Red Mage the Caster Tank

I was thinking maybe Red Mage could be a tank caster class/job. I guess if it starts from start it would be something like Spell Fencer, or maybe just Fencer, then as a job promotion it becomes Red Mage. The idea is that it's a caster job that operates as a tank. I haven't thought out every little ability or anything but the basic are as follows. The class/job first of all uses intelligence as its primary stat like all dps casters do, however it has a unique 1st level ability that works similar to Cleric Stance in away but rather than swapping Mind and Intelligence it swaps Intelligence and Vitality, thus increasing your HP so as to be more tougher. They would gain spells that they could use to attack aoe or individuals that build enmity, this spells would have really low cast times, we are talking some of the lowest in the game with at least one basic one that is instant cast, however the trade off is mp cost, and lower damage when special stance mentioned above is active.

They would still use the normal caster type gear, usually the lighter cloth armor options, however unlike casters they'd use a category of weapons similar to Rapiers called Mystic Swords or Magic Sword. Now to keep it true to the Red Mage theme from other Final Fantasy games they'd have access to a plethora of conjurers and THM skills as Cross Class skills, Cure, Aero, Raise, Blizzard II, Sure Cast, Swift Cast, ect ect ect. The way I see it, when they don't have their special stance on they can kind of DPS a little bit but aren't going to be as good as real DPS as they wont have as many high damage skills like real ones but since INT affects attack magic damage well there is that, not to mention the bonuses they'd get from gear.

Lastly in order to be able to survive as a tank, they'd need something that improves their defense and if not a little bit to their magic defense, and for this I thought of the spell M.Barrier, the name is a place holder name borrowed from FFT, but the idea is pretty much a string of traits they add a increasingly high bonus to defense every time you reach the next trait in the job that offers a hard bonus directly to the defensive stats in question.

Id honestly like a caster tank as well.Just a few things, if they do infact have castbars on anything major (main dmg reduction buffs/aggro combo) then it should be 100% uninterruptable.


As for the CC Abilities.
Swiftcast, sure.
Raise, no.
Its entirely too broken to have an instant (or even hardcast) raise on a tank

oh i didn't mean that their cross class skills should have low recast times, i would guess they would have the same recast time as their parent class. So things like Blizzard 2, Raise, ect ect would still have normal cast times, but original Red Mage spells would have low or instant cast times.

Red Mage is one of the most requested jobs and you want it butchered in to a tank? No. It should be a support based DPS like BRD/MCH, dealing reasonable damage but providing utility at the same time, since it's historically been a BLM/WHM hybrid. Could potentially be a healer, but I guarantee you that if Square announced it's to be a tank, the majority of the players will riot.

Historically, Red Mages are more like melee mages. They use swords with spells. Could work as a tank I suppose but I'd rather they emphasize the weapon effects magic stuff.

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Originally Posted by Selvokaz

oh i didn't mean that their cross class skills should have low recast times, i would guess they would have the same recast time as their parent class. So things like Blizzard 2, Raise, ect ect would still have normal cast times, but original Red Mage spells would have low or instant cast times.

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I meant raise would be instant because swiftcast > raise.

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

I meant raise would be instant because swiftcast > raise.

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Your worries are unwarranted. Raise when cross-classed can only be used outside of combat (like stoneskin2). Just try playing Paladin. They have access to Raise, but they can only cast it out of combat. If you used Arcanist's Resurrection or Astrologian's Ascend though, those are combat-ready right out of the box.

I also don't mind the stance-dancing between int and vit, as there's a potential for balancing damage, enmity generation, and armor there. However, I'm not certain how I feel about making it so you're either doing damage or taking hits. Truth is the Red Mage would need about equal VIT and INT as you also need to maintain aggro while tanking (and it is really difficult to do that in high-end raids without also doing damage).

Otherwise, try to add a bit more of the swordsman to the concept of Red Mage. As it is, I would call this class a mage with a focus on mobility instead of cast time (like a cross between Astrologian and Black Mage/Summoner). I'm also wondering what you think should be their niche in the tank circles.

Noooo! The caster tank should be where the Paladin is heading!
(I.e) http://youtu.be/1rb6P_Pf194
Red Mage might fall into a Support role!

I do love the idea of a caster tank and I have been thinking one up. The Red Mage just isn't th caster tank for me lorewise. But it's an interesting choice as a tank as I never would have considered it anything other than DPS. I would have to see an actual concept drawn out for this to get a feeling for a Red Mage as a tank.

I don't know why it would stance dance between INT and VIT instead of INT and STR though, as STR is the damage dealing factor and VIT is the HP factor. Don't forget however that it would also require a switch between skill speed and spell speed in its stance lest you want what should be a 2s cast time to be 8s.

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Originally Posted by Anova

If you used Arcanist's Resurrection or Astrologian's Ascend though, those are combat-ready right out of the box.

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AST has a level 20 trait which allows it to cast Ascend inside of battle though you're right about ACN, its trait was removed.

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I also don't mind the stance-dancing between int and vit, as there's a potential for balancing damage, enmity generation, and armor there. However, I'm not certain how I feel about making it so you're either doing damage or taking hits. Truth is the Red Mage would need about equal VIT and INT as you also need to maintain aggro while tanking (and it is really difficult to do that in high-end raids without also doing damage).

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Like I said, its not a fully fleshed out idea, but the my thoughts were that they would have a series of spells that build and hold enmity, kind of lack flash but a spell or two, one might be single target, the other might be aoe, with the stance being in vit mode it would build more enmity than normal but the trade off is you deal less damage, while in int stance the spell deals higher damage but doesn't build nearly as much enmity.

@BlueMageQuina
Hmm, i need to take a closer look at those AST traits. Also, it seems swiftcast does overwrite the out-of-combat only check on AST and CNJ's Raise. Guess that's one reason to play gladiator instead of paladin.

@Selvokaz
That sounds like the standard mechanic for tanks (i.e. sword/shield oath, grit/darkside, defiance/deliverance) and would work with anything. Is there any particular gap in tanking you think needs to be addressed, or is it simply for the flavor of a red mage? Either way is a good way to make the defining mechanic for the class (e.g. shield blocks, Dark Arts, Wrath). Instant cast on spells is a good start, but it's no different from every other tank ability that is instant with a 2.5 second cooldown (unless you're saying you want to remove the global cooldown...)