at least get a little bit off.
Level 50 dungeons on: yes, DPS, even in big full pulls. AST starts really losing its edge and you won't be able to do too terribly much without good CDs from your tank, but it's still doable.

Any dungeon boss you can Regen/AB the tank or Embrace spam the tank and DPS about 70% of the time. It won't be incredible DPS but you can knock off 15% of the boss's HP that otherwise would have been untouched.
For raids, serious raiding, the damage output on the MT is usually very low ... as we approach i210 once again Regen + forced Embrace spam + tank CDs virtually cancels out the majority of AAs. You can and should DPS, especially in A2-4 Savage.

Tips for DPSing? It's pretty easy actually. Identify the times when a tank or the raid will get bopped by mechanics or a tank buster/cleaves. Use E4E/Virus to help counteract those things. Keep Regen/AB/Embrace spams up fulltime, buffing them if you don't need DS/Syn/Rouse for anything else. If in an 8 man, if you as the main healer would like to get up your DoTs but there's some dedicated healing required, tell your off healer (SCH almost always) to take over so you can get your stuff up then take over healing once they're up. Ride HoTs out, they're godly in FFXIV ... don't be a lamer who stands there with HoTs that negate AAs and Cure spam on the tank or stand there. That's not cool.

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

Ahaha...ahahaha. Oh man, thanks for a great laugh. The idea that Elysium's DPS need to get good is priceless :p

Healer dps is not required for casual play, but there is content for which it is currently required, (I.e. Alex Savage), so telling someone that it is always the DPS's fault if you don't meet a DPS check is garbage. If you don't like the challenge of end-game content when it is freshly released, then that is fine, but please do not go around telling people that healer DPS is never required, because I am currently working on A3S, and I can assure you that healer DPS is most definitely a requirement to clear that fight.

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Sounds like you are in hurry to clear the content. Why not role with 5 dps's, 1 healer and 2 tanks if you feel that the dps checks are to difficult to get past. A healers main job is to heal anything else is just sprinkles on the cup cakes.

There are many types of players out there and not all players can multitask or at least feel comfortable with multitasking. Personally I like to throw some dps when I can as a healer or stance dance as a tank during certain phases of a boss fight but not all players will feel comfortable doing that. The best thing any player can do is to be patient and understanding toward other players abilities.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Sounds like you are in hurry to clear the content. Why not role with 5 dps's, 1 healer and 2 tanks if you feel that the dps checks are to difficult to get past. A healers main job is to heal anything else is just sprinkles on the cup cakes.

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If "in a hurry" is before they raise the iLVL cap or add echo, then sure. Otherwise it's not really in the cards to beat something like A4S with just the hopes and dreams of 4 DPS.

It sounds like in your universe only DPS should do good damage and SE has molded their raids around this fact ... unfortunately for the less stoic healers/tanks out there, that's not what the devs went for, this time around.

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Originally Posted by Sleigh

If "in a hurry" is before they raise the iLVL cap or add echo, then sure. Otherwise it's not really in the cards to beat something like A4S with just the hopes and dreams of 4 DPS.

It sounds like in your universe only DPS should do good damage and SE has molded their raids around this fact ... unfortunately for the less stoic healers/tanks out there, that's not what the devs went for, this time around.

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Well dps's main job is to dps. A dead dps cannot dps. You can always save your i190 - i210 gear if you want hardcore mode. BTW echo will not be added to savage for a long while and who knows if the devs will add echo to savage this time around. The devs are creating 2 modes for each raid (story and savage). So echo may not be added... nobody knows at this point in time. All I'm saying is if the healers in your group feel comfortable throwing down the deeps then by all means dps away. There is no wrong or right... play the way you feel like playing.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Well dps's main job is to dps. A dead dps cannot dps.

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Yeah, and the raid dying to enrage doesn't get free loot.

More like damage is a party-wide responsibility. Nothing is limited to what color your job role is, stance dancing is real and needed for savage progression.

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Originally Posted by Iriri

I was looking at other threads and i seen people talking about healers being "lazy" for not dpsing any. And I am not being lazy just don't want people to die also I want to save as much mana as I can. So I want to know am I just being a bad healer or people just being upset that things are not dying a few seconds faster?

