The Heavens' Ward and Other Notable NPC's of Ishgard (Lore Questions)

During the 3.0 MSQ the Heavens' Ward members were a pretty big part of it. I was almost expecting to get more information and more scenes including them maybe even background stories. But now that 3.0 MSQ is all said and done with, I can't help but feel robbed of an important part of the new expansion.

We know so little about the Heavens' Ward and it's members and even more so with the members that were not a part of any major scenes or dungeons like Zephirin, Charibert, Grinnaux, and Adelphel were.

I guess what I'm asking for here is more lore on the members of the Heavens' Ward.
Where did these members come from?
What walks of life did they start out on to get to becoming such high ranking knights?
How old are they all in comparison to one another?
How do they interact with one another on a daily basis?
Is/Was there any internal conflict between the members at times?
How did members of the Heavens' Ward react with members of the Temple Knights?
Do any of the Heavens' Ward have any affiliation with the high houses aside from Grinnaux?
Who is Aymeric's mother?
How old was the Archbishop when he helped conceive him?

Please, Fern, Give us more! We Heavensward Lore Freaks need more!

I'd really like to see this in relation to the fact we've just gone and killed the Archbishop and 12 high-ranking knights and Aymeric seems to have covered it all up (he signs the treaty rejoining the Alliance in the name of the Archbishop, after all). Aren't the knights' families going to start missing them after a while? Inter-house politics means House Dzemael's inevitably going to start asking after Ser Grinnaux soon, if nothing else.

Seconding this! At least give them a little canon story, like the one with young Haurchefant. I would love to see more insight on these characters.

It would be nice. Having said that, I can see why they left them out of much development. HW had a lot of stuff happening in it and characters it was developing already. Some, like Hilde, have only gotten pretty minor development so far.

Still perhaps we will learn a bit more about them in retrospect as we continue to do quests in Ishgard. I suspect the political situation in Ishgard will feature a lot in the following patches. Dzemael seems to have been set up as a semi-antagonistic high house for any politics to come.

Yes, please!

Anyway, scroll down to see the knights' names: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Heavens%27_Ward

One thing I was just thinking about the other day, how old was Aymeric's mom or what was she thinking?! Given the age gap between Aymeric and Thordan VII, he probably looked that old already when Aymeric was conceived :X.

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Originally Posted by Seunkii

Yes, please!

Anyway, scroll down to see the knights' names: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Heavens%27_Ward

One thing I was just thinking about the other day, how old was Aymeric's mom or what was she thinking?! Given the age gap between Aymeric and Thordan VII, he probably looked that old already when Aymeric was conceived :X.

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She was probably thinking that the Archbishop was an incredibly powerful and important figure. Since we have no information on her, her motivations based on that are hard to predict. To be fair, if you shaved 25 or so years off the Archbishop he probably wouldn't look quite so archaic. Its would have probably been around the age that Count Fortemps is now.

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Originally Posted by Grinnaux

Who can say what will come of all this? The greenwrath is so thick about the city, even I can feel it—and I'm not even a bloody conjurer!

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Grinnaux was a God's Quiver Bow in the year 1562 of the Sixth Astral Era. Now, I've seen a fair amount of names reused from 1.0, so that's still a possibility here, but his character model too, as far as I can tell, remains identical, which is odd. It's likely a case of reused assets, but there's potential for some sort of story there.

totally want to hear more about the heavens ward, what families they came from, etc. Are they going to be replaced or is the cover-up saying that they are all on some top secret task? I imagine it won't last forever, not with heretics spreading the truth.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

Grinnaux was a God's Quiver Bow in the year 1562 of the Sixth Astral Era. Now, I've seen a fair amount of names reused from 1.0, so that's still a possibility here, but his character model too, as far as I can tell, remains identical, which is odd. It's likely a case of reused assets, but there's potential for some sort of story there.

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I think that's just re-used assets. Grinnaux de Dzaemal is an important part of that family (i.e. Jannequinard de Durendaire, etc)--it would be hard to explain why he would run off to join the Gridanian military, when he's pretty much into being a bruiser for Ishgard's.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

I'd really like to see this in relation to the fact we've just gone and killed the Archbishop and 12 high-ranking knights and Aymeric seems to have covered it all up (he signs the treaty rejoining the Alliance in the name of the Archbishop, after all). Aren't the knights' families going to start missing them after a while? Inter-house politics means House Dzemael's inevitably going to start asking after Ser Grinnaux soon, if nothing else.

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Are we certain the Heaven's Ward are dead? We see Thoran VII croak, but that's it.

And I don't think Thoran VII's death is actually a secret. It's just that such little time has passed that Aymeric hasn't really had a chance to install a new government. Since no new government has been declared, it makes sense to stick with Aymeric representing the Holy See until he figures out how things will be run (especially for someone like Nanamo that always keeps things formal). And if anyone wasn't aware of the change would have at least noticed that neither the Archbishop nor any of his personal representatives were present at a major public event.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

I'd really like to see this in relation to the fact we've just gone and killed the Archbishop and 12 high-ranking knights and Aymeric seems to have covered it all up (he signs the treaty rejoining the Alliance in the name of the Archbishop, after all). Aren't the knights' families going to start missing them after a while? Inter-house politics means House Dzemael's inevitably going to start asking after Ser Grinnaux soon, if nothing else.

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On one hand, I doubt Ayermic covered up anything. His character is written to be the type to explain the various nobles that the archbishop and the Heavensward became primals and were defeated by the Scions. Also, I doubt the houses will directly act against him, as he has the full support of the Alliance and the Scions. I think for the most part, they, like the rest of Ishgard, are waiting to see what comes next. Then again, I never got the impression the houses were as manipulative as the Monetarists in Ul'dah.

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Originally Posted by SirPhoebos

Are we certain the Heaven's Ward are dead? We see Thoran VII croak, but that's it.

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Right before the archbishop dissolves into aether, we see the Heavensward fall, change back into humans, and dissolve as well. Rewatch the cut scene.

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Originally Posted by SirPhoebos

Are we certain the Heaven's Ward are dead? We see Thoran VII croak, but that's it.

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Their aether was linked with Thordan's, which is what allowed him to summon them at will. When he was defeated, so were they. Because they bound themselves to each other's aether for their special summoning, once it was depleted they all vanished. Their technique was a double-edged sword.

In regards to the topic in large, 3.0 is far from over. The 3.0-3.1 story is only a piece of the pie. We only JUST freed Ishgard from their own close-minded obsession with their false history. 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, etc will continue the aftermath and how Aymeric will deal with it. Even though Ishgard has rejoined the Alliance does not mean it's ready to stand on it's own just yet. It's going to take several months to get situated with a new government and new religious ideals (since Ishgardian society is entwined with both). 4.0 is when we will really get to see a new Ishgard and possibly, a new GC to join, with all their affairs being sorted out by then.

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Originally Posted by Delily

Also, I doubt the houses will directly act against him, as he has the full support of the Alliance and the Scions. I think for the most part, they, like the rest of Ishgard, are waiting to see what comes next. Then again, I never got the impression the houses were as manipulative as the Monetarists in Ul'dah.

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The WoL had the full support of the Alliance and the Scions back in 2.5.5, though, and it didn't seem to help much?

Also, besides the shenanigans going down in the Astrologian and Mechanist storylines, House Dzemael did have Alphinaud and Tataru arrested on false charges just to mess with House Fortemps. Isghardian politics seem just as bad as Ul'Dah politics.

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Originally Posted by Delily

Right before the archbishop dissolves into aether, we see the Heavensward fall, change back into humans, and dissolve as well. Rewatch the cut scene.

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Okay, I suspected I was forgetting something (it was pretty late when I got to that scene).

House Dzemael is probably the likely antagonistic house. We are in the good books of two houses that generally are rivals of Dzemael. Dzemael is also one of if not the strongest of the Ishgardian houses at the moment.

I suspect we will see the internal politics play out in Ishgard over the 3.X cycle though at the same time we will be dealing with the Dragonsong War which obviously we aren't finished with yet.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

The WoL had the full support of the Alliance and the Scions back in 2.5.5, though, and it didn't seem to help much?

Also, besides the shenanigans going down in the Astrologian and Mechanist storylines, House Dzemael did have Alphinaud and Tataru arrested on false charges just to mess with House Fortemps. Isghardian politics seem just as bad as Ul'Dah politics.

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We don't know for sure if it was the entire House Dzemael that arranged for Alphinaud and Tataru's arrest. It could have just been Grinnaux acting alone in the name of his house just because he saw outsiders and wished to do some damage to House Fortemps for allowing them into Ishgard to serve as wards.

You have to remember Ishgard has been a very isolated place from the outside for so long that outsiders finally being allowed entrance still has the general populace against the idea.

They can't forget that we reclaimed their safe house in the same way we reclaimed Durendaire's twice. But there hasn't been a word of thanks from Dzaemal... At least Durendaire has recognized our achievements in Central and West Coerthas (and you're friends with the thir--second son of you're an AST). Durendaire is the most well funded House with the largest military presence; we at least have a foot in the door with them, but not Dzaemal...

I'd say that Dzaemal isn't entirely antagonist but they're shifty as hell. Grinnaux is just the tip.

With the Alphinaud + Tataru arrest, it was pointed out that Grinnaux generally stayed out of High House politics since he has no interest in it, and was most likely goaded into it because -heretiiiics-. From what I've heard of the other class quests, I'd have to say that Dzemael as a whole are the jerks of the High Houses, especially when Haillenarte is involved.

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

I'd say that Dzaemal isn't entirely antagonist but they're shifty as hell. Grinnaux is just the tip.

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I agree here.

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Originally Posted by luckyduckyfoo

With the Alphinaud + Tataru arrest, it was pointed out that Grinnaux generally stayed out of High House politics since he has no interest in it, and was most likely goaded into it because -heretiiiics-. From what I've heard of the other class quests, I'd have to say that Dzemael as a whole are the jerks of the High Houses, especially when Haillenarte is involved.

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I can see why Dzemael would be jerks to Haillenarte given that Haillenarte is the poorest of the High Houses.

Being pushy seems to run in the family and this guy might be the new lead:
http://40.media.tumblr.com/8a0bb3ce1...gedo1_1280.png
http://36.media.tumblr.com/e2257a6d7...gedo4_1280.png

I don't think House Dzaemal as a whole is entirely antagonistic as much as there are just a few jerks running around. Think about it, Count Fortemps' son were jerks too (Until their day gave them a sound lecture and a firm spanking, lol).

I'd say most of the "I am mightier than though" attitude stems from the historical perspective that set the high houses where they are today. A few thousand years of the "I'm the Lord of the Manor" mentality and naturally the pseudo-nobles are going to call himself Lords, Ladies, and Masters before the Aristocracy starts spitting on the poor for laughs.

Thus Ishgardian Politics, Pick on the poor, abuse the weak, do as you please because the law can't stop you (And pray a Dark Knight doesn't catch you red handed), then go home and feast on your privet stores of expensive food next to your giant fire and laugh while every one else freezes and starves to death.

Dzaemal seems to be the worst of the four because they are the wealthiest and most powerful in the terms of military so they look down on the other houses for being weaker and/or poorer.

No so much antagonistic as just a bunch of spoiled Jack Asses.

I wonder if we will meet Hilde's father if we delve into Ishgardian politics. It's not clear which House he belonged to.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I wonder if we will meet Hilde's father if we delve into Ishgardian politics. It's not clear which House he belonged to.

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I almost thought you meant Hildebrand, but then I remembered Hilda.

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Originally Posted by FJerome

I'd really like to see this in relation to the fact we've just gone and killed the Archbishop and 12 high-ranking knights and Aymeric seems to have covered it all up (he signs the treaty rejoining the Alliance in the name of the Archbishop, after all). Aren't the knights' families going to start missing them after a while? Inter-house politics means House Dzemael's inevitably going to start asking after Ser Grinnaux soon, if nothing else.

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Japanese dialogue makes it pretty clear everyone knows the archbishop and the knights were crazy evil. The NPCs even in the English version discuss this afterwards. It is most assuredly not covered up.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Thus Ishgardian Politics, Pick on the poor, abuse the weak, do as you please because the law can't stop you (And pray a Dark Knight doesn't catch you red handed), then go home and feast on your privet stores of expensive food next to your giant fire and laugh while every one else freezes and starves to death.

