Secondary Stats barely do anything in this game. In 3.1 they are going to be adding ilvl180 (or was it 190?) crafted jewelry. Which means that people who RMT or have tons of money will have a "HUGE" advantage to people who even do Savage Raiding. This is .. not good game design, especially since most of those are required to beat said content.
Base stats are FAR FAR more valuable in this game. Which I don't think is right, we need more choice and better secondary stats honestly.
Current Crafted Jewelry is 31 strength, 29 vitality: 60 base stats.
Alexander Normal: 40 base stats.
Alexander Savage: Only 47 base stats.
If current rates are go
New Crafted Jewelry would be 31 strength (or more), 36 vitality: 67+ base stats.
Current Jewelry needs a buff to compensate or secondary stats need "need" a revamp to be on-par with the base stats of crafted Jewelry.
Accuracy: Probably the most important stat in the game, but a badly designed stat in general for the game. Don't have it? Can't hit anything. Fun...
Critical Hit Rate: Probably the second best secondary stat in the game since its different from the damage main stats. Everyone wants every piece of their gear to have this for a good reason.
Determination: Have 100 Determination? That is about 10 strength, mind, intelligence, dexterity. After its nerf for no reason the stat is .. anything but good. Its ok...
Parry: 250 Parry? That is quite the big number you got there! About 1% damage reduction total if not less! The Strength/Dexterity nerf made it pretty worthless.
Skill/Spell Speed: I really.. REALLY don't like this secondary stat at all. It ruins rotations and honestly just even with 1000 skill/spell speed it barely effects your character. Also when you have tons of it it makes you run out of MP/TP faster! They should of really put more thought into this when they designed it.
Primary Stat change:
Vitality:
Now adds a chance to riposte attacks. More Vitality=more chance to riposte.
40 Vitality=1% chance on hit to reduce damage taken by 20% and make a counter attack that is 4*level (60=240 damage base.) Yes, it can critical hit too.
Secondary Stats I recommend that would actually make a difference:
Autoattack Modifier: (Or remove autoattacks from the game completely and just use skills, would reduce lag.)
Raises the damage of autoattacks. Fairly simply, right now some DPS are doing 1400 dps and our auto-attack barely hits for anything. It is a much needed addition to the game. Honestly though, this game doesn't really need auto-attacks.
Riposte Damage:
Each point of "Riposte Damage" adds 2 damage to riposting and 2 enmity.
Critical Hit Chance:
Instead of a number it is base percent.
5% = 5%, 1% = 1%. Much more satisfying to see a base percent then crunch numbers. Trust me, it makes the game funner too.
Critical Hit Bonus
Critical hits deal more damage. Self-Explanatory.
Each point of "Critical Hit Bonus" adds 2 damage to critical hits.
TP Reduction:
Reduces the cost of skills that use TP by percent. Same as Critical Hit chance, completely percent based.
5% = 5%, 1% = 1%.
MP Reduction
Reduces the cost of spells that use MP by percent. Same as Critical Hit chance, completely percent based.
5% = 5%, 1% = 1%.
Haste
Pretty much already in the game as "Attack Speed", but not on gear.
Increases reuse/gcd of all skills/spells. Based completely on percent.
5% = 5%, 1% = 1%.
This would mean you could actually build your character more the way you want to build it. Which would actually be pretty fun to the game.
Can we make secondary stats not worthless?
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09-08-2015, 04:29 AMNektulos-TuorCan we make secondary stats not worthless?
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09-08-2015, 04:36 AMValkyrie_Lenneth
Your secondary stats already exist, they just arent listed as such. skill/spell speed reduces skill time, crit effects rate and crit damage.
Aslo, you dont like skill speed/spell speed, but want haste, which would do the exact same thing? I'm confused on this point.
I'm kind of shocked someone can achieve that post count in that short amount of time. Any time i see you on here its pretty much some kind of complaint thread. -
09-08-2015, 04:40 AMabzoluut
Some people actually make gil in game. I like it to be able to spend it on crafted accessories for example. By the time 3.1 hits, most people will be overgeared for savage anyways.
I do believe secondary stats should have a bigger influence. However, it will remain the same since X combination of gear will be BiS.