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No. But you should help out for DPS intensive triggers which can wipe a party member or the entire party if the DPSes fail, if possible. For example, Nidhogg.

This is about to turn into a debate that started a few months back where "casuals" branded those who put in some extra effort as "elitist" and/or "nerds" (or whatever negative image you can imagine for either group).

As for the query from the OP:
If you're not DPSing and there's no need to heal within a certain time frame, what else do you plan to do? There is no single encounter where you are required to keep any HP bar at 100% at all time. Here's a bit from the healer handbook I wrote for my FC

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2.1 Primary- and secondary objectives as a healer
Your primary objective as a healer is to keep your party in good shape, not as black and white as keeping them alive. Staying alive is an individual job, rather than yours. Keeping your party in good shape involves:

• Having sufficient HP at the right time

• Is free of most, if not all, negative status effects

• Being prepared for sure-kill attacks unless properly mitigated

Your secondary objective would be to make the encounter as forgiving as possible, although opinions on this may vary. Making an encounter more forgiving involves handling mechanics or contributing with damage. For most encounters, especially when progressing, the dps checks is one of the main causes for failures. Assuming your primary objective is achieved till the dps check fails. By taking duties handling mechanics from other players would improve the overal damage output. Alternatively you could help contribute with some damage as a healer.

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Obviously, you should focus on your primary objective. While secondary objectives are optional, it may make or break an encounter depending on the amount of time and effort you (the healer) put into it.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

you don't need to DPS but if you ever find that you're not spam healing the tank, throwing in some DPS won't hurt anyone.

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Objection!!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/70cf9d16d...uukyo1_400.gif

You will hurt the monster, monsters have feelings too!

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

Objection!!
http://24.media.tumblr.com/70cf9d16d...uukyo1_400.gif

You will hurt the monster, monsters have feelings too!

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Lies! Living Liquid has no feelings! >:c

He simply has the desire to crush dreams to death... +sobs

Before you enter CS to dps make sure you have something to save tank. Tetra for whm, lustrate for sch and ED for Astrologian. Let tank drop as low as he can go, pop out of CS then use those instant heal.

Yes, you should DPS when you can do so without letting someone die.

This topic comes up frequently, and the few circumstances under which a healer should consider abstaining from DPS include...

- Being completely unfamiliar with a challenging encounter (i.e. you are forced to react rather than to anticipate since you have no idea what is going on)

- Being stuck with a party that excessively taxes your resources

Under average conditions it takes little MP to heal an encounter (even most raids), especially when you meet or exceed the expected minimum ilvl. There's rarely any need to purposefully hoard your MP; intelligent use of CDs is generally enough to allow you to more or less always be casting.

On AST, I'll dps just so I can see the animation for Gravity.

Gravity-Swiftcast-Gravity makes me smile twice as much.

I don't know why you wouldn't. Obviously you should never put anyone in danger to dps, but if you know the zone and no one is getting hurt why just stand there and do nothing?

I don't ever do that when I'm playing a tank, and certainly not when playing a DPS class.

There aren't going to be many surprises running Neverreap or Fractal for the 100th time that require tons of emergency healing, even in DF groups.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

Sounds like you are in hurry to clear the content. Why not role with 5 dps's, 1 healer and 2 tanks if you feel that the dps checks are to difficult to get past. A healers main job is to heal anything else is just sprinkles on the cup cakes.

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I'm not sure what ilvl a group needs to sacrifice healer dps but people doing a3s progression do not meet the 6.1k raid dps requirement from 4 dps alone. It's just mathematically impossible. You also need about 5k+ hps which cannot be managed by one healer. Half of my group is ilvl capped until we clear a3s. We will not be able to clear it without healer dps until we clear a4s to get the 210 weapons. It isn't about being in a hurry to clear content; the fights this expansion are just designed to require healer dps.

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Originally Posted by Astral145

There is no wrong or right... play the way you feel like playing.:cool:

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Except in Alex Savage, where doing no DPS as a healer is most definitely wrong and will get you swiftly removed from most competent statics. As a SCH I pulled 700 DPS on our first A1S clear and just under 1k DPS on our first A2S clear. Without my DPS, and the 200 or so from the WHM, we would not have beaten the enrage, simple as that. Hell, even our WAR is pulling over 1k DPS to help meet the checks.

