Ridiculous amount of Bots...

This has probably been brought up in the past, since I know they have always been a problem. But when I was on Excalibur, mostly the issue was getting tells from gil-sellers. I saw a few bots harvesting sometimes, too. But not too, too much. This was over a year ago though so it could have changed.

Anyway, now I play on Tonberry and the amount of bots I've seen is absolutely ridiculous. I reported over 20 yesterday alone and I saw even more today... MOST of them are THMs for whatever reason. If a GM just sat inside the THM guild all day, they'd probably be able to blast a crap load of 'em.

As much as I'd love to make the game a better place for everyone, I have to wonder if it's even worth it to waste my time reporting all of these bots. It's tedious to do and I feel like I'm not making a difference at all.
Thoughts? Do you report bots when you see them? Do you feel like (or know if) SE actually investigates all the bot reports?

I have been noticing an uptick in bots on multiple servers (Famfrit, Excalibur, a little bit on Gilgamesh). Sometimes I actually see the buggers and their nonsense names and lines of clones or see whoever it is whispering folks standing next to me. It seems like it's gotten worse lately.

There was a ban wave recently right? Maybe they're recovering. Never underestimate the resourcefulness of botters.

Seems like a pointless battle to me. Those boys buy copies of the game and pay subs so from a business standpoint SE probably loves botters lol I've always thought they only ban em after an unspoken amount of looking the other way while soaking up $.

Im still playing on Busy Mode!

Since end 2014. <<;

But I still get rmt spam from bots standing around on Big Blue teleport Crystals and/or near Market Boards and spaming there crap on "Say chat" -.-

only one spam since 3.0 here. wopwop.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

I have been noticing an uptick in bots on multiple servers (Famfrit, Excalibur, a little bit on Gilgamesh). Sometimes I actually see the buggers and their nonsense names and lines of clones or see whoever it is whispering folks standing next to me. It seems like it's gotten worse lately.

There was a ban wave recently right? Maybe they're recovering. Never underestimate the resourcefulness of botters.

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Ban waves do nothing. The instant a long withheld ban wave is done, they've already prepared other accounts to be in full force with the gil to sell. Recreating dozens, hundreds, thousands of characters and accounts is literally what RMT bots do every single day. That's exactly why anytime someone links to their actions against RMT post on Lodestone, as some form of meaningful movement, it makes me facepalm. Unless the devs/GMs are willing to actively take a stand against them every day (which means account bans, credit card lockouts, etc. every hour), it's a losing battle. The original strategy of giving it time to pinpoint the cluster RMT to ban them does not work anymore. If it did, we'd see them go away... but it literally does nothing to stop them.

They've always been around, despite many people claiming not to have seen their presence for a long time. Folks should not mistake situational circumstance for credited actions taken. What server are you on? What time of the day do you play? How populated is it? Does your server suffer lockouts at any given point of the day? Is it a JP server? Was it when a new patch went live? Was it during the population spike caused when Heavensward launched? So on and so forth. Any given variable, including ones like frequency of people on your server being potential buyers (be it a lot or none), can affect this. The only way to minimize their presence is to improve quality of life so they're not as annoying. They're an inevitable evil that cannot be stopped from doing what they do. The sooner the devs and playerbase realize this, the sooner changes can be made... unless the devs honestly couldn't give a damn, which is likely the case here. I mean, even the players (myself included), have learned to just ignore them and /tell in general (/busy). Some folks use addons to filter chat, since SE will not. Proper chat filters are seriously the best way to quell the angst about their rampant advertising. SE refuses this, for some stupid reason... probably under the reason that the servers can't handle it. We're two years into this reboot games life and there's been very little done to improve this elementary level problem since 2.0 launched. The last thing was to remove the ability to send friend requests from free accounts, which, while significant, was something that should have been done LONG before 3.0 patch. Them not having done that earlier is more of a blunder than it is a result of actions taken against RMT... since free trial accounts was an intentional addition after launch and the knowledge that RMT exists here.

I like the devs for this game, but man can they be ridiculously naive about the bad habits that exist in their game and how things work because of that. Honestly, it's likely just a "meh" situation for them. It's just like botting in this game. 99.9% of the time, you'll be perfectly fine with no repercussions. As long as you're not blatantly hacking or something, GMs will generally turn a blind eye because it's next to impossible to determine bot from player with the lack of resources they're given and the time-frame they decide to investigate it. I know of many non-RMT players on the server that bot, some of whom use speed hacks while doing it, but nothing has ever happened to them despite numerous reports AND video evidence of suspicious behavior over many months. This is unfortunately not unexpected, given Yoshi-P's leniency towards cheating behavior (i.e. win trading). Back to the RMT though, it is what it is, so don't expect much change lol. They're actively a part of your FFXIV experience, just like bad groups, so just gotta accept that.