What SE needs to implement is gear that grows with you and which allows you, after clearin X content for example, to alter the secondary stats on it instead of ilvl > stats. -
09-08-2015, 04:55 AMAshkendorFitting an extra Fire IV into your rotation is ruining it? Okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-08-2015, 05:10 AMYeldir
This really only applies to tanks, as far as I can tell. More vitality, while nice for other roles, is not generally an optimal choice when it comes to progression - you're given enough HP by default to deal with the mechanics, whereas a tank with a ridiculous hit point pool enjoys kind of a defensive force multiplier that benefits the entire raid in an obvious way.
As a dps role, no amount of additional vit on rings at the expense of dps substats is going to move me towards crafted jewelry. I shouldn't be taking enough hits to make the additional vitality more useful than substats.
I'm not even sure I'll be able to use crafted jewelry to dump unused accuracy for an increase in damage output. I've tried going down a tier to an item with no accuracy and superior substats and the result was always mediocre, due to how insanely weighted to primary stats potency tends to be. It would be interesting if we could pop primary stat materia into a piece of jewelry that shares the same primary stat - but I can't remember ever seeing a jewelry item that didn't start at its primary stat's cap, and I doubt they'll start allowing that now. -
09-08-2015, 05:11 AMCGMidlander
They're worth pretty little per point, but we get a lot more of them compared to pre-HW, so they aren't 100% worthless
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09-08-2015, 05:22 AMIromi
I'm over here still waiting for our 1.x stats they said we'd get back...
._. -
09-08-2015, 05:32 AMNektulos-TuorCompared to Primary Stats. They are pretty worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMidlander
That is the main issue. -
09-08-2015, 05:40 AMWaliel
I'd like to point out that Monks do anywhere between 25-30% of their damage through auto-attacks that you describe to be "useless". I'm also trying to figure out how getting rid of auto-attacks would reduce lag.
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09-08-2015, 06:08 AMNektulos-TuorCan't make the spells/abilities do more damage to compensate? Also I really.. really do not think that its 30% of their damage. I thought their spells did most of their damage but whatever I don't play monk so what do I know. =PQuote:
Originally Posted by Waliel
Anyways, if that is true you can always adjust monks damage. As for lag. Think about everyone in the game in combat rolling that extra attack for autoattack. That creates another thing the server has to go through.
However, I like/hate autoattacks. I like them in EQ2/EQ1 where they are super powerful. -
09-08-2015, 06:15 AMVeloxThey aren't worthless because they actually have some effect. They just aren't "overpowered" which kids these days use as a standard for usefulness. Secondaries are balanced in a way so that a player can pick and choose any combo he wants and still complete 100% of all the game's content. If they were scaled stronger, eventually you'd get to a point where everyone has to have the same stat combinations or else they would be denied partys, further drifting away from build freedom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-08-2015, 06:24 AMNektulos-TuorThey are for the most part "worthless" sides Accuracy compared to main stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Velox
Everyone DOES have the same STAT combinations.
This is FF not WoW. Everyone is pretty much the same.
Main stats are almost 10 times better. Which is BAD. -
09-08-2015, 06:40 AMNiadissa
While on this topic, I'd really like to see resistances make a come back. (won't happen I know, but doesn't stop me from wanting it)
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09-08-2015, 07:14 AMSinisterJointss
Opened thread, seen it was Nektulos, didn't even read.
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09-08-2015, 07:16 AMAwful
I'd like to see different stat weights/combos in this game but it won't happen. As for haste being in the game SE stated they said they wouldn't put it in the game as it was overpowered in FF11. They're already balancing this game enough as it is I like the way it is now but as a main tank I don't ever go fending which is sad. I'd rather them see them do something with vit.
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09-08-2015, 07:21 AMObysucaJust going to be that guy and say, it's not so much required, as it is players want to rush through endgame the day its out >_> SE most likely intended people to gear up in eso first, then tackle it. We already have a huge lack of content to do at 60, so if people waited it out and geared up with eso, by the time they're i200, new endgame will be out and then they can go ahead and complete the current one, get that gear and tackle the new one. It would also extend the life of content, rather than the current trend of "beat it in the first week, now its trash". What sounds more fun? A single endgame with 4 bosses that people completely stop doing in 4-5 months, or wait it out, gear up in eso so you can do it the way its intended and with the time taken to gear up, the next one set of floors will be out, so you can start tackling the first set, gear up and proceed on to do the new set, extending the life of the previous floors, which then you'd have 8 bosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
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09-08-2015, 07:31 AMWindklinge
might add crit defense to tank gear for example. directly counters critchance of mobs. the more the less likely youre getting hit by crits. which can be a huge issue in some fights if the wrong autohit crits at the worst time your tank can die without beeing able to do anything about it because 2 min cd on awareness and not beeing able to tell when next hit will crit. aka fucked by RNG.
