Ascillia, Minfillia and Thancred

How is this even possible. As a FF 1.0 Player I always wondered how this was possible and now in ARR and Heavensward even more.

Since Ascillia and Minfillia are the same Person for me there is one question.

How is it possible that Thancred and Ascillia meet in the 1.0 Ul'dah Opening story and many years later Ascillia is a grown woman and Thancred looks exactly the same.

Only way I see it beeing possible is for Thrancred was traveling the Echovision but as far as I know Thancred was really there and not Echoversiontraveling.

So how is that possible.

They even gave F'lhaminn new clothings and glasses to symbolise that she aged but Thancred is still the exact same model....

Is there something I'm missing?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...6-50-43-86.jpg

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Originally Posted by Scott

Is there something I'm missing?

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...6-50-43-86.jpg

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Echo-Ception is what you're missing. 1.0 was so poorly writen to where it's hard to draw the line between what was echo and what wasnt. I dont belive the echoception took place more than 3 years before 1.0 meaning Ascila could have been in her early teens while thancred and f'lahamine were in their late teens - early 20s. Thus now anouther 5 years later Minfilia is in her early 20s while Thancred and Flahamine are in their 30s. Also possible that Thancred is actually younger than Flahamine or just aged better. (Remember Flahamine did spend many years runing from assasins. Stress will kill even a young woman's looks)

But Minfillia was looking like this in present 1.0...... Well I think they messed the ageing process up.....

http://www.dannykang.net/wordpress/w...7_17.08.45.jpg

Thancred was a tall 15 year old... Maybe

There's canonically something unusual going on with Thancred's lack of ageing, Minfilia thinks about it in her story during last year's Tales from the Calamity.

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Perpetually passing by, Thancred had drifted in and out of Minfilia’s life for years. He had been seventeen when they first met—five years her senior. Or so he claimed.

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From "The Walker's Path"

I have a theory about this.

I believe that the city story quests in 1.0 had you going in and out of the echo with out you even knowing it. This theory can be strengthen by the fact that when you meet either Thancred Yoshtola and the others again in the last story quest in the original 1.0 story it seams that they don't even know you it happens again in the old 1.0 grand company story as well.

Also we didn't even know what the echo was or even that it exsisted till we go to the Waking sands in Ul Dah. So the theory that we didn't know if we were in there or just looking at the past more likely.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

I believe that the city story quests in 1.0 had you going in and out of the echo with out you even knowing it. This theory can be strengthen by the fact that when you meet either Thancred Yoshtola and the others again in the last story quest in the original 1.0 story it seams that they don't even know you it happens again in the old 1.0 grand company story as well.

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Well, they do give a clue as to when you enter an echo vision. It was rather subtle, but there was a SWOOSH sound and split-second camera blur each and every time. Their aim, I think, was for you to notice something wonky was going on, and for you to finally make the connection and reflect on the events you witnessed before hand once the echo is revealed at the end of your introduction quest line.

Supposedly, one who is witnessing an echo vision cannot effect the events of the time they are visiting, you're simply reliving the memories of others. People react to your presence while in the Echo, most likely, because you're misplaced in said memory. So, technically, no one should remember you.

However, there a~re several instances where it certainly seems like you are recognized from "before". Though, these cases were likely flubs by the team at the time. There were also cases in which the tell-tale SWOOSH was misplaced, but these were cleaned up a little better once the team we now know and love took over. Now, there's still nothing explaining how you're able to carry items back from memories of someone else's past, but the acquisition of these items were kinda locked into the story, so there wasn't much that could be done about it after the fact.

FUN FACT: Through the echo, your Path Companion had also met Thancred, Yda & Palapymo, or Y'shtola, depending on your city-state. But still, they too go unrecognized by the then Circle of Knowing member. This was observed toward the end of "Futures Perfect", the final Seventh Umbral Era Scenario quest


As for Thancred's appearance, we can probably chalk that up to "resource limitations". Canonically, he is 17 in the year 1562 of the Sixth Astral Era, the same year that all of the version one echo visions take place, and the same year Ascilia, aka Minfilia, was 12 years old (and she definitely didn't look her age either).

Apparently, former members of the Circle know magic to halt their aging process.

So that's why none of the ex-Circle members of the Scions look older than they did in 1.x, while Minfilia has... well, grown up and filled out, for lack of a better term.

To be fair, Ascillia/Minfillia isn't the only character you can find that is an overly mature 12 year old. Girls can actually start getting their growth spurts and hit puberty as early as 10, so it's not unheard of.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...d195c83824.jpg
((All characters in this picture are 12 in the anime they're from "Loveless"))

Can't really use anime as a benchmark for what age people hit puberty, and how they develop during that timeframe. (When people hit puberty, especially women, is largely dependent on their daily stress, among other factors.)

If Ascilia is ~10-12, then 1.x Minfilia would be ~15-17, which would make 2.x Minfilia ~20-22. She hit a massive growth spurt between 1.x and 2.0, while none of the other Scions aged from their 1.x appearance - because they know magic to halt their aging process (and apparently don't feel like sharing with Minfilia. Either that, or she's as magically inept as she is physically).