I actually haven't received a single tell about buying gil, so thank the twelve for that! But it's just that I see a ton of them lined up with keyboard mashed names all mirroring each other, hopping around the map from one spot to another with their strange instant teleporting.

It saddens me to think that SE would keep bots around just for the sake of them purchasing a subscription. Honestly though, wouldn't it be more money? Since then they would have to pay for another sub in order to continue doing what they're doing. Although I suppose at the end of the day it would have to be profitable enough for them to continue doing it. I'd continue reporting them if I felt like SE was listening, but with how many I've been seeing lately it's hard to believe that they are.. :(

I don't get why people think bots "buy" more copies of the game. At least a good chunk of accounts are stolen.

@Welsper59: Well, that's kind of what I was assuming which is why I asked in the first place. Didn't want to be wasting my time if SE doesn't take it seriously. On one hand, I thought it could be that most people don't report because they think it's pointless and that's why there's so many. But on the other, it could be that they just don't care. Unfortunately, it seems like it's the latter then. :/

My server is almost constantly locked out. I guess I realize why now; it's not because it's actually super populated, but just that bots are constantly making accounts. That's such a shame. I bet if SE offered some players to be bot-GM's where they had the power to ban bots, and asked them to do it x amount of hours a week in exchange for a free sub or exclusive items, there'd be tons willing to do it (although then you may run into issues of people banning real players for spite, etc). But I mean, there are options. They're just not interesting in fixing it, it would seem.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I don't get why people think bots "buy" more copies of the game. At least a good chunk of accounts are stolen.

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Usually from people keylogged whilst trying to buy RMT on websites that don't have any yet to sell.

Supply and demand, where the demand creates the supply. Ironic, isn't it.

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Originally Posted by Mikki

I actually haven't received a single tell about buying gil, so thank the twelve for that! But it's just that I see a ton of them lined up with keyboard mashed names all mirroring each other, hopping around the map from one spot to another with their strange instant teleporting.

It saddens me to think that SE would keep bots around just for the sake of them purchasing a subscription. Honestly though, wouldn't it be more money? Since then they would have to pay for another sub in order to continue doing what they're doing. Although I suppose at the end of the day it would have to be profitable enough for them to continue doing it. I'd continue reporting them if I felt like SE was listening, but with how many I've been seeing lately it's hard to believe that they are.. :(

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Ignoring conspiracy theories, RMT are generally not a source of income. Most of the time, the credit card information that is used is either stolen or manipulated in some way, which means a LOSS of money for SE if fraudulent claims are made. Likewise, stolen active accounts don't result in more money than what is already being made from the legit owner. It's likely however that the loss does not occur as often as people think and it just results in more of a "meh" situation.

Reporting is unnecessarily tedious in this game, so for that reason alone, it's not worth doing for RMT IMO. I'm not going to waste my time any more than I already had during our naive period with 2.0 launch and reporting the terror that was /shout and /tell spam, hoping to see at least the obvious combat bots banned but never do. Until SE decides to change the way they handle RMT, then realistically, there's no point to it. Report legit players badly behaving if you see it. While they likely won't do anything about bots, they're very adamant about combating harassment and threats between players.

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Originally Posted by Amberyl

Usually from people keylogged whilst trying to buy RMT on websites that don't have any yet to sell.

Supply and demand, where the demand creates the supply. Ironic, isn't it.

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This is actually one of those situations that only have a small part of the whole truth. It's not the usual way accounts are stolen here, it's just one of many. Keylogging can occur from any site. WoW had an instance where users of, I think, MMO-Champion were vulnerable to a hack with an imbedded virus for going to their popular site. The virus itself didn't do much for the users, but could lead to being a backdoor for things like keyloggers and so on. Also, consider hacked Twitter and Facebook accounts. A lot of the time, it's because people clicked or did something they shouldn't have, definitely. Others though, it just happens because of general hack attempts (most of which involved weak passwords).

I've had friends from Tonberry recently migrate to Balmung and they did mention botting is a huge issue on Tonberry. It's apparently so rampant there that actual players (not just RMT) will also commonly bot to make gil.

Their first comment when porting to N Thanalan was about how there was nobody botting there.

The ones I know the "parking place" for on Faerie seem to get replaced once a week or so. They do get banned but they come back almost immediately, new name same appearance. They do want to smack them down in order to improve the quality of experience for real players and punish RMTs, which are bad for business. Sadly, it's impossible to keep up.

I still get RMT tells every day, so I either switch to busy if they're too pestering or just ignore them.

What I haven't seen much lately are the gathering bots that were so common in 2.xx.
I think SE idea of placing gathering nodes so far apart one from the other with mobs in the middle which will aggro you served its purpose (seems bots can't "mount and fly")

I am from Tonberry, too, and Ive never been bothered by bot tells. Some do exist tho, but those are bots used to do fates for the players ... which is something I wont blame them for.

Thank you Lich...for not having many RMT sellers....
or at least VOCAL ones.. it's been pretty quiet for me since HW.

I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done about the bots or RMT problem. They are here to stay, let's just face the fact. We can bring up the issue infinite times and nothing will be done about it. I stopped voicing my opinion on the matter long ago now since they are ignored along with everyone's. SE could have redeemed themselves with these issues but it has gone way too long now, they could have implemented something during expansion but nope, nothing, zilch, nada.

Deal with it folks.

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Originally Posted by Franchesca

I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done about the bots or RMT problem. They are here to stay, let's just face the fact. We can bring up the issue infinite times and nothing will be done about it. I stopped voicing my opinion on the matter long ago now since they are ignored along with everyone's. SE could have redeemed themselves with these issues but it has gone way too long now, they could have implemented something during expansion but nope, nothing, zilch, nada.

Deal with it folks.

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What do you think they should have implemented to handle the botting problem?

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Originally Posted by Adrasteia

What do you think they should have implemented to handle the botting problem?

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They should implement their ban-hammer rights. Bot/RMT team gets multiple reports of botting > go investigate (in person if they have to) > confirm = immediate account ban.

I think a lot of the time they play "follow the Bot/RMT trail"; I'd rather they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Adrasteia

What do you think they should have implemented to handle the botting problem?

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They could have limited the number characters created after ban or have blacklist effect on ban person's account and not just character. I mean seriously, there are countless ways said in the forums.

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Originally Posted by Franchesca

They could have limited the number characters created after ban or have blacklist effect on ban person's account and not just character. I mean seriously, there are countless ways said in the forums.

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Is it confirmed that they simply delete the character instead of banning the account outright?

The bots seem to teleport and jump across maps. Is there no way for the game to detect these kind of things to help prevent botting? I know that won't get rid of the issue entirely, but it would certainly help if the game could pick up on these strange patterns and then ban the players immediately when it's detected. Also if it can pick up on constant patterns (such as always running the same path for hours on end - it would be difficult for a real person to run EXACTLY the same path a million times over). I'm not the most tech-savvy person in the world, but I would think that it should be possible for them to somehow pick up on suspicious behavior...

It's such a shame. Tonberry is great other than the ridiculous amount of bots......... I haven't gotten into crafting on this character yet but I shudder to think what the market will look like...

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Originally Posted by Mikki

The bots seem to teleport and jump across maps. Is there no way for the game to detect these kind of things to help prevent botting? I know that won't get rid of the issue entirely, but it would certainly help if the game could pick up on these strange patterns and then ban the players immediately when it's detected. Also if it can pick up on constant patterns (such as always running the same path for hours on end - it would be difficult for a real person to run EXACTLY the same path a million times over). I'm not the most tech-savvy person in the world, but I would think that it should be possible for them to somehow pick up on suspicious behavior...

It's such a shame. Tonberry is great other than the ridiculous amount of bots......... I haven't gotten into crafting on this character yet but I shudder to think what the market will look like...

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When I asked a GM about detecting an MPK attempt, I was told that they don't have a means to finding detailed info of common events or actions that are done by the game itself (e.g. mobs aggroing or using AoE that doesn't hit anyone). That would likely also apply to things like server based information about gathering nodes. Locally stored files that house info like time, coordinates, and so forth are likely included in the data that is sent between you and the server. Long distance teleporting gatherers, hacks that involve single swings to gather all mats from a node, and instant leveling (something RMT used a lot of during 2.0) probably have these time stamps on them, which would allow a GM or the STF (if that's even still a thing) to determine if someone is cheating. Seeing someone completely gather from 20 nodes in Heavensward areas in a timespan of 1min is an obvious red flag, for example. Likewise if you magically went from one zone to another in a matter of a few seconds.

Things like repeat patterns simply based on movement but no unusual interaction involved is evidence visually, but reading it through the server data will show nothing suspicious. This is why certain speed and teleport hacks, unless observed firsthand by a GM, will more than likely go unpunished. If they're being used somewhat realistically, even if visually not, the data will not show anything unusual. Even though this player that is clearly botting has spun around for 1 second, and runs to the next node and does other repeat movements before interacting with the node, the data will show absolutely nothing different from a legit player running from A to B. 1.5x normal speed of running or by mount will likely be unnoticeable unless done over a long period of time without interruption (dismounting, Heavy status, etc). Honestly, I can't always blame GMs for not taking actions against players who obviously cheat. A lot of the time it's just the lack of resources/tools or even just outright protocol that prevents them from doing so. Bots are (typically) next to impossible to detect unless someone applies a ridiculous hack alongside its use or a GM has firsthand account and attempted communication to determine bot behavior. The data alone usually won't be enough.