Dzaemal seems to be the worst of the four because they are the wealthiest and most powerful in the terms of military so they look down on the other houses for being weaker and/or poorer.

No so much antagonistic as just a bunch of spoiled Jack Asses.

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You dont call any of that "antagonistic"? Seriously?!

There is also the quests involving the darkhold and the machnist quest line that show that the Dyzmaels are pretty darn evil and will stoop to anything to get their way.

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Originally Posted by Shirobi

You dont call any of that "antagonistic"? Seriously?!

There is also the quests involving the darkhold and the machnist quest line that show that the Dyzmaels are pretty darn evil and will stoop to anything to get their way.

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Chaotic Nutral at wost. Remember, being a bad guy doesn't nessisarilly make you evil.

They're just a bunch of spoiled rich kids. I have a feeling though that Dzemaul may end up having a problem with the new post revelation status quo. Then they may take that full leap and need to be put down.

There's a new interview on Dengeki Online that has bios for all the Heavens' Ward and describes the layout for the Vault;

http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/127/1127365/

Marigoldsword on Tumblr has done a translation for the Heavens' Ward Bio bits here;

http://haillenarte.tumblr.com/post/1...05/translation

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Originally Posted by FJerome

Marigoldsword on Tumblr has done a translation for the Heavens' Ward Bio bits here;

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Hnnng, I just spent a major part of a day doing those, myself. <looks at spreadsheet and the clock and sheds a single tear>
At least I didn't waste my time in translating the rest of the article, lol.

I'm really curious about the Grinnaux entry. The Japanese specifically uses テンパード, as in tempered, as in... like, that kind of tempered.
Does it even have any other meaning when spelled out with katakana like that?

I'd also like to double-check on that translation for Zephirin. The article spells out コマンド (Komando), which it doesn't do for Aymeric's current title in the Temple Knights. Likewise, the bio uses the terms 次期 (next term) and 候補 (candidate). I had translated it as Zephirin being a former Temple Knight commando (or maybe a commander but not the lord commander? Idk.) that was assumed to be next-in-line for leadership until he suddenly and unexpectedly got passed up for Aymeric, but I'm doing it word by word without any knowledge of linguistic context, so I could have that impression completely wrong.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

At least I didn't waste my time on the rest of the article, lol.

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But . . . but . . . I like the rest of the article! They talk about landscaping! Landscaping.

. . . I may or may not infuriate my FC by spending every dungeon run talking about what furniture I'm going to send my retainers to steal afterwards, okay?

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Originally Posted by FJerome

But . . . but . . . I like the rest of the article!

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No, no, I mean I actually translated the rest of the article and at least don't feel like I wasted my time there, lol.

Long story short, the Dullahan and Vodoriga were summoned by powerful mages and they mimic stone until sic'd on intruders (surprise surprise, seems to be a common theme everywhere from Amdapor to Sharlayan) and the Autoknights were made by Skysteel's building upon Mammet technology from Ul'dah and Charibert suped some of them up magickally. Most of the enemies you fight aren't actually Temple Knights or Heavens' Ward, they're just normal clergy, who are trained in martial arts in case of emergency.

Also, what have we done!? For years, we've been building up this community like, Hey, guys, this story is actually pretty great! and What do you mean the JP aren't that interested in it!? and now all these fresh scoops are JP-Only and it's like Wait, come back, I can't read that.

Huh so majority of them are commonborn or born of petty lords. I had assumed they were all highborn stick ups, but it seems a few are more true neutral than chaotic evil.

I also feel ya Anonymoose; lore bits being mostly JP only is no good, because there's quite a lot of English-speaking interest. Case in point: please translate the whole thing for us ;_;

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Originally Posted by Dalvy

Huh so majority of them are commonborn or born of petty lords. I had assumed they were all highborn stick ups, but it seems a few are more true neutral than chaotic evil.

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I think most of those guys thought themselves lawful good, it's just that unfortunately the laws they lived by were inherently corrupted.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Most of the enemies you fight aren't actually Temple Knights or Heavens' Ward, they're just normal clergy, who are trained in martial arts in case of emergency.

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Aw man, and I was already feeling terrible about killing firmly sending to bed all them baby dragons. D: