How does magica work ?

Miaou !
It've been few days that i'm looking for some information about magica.
I know that the quests will answer to my questions but i've no time to do them all :p
Maybe there is already a topic about that, but i havn"t found it.
So, I'm looking for knowing how magica works. For exemple, Arcanic use algorithmes. But I'm looking for more details. The history of the black mage for an other exemple. I only have few details about void and that is forbiden to teach and what else ? :)

If you know where i can found some answers... :)
Thank you :)

hmm, i guess i can try to explain how Aether, kinda works if im not wrong. Well, first of all, nearly everything is made of aether, regardless its form or concentration.

there is the vital aether (wich is explained how it works in a lvl 50 main quest) with the cycle, with the void, with the aetherflow.

then there is also the magic itself. Some races (as far as we know, garleans can't) can draw the aether from its surroundings and channel it as an attack. It is also possible to use your OWN aether but its like, using your own soul (conjurer quests)


some people can even use massive amounts of aether/prayer to be vessels for primal summoning, when that person gets weak/the crystal aether ends. there are 2 options, you can either suspend it, or you can feed the primal being off your own aether, wich ends with the person phisical form disapearing afterwards. Leaving no phisical body behind.

not sure if it answers what you wanted but if you have more questions/ want to reformulate , say and ill try to answer!

its weird cause aether is drawn from crystals yet you can cast spells which is drawn from aether from anywhere without crystals

If you start the game as a CNJ when you first visit the CNJ's Guild the receptionist gives a basic explanation about how magic in a broad sense works, it is the manipulation of aether - the difference is in how each class/Job actually uses that aether and, more importantly, where they source it from:

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Originally Posted by Main Scenario Quest 'A Good Adventurer is Hard to Find'

Madelle: "You seek the secrets of conjury, adventurer? Then search no longer, for you have found your way to the Conjurer's Guild."
Madelle: "It is at Miounne's request that you have come? Then allow me to provide you with an overview of what it is to be a conjurer."
Madelle: "Conjury is the art of healing and purification. Its practitioners harness the power of nature, that they might bring about change in the form of spells."
Madelle: "Primitive magic such as that once wrought by individuals known as mages-meaning those with the ability to manipulate aether-has existed since the dawn of time."
Madelle: "It was not until some five centuries ago that conjury emerged from this shapeless agglomeration of spells and charms-an event that led to the founding of Gridania."
Madelle: "In those dark days, the elementals would not suffer man's presence in the Twelveswood, forcing our forebears to make their homes beneath the earth, in the great subterranean city of Gelmorra."
Madelle: "But their desire to settle in the Twelveswood continued to burn fiercely; time and again they sought to curry the elementals' favour."
Madelle: "Unlike men and other creatures bound in temples of flesh, the elementals are beings of pure aether. Recognizing this, the mages of eld reasoned that their talent for aetheric manipulation might allow them to communicate with these theretofore enigmatic entities."
Madelle: "It took five long decades, but our forebears finally succeeded. Their reward: the elementals' permission to dwell in the Twelveswood. So it was that the nation of Gridania was born."
Madelle: "Since that time, the elementals have taught us to live as one with nature, speaking to all Gridanians through the Hearers-those mages who are able to commune with them."
Madelle: "And for their intimacy with the elementals, the Hearers would go on to attain great mastery over the forces of nature. Thus did they conceive the art of conjury."

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So there you have it - magic in a broad sense is basically the mainpulation of aether, where that aether comes from and how it's used determined by exactly what class or Job the mage is. In a nutshell the basic types of magic in terms of class are:

Conjury is the borrowing of aether from the surrounding environment (specifically from the elementals) and channeled through a staff or wand 'of unworked wood' into the desired spell.
Thaumaturgy is the manipulation of aether from the user's own lifeforce by deep meditation and introspection, channeling it through a metal wand or scepter with a medium in the form of a gemstone. This school of magic developed from aetheric techniques originally used in Ul'dahn funerary rites.
Arcanima is the mathematical manipulation of aether through arcane geometries and formulas. It's main purpose is to undertake customs checking within Limsa Lominsa (hence why the ACN Guild is a customs house), but it's ultimate form is summoning a familiar known as a Carbuncle.

The Jobs are somewhat more obscure as to how they actually generate their spells, but it seems that as they piggyback on a base class (except for AST of course), it's most likely that they just utilize their base class's source of aether (WHM from the environment, BLM from the user etc).

If I've made any mistakes, please feel free to clarify or correct me. :D

Yeah it's the first part of the answer. Thank you for those details :)
The second part is that you said: "the difference is in how each class/Job actually uses that aether". How does the differents class/job use aether ? :)

Actually, BLM also draws from the environment in addition to internal aether (with the soul crystal acting as a power regulator to prevent self-immolation).

AST apparently draws extraterrestrial aether from constellations. DRK draws its magic from the abyss / inner darkness.

Yeah I know big lines, but is there any other details ? :o

Didn't Thordian say, Aether is aether, no matter where it came from. (crystals, Niddhogs eye, the Ascian, or souls (implied)). That suggests Aether is a type of energy all things share or have, that happens to be concentrated in crystals (which may become aspected to a particular element). It may as well be like the force in starwars. Some people are more sensitive to it and can learn to manipulate or sense it if they have a naturally higher than normal amount of Aether in their being.

Monks may refer it as Chakra and train their bodies to channel and focus it in a physical manner as opposed to how Mages use it. I can only hope Monks eventually get a chi blast to help explain it.

Could it be that Garleans' inability to manipulate aether is an indicator that they are not native to the world of Hydaelyn?

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Originally Posted by Dalex

Could it be that Garleans' inability to manipulate aether is an indicator that they are not native to the world of Hydaelyn?

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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oNN3EENGl-...losion-gif.gif

That's an interesting theory there dale and it would be nice to see it the only other time they have done the whole people from another planet was 7 and ret conned in 10-2 where they were from spira.

Interesting idea, I doubt they'd be space travelers though. If anyones familier with the witcher series I could imagine something like that causing the garleans to end up in a world they aren't native to, or maybe they are allagan bio creations. The answer has something to do with that eye methinks.

That doesn't hold weight I'm afraid, seeing as here states Garlemald's origins as a Hydaelyn-native 'insignificant nation' in the northern part of Ilsabard, and only with a sudden technological revolution did they spread out into the wider world:

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Originally Posted by Final Fantasy XIV Lodestone

Until some fifty years ago, Garlemald was a remote and sparsely populated nation which held little more than a fraction of the northern continent of Ilsabard. But with the arrival of a technological golden age and the concurrent emergence of a brilliant young legatus—now the reigning emperor—in the span of a single generation Garlemald established itself as one of the most formidable forces in all of Hydaelyn.

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Native Garleans are just hyur who have a third eye, which, although it's unconfirmed, to me resembles more an implant rather than an actual natural optical organ. It rings true that a people advanced in technology (and especially magitek), would also be skilled in cybernetics. But only a certain ahriman knows for sure. ;)

Could the Garleans possibly be a Allag anti-magic corps expirment of some sort? Similair to the pariah gene in the warhammer 40k universe. I mean they Ixali were slave workers so it wouldn't be a big stretch.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

That doesn't hold weight I'm afraid, seeing as here



Native Garleans are just hyur who have a third eye, which, although it's unconfirmed, to me resembles more an implant rather than an actual natural optical organ. It rings true that a people advanced in technology (and especially magitek), would also be skilled in cybernetics. But only a certain ahriman knows for sure. ;)

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They are the largest tribe of hyur though so they could be regarded as separate similar to elves, the spoken races are very human in appearance so they do have more differences than just the eye. They also share similar genetic traits with skin and hair color but I guess that would be due to how remote they originally were. I have a feeling the eye is genetic though, guess we won't know until we see more of garlemald proper, or at least a controlled province.

It doesn't realy answer to the initial question :p

OK, let's do this.

On Magic
-Magic, probably, is the end result of aetheric manipulation. To cast a spell you need to gather, concentrate, and direct the aether to achieve the desired effect. To cast a fire spell, for instance, you just gather and direct a certain amount of fire aether from the environment / atmosphere. Aether is in all things, y'know...