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09-08-2015, 07:37 AMNektulos-TuorCrit Defence, Tenacity, Accuracy bla bla, all of those are pretty much the same things. Stuff the developers put into the game to hold people back. Bad game design in my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Windklinge
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09-08-2015, 07:50 AMGilraenOn this I have to disagree rather substantially. What I've seen is people not going for stats at all, instead chasing max iL. I, on the very much other end, do not. I DO go for stats. I will get the best iL I can... from the gear with the best stats I can find. I have enough accuracy to not miss in all but Savage Alexander, and most pieces I wear has the most crit for it's iL outside of Savage Alexander. I'm still chasing better gear, but better in ways I can use (got the Berinbau only so I can maybe someday beat Bismark Extreme so I can fight Ravana Extreme to get a Hive Bow, which is infinitely better in my opinion, that and there's no telling on if the Berinbau is the seed for Mythic).Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
Guess you don't see the Asuran Eyepatch in my picture, then. That's not a glamour, and it's not being replaced anytime soon. It has the best crit stat outside of Savage Alexander, and I have no plans of tackling that raid. Again, I don't chase iL for iL's sake, I chase better stats. If it has better iL it's just a happy side effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
Append: Yes, PvP gear does have better crit. It also needs a certain level of PvP rank and alot of marks. Two things I do not have in any real supply. I don't really care for PvP and it's not really all that important an endeavor to the game at large. -
09-08-2015, 07:56 AMNektulos-TuorEveryone DOES have the same STAT combinations. Due to secondary stats being almost completely pointless outside of accuracy which comes with Ilvl gear anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
For your astounding discovery you have been awarded with http://i.imgur.com/mTbpb1h.png.
http://img.pandawhale.com/145363-Shi...g-gif-Vgr7.gif
That was my point. More Ilvl (besides crafted gear.) means more base stats, more stats means more base stats like strength, vitality, dexterity. That means more power. Main stats are so much better then secondary stats getting 2-3 more points means more then anything else. Which means there is no point, everyone is the same.
Main stats are so much better then the secondary stats the secondary stats are almost completely ignored now making everyone pretty much the same.
The PvP gear has better crit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilraen
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/3228ec51fdf/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...m/b0c3d7d299d/ -
09-08-2015, 08:31 AMWindklingesame can be said about RNG basicly. only there to frustrate people and make em waste more time^^ bad game design aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor
but i agree about accuracy. basicly unnessarcy stat alltogether that steals other stat points for the sake of stealing em. -
09-08-2015, 10:38 AMGiantbane
If there's a problem, it's:
Tanks have 2 primary stats (vit/str) which puts a heavy emphasis on crafted accessories that can use these stats.
Parry is very weak and often ignored by tanks. Being too weak on a point/point basis + being completely RNG dependent + doesn't do anything vs. magical attacks (and a lot of endgame content is very magic heavy) means that most tanks don't want it. I *thought* they recognized this was a problem in 2.0 and were going to take steps to fix this. However, by removing the ability of STR to buff parry and then making a lot of magic based encounters, they've actually weakened this stat.
Skill speed/Spell speed are split stats which hurts classes with physical and magical attacks (primarily DRK & PLD). I'm not sure there's a good reason for them to be separate stats. Crit & Det both work on spells & physical skills. It seems reasonable to have a single speed stat that improves both skill speed and spell speed.
Crit/Det/Acc/Piety are all strong enough for what they are. -
09-08-2015, 10:44 AMNadirahHaste affects both, which consolidated two redundant stats. Would also allow skill speed to affect Clemency and Stoneskin cast times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth
He did this on EQ2Flames as well. Though post count racking isn't really hard. I mean look at mine... Had a fc mate go "wtf" when he saw it. -
09-08-2015, 10:46 AMNadirahYou mean where they had to redo combat system because multiattack broke the server?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor