Why is there no job with rogue as a secondary class?

I just realized that there aren't any jobs with rogue as a secondary or even tertiary class. Heavensward didn't even introduce a job with rogue as a secondary.

I think they need to introduce a new job with rogue as a secondary class. What are your thoughts on this?

That's because Rogue was added later in the game.

And no class has it as secondary because the cross skills it has pale in comparison to others like Lancer or Pugilist

it was added after all the non-HW classes, they didnt retroactively change x-class for anyone, since by the time Rogue/NIN came around, what x-class skill every job use was pretty much already set in stone and job balance took that into account. Changing x-class for a job would require considerable amount of re-balancing.
It wouldn't make any sense for DRK or AST to have Rogue skills, MCH could have prb gotten it instead of LNC if something that replaces Invigorate and BFB in their own toolkit.
And really, the fact HW jobs are jobs and contribute nothing to the x-class system means they are probably just gonna move away from this whole thing altogether.

While I agree with you, I can understand the reason why this is not the case YET. Since we got rogue, there is on one job that could practically make use of cross class skills from rogue, and that's machinist, which is archer and lancer, while I personally believe that rogue and archer would have fit the "lore" of the job better, moves like blood for blood and invigorate make lancer a much better class to be cross classed with.

TLDR - too early, MCH only likely job right now, lancer is better choice

I would love more classes with Goad though, sweet sweet cross classed TP regen

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I would love more classes with Goad though, sweet sweet cross classed TP regen

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Out of curiosity. what's the refresh potency of non-traited goad?

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Originally Posted by DestinovaTrueblade

Out of curiosity. what's the refresh potency of non-traited goad?

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I'm pretty sure it's 30 TP per tick

come to think of it, perfect dodge would have been op as hell if any tank could get it. :D

These are my ideas for possible cross-class abilities.
Shade Shift - great idea for tanks
Mutilate - an extra DoT
Assassinate - great for any melee DPS
Goad - great TP restore (a healer could easily use this to restore tank's TP)
Jugulate - an extra silence attack

They would have probably nerfed non traited version of all those skills if they were x-class skills. They did that for BFB and IR back in 2.1 to nerf Bard

Shadeshift - would have prb been nerfed to 10% as a x-class if tanks can get it, consider that SE thought 18% stone skin was too much mitigation. For MNK and DRG, its better than Forsight by a mile.
Mutilate - strictly better than fracture for 20 pot, but drg or mnk still prb wont use it much for the same reason they dont use fracture
Assassinate - would just replace Mercy Stroke for MNK and DRG
Goad - would make BRD/MCH angry if multiple jobs can now restore each other's TP, hell, it would reduce NIN's own utility value, so I dont see this as possible without it the non-trait version being worse.
Jugulate - for the most part would just be an extra pot 80 attack, since silence hasnt been useful for a pretty long time

Melee would make sense, but while i would love to replace the Marauder x-class i use on DRG and MNK with Goad, Assassinate and shadeshift, they couldnt do that without nerfing any of em otherwise they'd screw over NIN.
BRD and MCH are better off with what they have currently, their current x-class is too good to pass up.
Caster having NIN x-class would not only be odd, but would be mostly impractical anyway.
Healers having NIN x-class would be even weirder. Not that any of them would want it, since CNJ, THM and ACN skills are rather indispensable to them.
Shadeshift and Goad would be amazing for tanks, but I doubt SE would straight up buff all 3 of em like that.

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Originally Posted by DestinovaTrueblade

Caster having NIN x-class would not only be odd, but would be mostly impractical anyway.
Healers having NIN x-class would be even weirder. Not that any of them would want it, since CNJ, THM and ACN skills are rather indispensable to them.
Shadeshift and Goad would be amazing for tanks, but I doubt SE would straight up buff all 3 of em like that.

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I agree that it would be odd for a caster or healer to have rogue as a cross-class.
I just hope that in the future they make a class that has rogue cross-class abilities.
I feel like not having any other jobs with rogue as a secondary class may keep some people from creating a NIN because they won't have any other jobs that use rogue.

So you basically want to remove most of the identity of Rog/Nin by giving most of their signature skills to other classes?

They are already moving away from secondary classes (see new Jobs added in HW) and have said they want to shift away from the older style of needing 2 classes leveled to achieve a Job.

I imagine during the next few patches or next expac, the skill set and cross classing will have a huge overhaul. Button bloat is already an issue, so when they add anymore, they are really going to have to address the idea of only allowing a certain number of skills to be equipped and making you pick and choose (we have this slightly with cross classing already)

The class system (i.e. the stuff before jobs) is a relic of 1.0 and is something SE seems keen on minimizing as much as possible. I doubt anything more will be done with it, unless they decide to do a complete rehaul sometime in the future.

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Originally Posted by m3eansean

So you basically want to remove most of the identity of Rog/Nin by giving most of their signature skills to other classes?

They are already moving away from secondary classes (see new Jobs added in HW) and have said they want to shift away from the older style of needing 2 classes leveled to achieve a Job.

I imagine during the next few patches or next expac, the skill set and cross classing will have a huge overhaul. Button bloat is already an issue, so when they add anymore, they are really going to have to address the idea of only allowing a certain number of skills to be equipped and making you pick and choose (we have this slightly with cross classing already)

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Okay. I wasn't aware that they were moving away from secondary classes.

At this point, I'd rather just have Thief (THF) added in so I get to play Rogue without mudra lag and have some more rogue-like identity as a job.