Each class' method of doing so differs slightly, but that's the basics of it. To wit:
CNJ / WHM: Very druid-lite in this game, uses ambient aether for healing effects. Relies primarily on wind, water, and earth, based on their spells.
THM / BLM: Uses ambient and personal aether to produce various effects, relying primarily on fire (Astral) for high power and ice (Umbral) to slow down enemies and regain mana.
ACN / SCH / SMN: ACN uses aether to program Carbuncle familiars, with Emerald leaning towards wind and Topaz leaning towards earth. SCH uses the same type of aether as CNJ / WHM, probably, and uses a more advanced version of the Carbuncle familiars (the fairy summon has sentience, unlike a Carbuncle). SMN uses their personal aether to give shape to a pseudo-Primal from their memory; arguably, primal egis use as much of the SMN's aspected aether as is physically possible without adverse effects.
AST: Pulls in aether from the heavens. Somehow. I think.
PLD: If you think they're actively using magic, uses Light aether for mostly defensive purposes.
NIN: Uses small amounts of personal aspected aether to produce a variety of ninjutsu. Can only use ninjutsu at a limited rate to avoid problems with imbalanced internal aether.
DRK: Uses personal Dark aether to enhance attacks. Much more intense than ninjutsu, but capable of vampirically draining aether from enemies through various means.

In all cases, running down to 0 MP is probably the greatest amount of exertion that can be done without ill side effects. Fortunately, the only classes that dip down that low regularly are BLM and DRK, the former of whom does so intentionally before recovering with Umbral Ice and the latter of whom knows the risk of using too much of the power of darkness, so they cut it off before mental pollution and physical breakdown begin.

On Garleans
-Pretty sure they're not aliens. I believe it was stated somewhere that their inability to manipulate aether is because of a genetic defect, but I don't remember where from.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

OK, let's do this.

On Garleans
-Pretty sure they're not aliens. I believe it was stated somewhere that their inability to manipulate aether is because of a genetic defect, but I don't remember where from.

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Maybe it's like the Cyclops lore in Krull. They made a deal to see the future, so they gave up one eye but wound up only able to see their own deaths with the remaining eye. The Garlians may be able to see the aether and what not, but having that eye and ability renders them unable to tap into it by natural means. Hence the Magi-tech.

While yes, the nation of Garlemald is native to Hydaelyn, it does not mean the Garleans themselves were the only members of their society. It is entirely possible that the Garleans don't know the truth of their origins, and were either brought here or were a stranded race of explorers. Midgardsormr himself indicates that he "came to this star with seven eggs in tow" (or something to that effect), so dragons themselves appear to be an alien species (though obviously capable of using Aether).

Seeing as FF XIV has on many occasions reached back into the themes and settings of previous games, I would raise the memory of the Genomes from FF IX: Artificial human-like beings from the technologically advanced world of Terra, whose own lifestream/soul is incompatible with the native Gaian lifestream/soul. Not to mention, the caretaker of this race is none other than Garland, master of the Invincible airship, who seeks to destroy the Eidolons (Eikons, anyone?) and the people who them, as they threaten his goals.

Since we're on the subject of Garleans, I have to wonder if the third eye is just a result of the Allags 'shutting' down the Allag Summoners. Summoners can't use aether, they can't summon! In essence, I'm wondering if the Garleans are descended from the ancient Summoners. The Allags are known for human genetic manipulation after all.

As for the magica system, there's not much I can really add that hasn't already been mentioned in previous posts.

The following is a conversation you can hold with Raya-O-Senna following the level 60 WHM quest. (No worries, no spoilers). It details the advent of the Black and White Magic schools, though what schools of magic may have existed before this time, I cannot say; but it's fair to assume that certain techniques may have been lost and rediscovered many times over the eras.


What is White Magic?

A curious question from one who has borne witness to the tragedy of Amdapor with her own eyes. What is white magic, indeed? Very well. I shall give you my answer, that you might judge for yourself how it compares to your own.

The art now known as white magic dates back to the Fifth Astral Era. It was then that a brilliant young sorceress─for the first time in history─succeeded in channeling not merely her own life energy, but the aether that inhabits the very land itself. Her magic was that of destruction: black magic. The people of Amdapor felt this power was too great to be allowed to go unchecked, and so it was that white magic─the magic of healing and solace─was born. So it was that the forces of magic were brought into equilibrium, and civilization flourished. But this era of peace and prosperity would prove short-lived. War broke out, and the realm was thrown into chaos. The War of the Magi. To rain death and destruction on their foes, mages summoned forth greater and greater powers. The war raged on, until the aether dried, and the land itself could bear the burden no longer. So did the hubris of magi bring forth the Sixth Umbral Era...and with it a mighty flood that swept away entire civilizations, leaving naught but ruin and suffering in its wake. The survivors─what few there were─banded together. Vowing never again to repeat their mistake, white and black magic were declared forbidden arts, never to be practiced again. The elementals of the forest, knowing that men could not be trusted to keep such vows, took action as well. The Twelveswood grew, swallowing the ruins of Amdapor, and the power of white magic was sealed away deep in the forest, far from the reach of mortals. Ages passed, until five centuries ago, the elementals at long last welcomed people back into the forest. So the nation of Gridania was founded, and my people─the Padjal─came into being, to serve as mediators between elementals and those who would reside in their forest home. It is from the elementals themselves that we inherited white magic.

In any case, living beings generate aetheric energy as a natural byproduct, the excess bleeding off into the environment, and still larger chunks dispersing into the flow of the Lifestream, generating currents and forming deposits of crystals and ceruleum. The pure energy can take on different elemental aspects, almost like a "flavor", but at the basic levels it is all the same: it is just easier for aspected aether to manipulate its prospective element. That being said, I don't think that when you use a spell, that you are creating that phenomena from pure energy; instead you are using that energy to effect the phenomena from already present components (condensing water from humidity in the atmosphere, building a voltage between two points to create lightning).

Though yes, in-game play ignores the fact that there's probably not any rocks for a white mage to use on a boat out at sea. Compromises.

Though I do still get peeved when something major happens (like a major character being badly injured or killed), and I as a White Mage can't use Revive or Benediction on them when I CAN CLEARLY STILL SAVE THEM.

Ah ! That's the kind of answer i'm waiting for ! Thank you Dalex !

No more info on other mage ? Like blm ?

Black Mage was kind of answered in Dalex's post, as well. Shatotto eventually discovered how to channel her own aether, along with that of her surroundings, to power her spells. The lore on the Black Mages is tied to Mhach which, only having done BLM up to 50 so far, I can't really say much.

I've always thought the aether in XIV close to the Mist in XII: it's everywhere, you absorb it just by walking and any magic effect is just careful manipulation of it. Even the Espers in XII and the egis in XIV are kind of similar; in XII, you deplete your mist reserves (MP in XII) to summon an Esper after you defeat it, while you only use up a relatively small amount in XIV to summon your egi (lore-wise, it's your aether shaped into a form similar to said primal).

In regards to ACN:

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“Adepts of the art of arcanum derive their might from symbols of power born of geometric techniques hailing from across the southern seas. Held within occult grimoires, these symbols lend shape to the arcanist's aether, thereby allowing him to produce myriad powerful spells.
Using the selfsame symbols to unlock the latent power contained within gemstones, arcanists are also able to summon forth the familiar known as Carbuncle to carry out their bidding.”

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In other words they use aether around them and funnel that aether into their books. That book has an "algorithm" that then shapes/programs it into a carbuncle. Additionally, gemstones contain "power" which explains why carbuncles are all named after the gemstones used in their creation. Additionally, THM/BLM use gemstones in their weapons to channel aether.

When they're finished with Carbuncle that aether is dissipated back into the land

SCH and SMN operate under the same principal due to their base as an ACN, but there are differences on the top of my head:

SCH:
Unlike Carbuncles; Faeries are permanent and are bound into their respective soul crystal. Think of them as a more advanced carbuncle especially since they'll retain all the knowledge of their previous scholar to wield them

SMN:
You summon forth the egi/essence of the primal and beat it into submission.

In either case, the amount of aether capacity/reserve you have is important. You need to have at least enough just to be able to cast spells as seen with one of the THM brothers who wanted to become a THM like the rest, but lack the aether capacity to even cast a fire spell.

Due to that, it seems like there are people that simply cant become mages

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Originally Posted by myahele

“Adepts of the art of arcanum derive their might from symbols of power born of geometric techniques hailing from across the southern seas. Held within occult grimoires, these symbols lend shape to the arcanist's aether, thereby allowing him to produce myriad powerful spells.
Using the selfsame symbols to unlock the latent power contained within gemstones, arcanists are also able to summon forth the familiar known as Carbuncle to carry out their bidding.”

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So is Arcamina from Meracydia? As far as I know, it's the only continent that we know of that fits the bill.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

So is Arcamina from Meracydia? As far as I know, it's the only continent that we know of that fits the bill.

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Originally? Its probably hard to be sure. After all Summoning is an art that works on the same principles and it originate from Allag. It could still do so, but its hard to be sure since we don't know where Nym and Allag got the knowledge originally.

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

So is Arcamina from Meracydia? As far as I know, it's the only continent that we know of that fits the bill.

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Hard to say, since we know NIN, CNJ, PGL, THM, PGL and other class/ jobs are mobs in Allagan Dungeons like Fractal Continuum/ Research Facility. The fact that their called by their class names and implies that they're atleast as old as the Allagan Empire.

Since the Summoning was specifically invented by the Allagans I am more inclined to think that Aramina is what summoning eventually became due to people actively hunting and killing summoners after Allag's fall.

From what I remember Lalafells originally lived on islands within the Southern Seas and Mhachi apparently had an aliance with them against Nym

OKAY LET'S DO THIS. We've already talked about WHM/BLM, so let me talk about the stuff I know: SCH/SMN. Double posting because of the word limit.

Scholars originate from Nym and Nymian powers; their idea is one of healing and protection, and their summons can persist based on their soulstone. Because of this, their fairies are intricately linked to their soulstones, and while it's possible to summon one without a soulstone, it could take years of research on Nymian techniques; the fairies are basically something uniquely born of Nymian magic. All the Nymian magic learned in-story is mainly healing and shielding; in other words, most of its aims are around structure and protection, as well as cleansing. We see members of the Nym in the level 50-60 quest, which I don't remember off the top of my head, but most of Nymian philosophy is arcane magicks that prioritize protecting those around you, rather than damaging. Their major element is Wind. (The green glow while casting shows this.)

Summoner:
Primals must be fought to be a summoner; the idea is that when a primal dies, anyone nearby is soaked in the resultant aether. Once any prospective summoner has gained a touch of the primal's aether, they're able to summon an egi of that primal from that aether,. Once defeated, that primal is dominated by the Summoner; this allows them to summon them at will. However, the current maximum of egis is 3. To compensate, Summoners are able to enter a Trance state based upon the power of a primal. The example we see in-game is Bahamut, who touched everyone with his aether due to the Calamity. In theory, this can be done with any primal, but Bahamut was the most powerful at the time, and thus is the one that was picked. (Warring Triad Trances in the future? )

We know all of their spells originate from Allag and have been gleaned from Tomestones, so it's most likely still along the lines of ACN: arcane geometry guiding their abilities.

I didn't mean SMN or SCH arcamina, I literally meant modern Arcanist arcamina when I was asking about Meracydia. It's not crazy to think that it's from there, just like pugilism and Monk-stuff comes from the Near East.

Also, the Warring Triad are Eikons, not Primals, so we would probably never get their Trances.

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What is arcanima?
The roots of arcanima can be traced back to the esoteric calculations practiced by the people of the south sea isles.

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Not sure if these isles are on the Mercydian Continent

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Originally Posted by myahele

Not sure if these isles are on the Mercydian Continent

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Perhaps it isn't Meracydia itself then, but islands nearby, or even further south?

I wonder why the "south Isles" are not named? That's where Lalafels + Aranima originated yet there's not name for them.

But yeah, I think Mercydia is further south of these Southern Isles, at most it can even be a part of Meracydia just Vylbrand is to Eorzea?

Maybe for the same reason it took us until Heavensward to get Mhach's name, even when most of us knew there was a civilization of Black Mages pre-Belahdia, it's planned for a future update and the Lore team doesn't want to spoil it beforehand (at least, that's what I hope)