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Originally Posted by Franchesca

<snip> or have blacklist effect on ban person's account and not just character. I mean seriously, there are countless ways said in the forums.

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Report RMT spam bots under 'report harassment', giving details (including the /say or /tell). The account will be banned (or frozen... w/ever, same result) within minutes. The account is then no longer usable, so I do not see how an 'account wide' ban would affect this issue.

Don't use the 'report cheating' option for spam bots. It's next to useless, but then the account wide blist may prove some use to you. But why bother when the account can be stopped within minutes using 'report harassment'.

Oh I see a lot of these buggers on Siren, it grows old fast.

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Originally Posted by Adrasteia

What do you think they should have implemented to handle the botting problem?

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the option to block tells from players on free trials, like they did with friend requests.

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Originally Posted by RosaBlanche

the option to block tells from players on free trials, like they did with friend requests.

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I would have prefferd an option to block tells from brand new characters entirely. I doubt a single legit person just starting the game will just randomly send tells to people. all day.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I don't get why people think bots "buy" more copies of the game. At least a good chunk of accounts are stolen.

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If this is true and Square Enix really wants to kill bots why not give out free physical/mobilephone authenticators and make them mandatory to log on. It would be an inconvenience to some but wouldn't it make the likelyhood of peoples accounts being hacked and stolen for gold spamming purposes much less likely?

i just wish they got numbered like the black mages from the blackmage village as i constantly see large groups of them they don't talk or even acknowledge i am there i now know how vivi felt in ff9 lol

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Originally Posted by Xanikk999

If this is true and Square Enix really wants to kill bots why not give out free physical/mobilephone authenticators and make them mandatory to log on. It would be an inconvenience to some but wouldn't it make the likelyhood of peoples accounts being hacked and stolen for gold spamming purposes much less likely?

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Because:

A) it still would cost Square money to give people "free" physical security tokens and those costs have to be made up elsewhere (higher price to buy the game or higher subscription fees for example)

B) Believe it or not, not everyone has a cell phone (shocking I know) and others may not want to be hassled with installing more software on their phone. It's like requiring someone to have a Twitter account before they're allowed to play a game they paid for.

C) While security tokens in general are supposed to prevent accounts from being stolen so easily, it won't protect you if the thief gets a hold of your email account or other information they can use to crack into your Square Enix account (phishing and keylogging being a few examples on how the more clever attackers can get to your stuff, even with a security token)


In a nutshell, you can't outright eliminate RMTs/gil sellers/bots completely, but you can make it more difficult for them to profit from the game. A lot of items in game can't be traded or sold to other players, leveling up past 50 requires buying the expansion pack, gathering materials in the new 3.0 areas is more busywork (and somewhat more dangerous) than in 2.0, and so on. While I am on Balmung, a server that is known for having very few RMT spam, as soon as 3.0 launched, I pretty much never gotten a single RMT message ever again. I sometimes see the occasional group of bots hanging around in the 2.0 areas, but nothing more than that. I cannot say this is the same for other servers, but I can safely assume that Square fighting the bots and RMT can involve more than just ban waves. Doesn't mean that everything is perfectly fine, but I can see what they are at least trying to do.

not only low lv bot, the most gross ones are the high lv bots. For example, North Thanalan the FATE bots. You can see lots of them have nice barding too. All of them will return to a certain given point every time when there is no fate on the map. and they won't move a single bit until there is a FATE popped. For certain FATE like the Century Road, they will be on follow to the npc. before the first group, they will stop at the east side of the first spawn group on mounts. When the first group popped they will jump down then do the bot things...

there are high lv mining bot too for these time-popped spots like thanalan topsoil.
Its extremely to spot them. for example the Thanalan topsoil, go to West Thanalan @ 6am. These bots will stop in the middle of 3 possible spots, always the same spot, for 3 seconds.
http://i.imgur.com/TI3dd33.jpg
for example this bot always show up between 6:10am to 6:12am ET and stop at that spot (most of them stopped at that spot).

Then, they will move to the actual spot and mining.
http://i.imgur.com/ETPwRFo.jpg
like this bot always stand on top of the rock and mining that unspoiled spot. (sorry the lala is too small... and it's raining in game...)

I think it's just something move them to certain place, then do a scan of the area for the real mining position. Then, these bots will immediately teleport to South Shroud.

If you look at these bots, they are all with forager's set and HQed accessories too. They are spiritbinding and someone supply them these crafted items.

The worst is I need to see these bots constantly... so gross...
Reported many of them, teleporting bots, automatic bots and then you just found out later: they are still there BOTTING. / . \

I already gave up reporting for a while... it's hopeless / . \

I need to train myself to be a bot-blind person to feel better... there is no justice...