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Originally Posted by Selli

Lies! Living Liquid has no feelings! >:c

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This is a contradiction!!
Living Liquid has the word "Living" in its name! It is announcing to the world that it is alive! Hence it has feelings!
It just that shattering dreams and hopes happens to be what it does for a living (and enjoy it)

You absolutely should dps. Not only can it be good practice for things to come, but it's also common courtesy for your group I believe.

Think of it like the tank. The tank doesn't NEED to dps. His job first and foremost should be establishing threat and maintaining it before he starts to going "ham" so to speak. How would you feel if the tank made sure he established aggro, and then went afk for 20 seconds while the dps did their job, or just jumping up and down until his threat goes low and he needs to flash/overpower again. Or maybe he'll be spamming flash/whatever when he already has tons of threat and doesn't need to do so, because he wants to be "sure." Perhaps he'll even throw in a defensive CD now and then.

But the matter of fact that is not the case, in fact there's a huge HUGE number of people going around now, telling tanks they're dumb for wearing Vit gear, the gear that SE designed for them for them for their specific job, rather than STR gear. Why? Because even though you don't NEED too, the extra dps is always welcome if you can properly use your CDs, the same logic applies to the healer here. This is also goes for stance dancing in both roles.

So in essence, tanks need to worry about tanking AND dps, healers need to worry about heals AND dps, and DPS need to worry about...um...well dps, if any run were to go as smooth and fast as possible. If you don't want to see your tank jumping up and down in shield oath once he's not worried about losing threat anytime soon, then it'll be nice to learn when YOU should dps as a healer

Short answer is no, you don't need to. But the runs will go quicker if you dps, personally if I see a healer standing around doing nothing for a long time I will make the next pull bigger if I find the DPS capable of handling it when it comes to dungeons, in raids I will just quietly swear to myself.

I feel like the better question is... why not? Any time you could be doing something but instead choose to remain idle should be for a good reason, e.g. to keep up mana or because a tank buster coming in under 6 seconds (too soon to drop CS precast a heal). Anything short of that is typically just slowing down each encounter by 10 to 30%. (A SCH among a low-AoE party is a huge boon, as is a Holy spam opener.)

You're a WHM/SCH/AST, not a health-battery. Your going inactive for a part of the fight just because no heal is currently needed is no different than a dps stopping his attacks for bits at a time, or a PLD spamming flash unnecessarily (when he could be combo-ing).

In every MMO I've ever played I've done some dps as a healer. My secret? Macros. I have my dps spells set to [shift] numbers, every dps spell is a 3 part macro"

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/macroicon combust
/ac "Combust" <t>
/ac "Combust" <tt>
/ac "Combust" <ft>

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<t> is target, <tt> is Target's Target (great for healers so you can still keep your party targeted), <FT> is Focus Target (I used this mostly in WOD or any boss that you need their health bar/cast bar visable for inc damage indications.)
This macro also makes it really easy to solo as it tries to cast on <t> first, then <tt>. with <ft> as last ditch target. Every dps sepll on AST, WHM, and Arcanist is written this way (with smn pet commands added at bottom for added help)
All you need to remember then? Turn of Clerics!

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Originally Posted by Iriri

I was looking at other threads and i seen people talking about healers being "lazy" for not dpsing any. And I am not being lazy just don't want people to die also I want to save as much mana as I can. So I want to know am I just being a bad healer or people just being upset that things are not dying a few seconds faster?

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I say this as someone who always DPS's on my WHM: you do not need to DPS. A bad healer can't keep his party alive. A good healer keeps his party alive. A great healer keeps his party alive and contributes DPS. You don't need to be great, you just need to be good. You find that as you become more comfortable with healing in midcore/casual content, you'll start having more downtime during which the party is not taking damage and any healing you do will just be overhealing. At that point, hopefully you will strive to break into that great healer territory.

You don't have to dps as a healer. The only time where you might want to, is if tank isn't really taking much damage, nothing to heal, then doing a little dps gives you something to do, it just helps stuff get done faster. You are not required to unless you there is some sort of enrage mechanic and they need every bit of dps because dps may or may not be on the low side.