I think this may be being overthought quite a bit. Yes, those scenes took place in an Echo (every scene involving Thancred in Ul'dah took place in an Echo until the Rise of the Seventh Umbral Era story arc). Yes, at the time, Thancred was 17 and Ascilia was 12. Yes, Thancred is now 32. (And yes, you can tell Echos by the whoosh).

However, you can make Thancred's NPC entirely - out - of - character - creation - options, which are more or less standardized. If they visibly aged Thancred's character creation options, they'd have visibly aged every player character who used his features, too - or had to have started from scratch to give him a unique version (in that famous 1.0 to 2.0 time crunch).

Saves a lot of time if you just imagine that Thancred ages pretty slow and maintains his boyfish features - that he's the Rick Astley of Hydaelyn.

If you look at Thancred in the opening of A Realm Reborn, he's clearly older, even if it's subtle.

Did...did Moose just Rick Roll us...?

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Did...did Moose just Rick Roll us...?

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Rick rolling, an elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.

It's not just Thancred, though - you can actually make all the ex-Circle members in their 1.x - 2.x incarnations with the right options, save the tattoos. 1.x Minfilia can also be made, but 2.x Minfilia has a unique model (unique hairstyle, larger bust than is available to Midlander female PCs, unique outfit) - the others' outfits can be mostly put together with some effort. (You can't be an actual THM / BLM with Papalymo's metal gauntlets though.)

The "magically stop their aging" clause for ex-Circle members is, indeed, just a lore justification for a design limitation.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Circle_of_Knowing

◾Some believe the Archons either caused or rectified the Sixth Umbral Era 1,500 years before the game.

So, with the ability to magically halt/slow aging, they could easily be 1500+ years old. Plus, if you look at all of them, they all have blonde/silver hair. Maybe that's due to age. who knows, it's just my personal theory.

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Originally Posted by Dorander

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Circle_of_Knowing

◾Some believe the Archons either caused or rectified the Sixth Umbral Era 1,500 years before the game.

So, with the ability to magically halt/slow aging, they could easily be 1500+ years old. Plus, if you look at all of them, they all have blonde/silver hair. Maybe that's due to age. who knows, it's just my personal theory.

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The Sixth Umbral Era was caused by the Elementals. Archon is a default title given to individuals who attempt to warn of and mitigate approaching calamities. They earned the name Archon for their efforts in trying to stop the fall of Dalamud.

On top of that Y'shtola states in HW that she was born in the now abandoned city of Shalayan which wasn't around 1,500 years ago and Thancred grew up in Limsa. Plus there is Matoya, Y'shtola's teacher.

Strictly speaking you don't age a great deal in appearance between the ages of 20 and 30. Personally I suspect the reality is that they just didn't have time to revamp the Scion models beyond Minfilia's while working on ARR. After all time would have been tight. Its probably why we don't see much character development or fleshing out of a lot of those characters either. You'll note that in HW we have seen a change to that. I wouldn't be surprised if all the Scions get some background development and a facelift on their models and outfits when we see them next.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Strictly speaking you don't age a great deal in appearance between the ages of 20 and 30. Personally I suspect the reality is that they just didn't have time to revamp the Scion models beyond Minfilia's while working on ARR. After all time would have been tight. Its probably why we don't see much character development or fleshing out of a lot of those characters either. You'll note that in HW we have seen a change to that. I wouldn't be surprised if all the Scions get some background development and a facelift on their models and outfits when we see them next.

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I bet when Thancred comes back he'll have a limp. Poor guy got Memed when he literally got shot in the knee by that brass blade archer.

Thancred's quote to new recruits
"I was a Scion once, like you. Then I took an arrow to the knee."

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Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

I bet when Thancred comes back he'll have a limp. Poor guy got Memed when he literally got shot in the knee by that brass blade archer.

Thancred's quote to new recruits
"I was a Scion once, like you. Then I took an arrow to the knee."

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Techically I think it was Crystal Brave archer but I could be wrong.

Still I think it very unlikely they would put Thancred in a position where he would be put on the bench. Certainly his fighting style doesn't really lend itself to those lacking manoeuvrability.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

Can't really use anime as a benchmark for what age people hit puberty, and how they develop during that timeframe. (When people hit puberty, especially women, is largely dependent on their daily stress, among other factors.)

If Ascilia is ~10-12, then 1.x Minfilia would be ~15-17, which would make 2.x Minfilia ~20-22. She hit a massive growth spurt between 1.x and 2.0, while none of the other Scions aged from their 1.x appearance - because they know magic to halt their aging process (and apparently don't feel like sharing with Minfilia. Either that, or she's as magically inept as she is physically).

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The City-State storylines take place 10 years before the Path of the 12 arc. So Minfillia is 22 in 1.x, and 27 in 2.x.

Omg moose is sooooo right I get compared to thancred all the time and I created this character during 1.0 closed beta >_< . He stole MY looks *fumes*

10 or so years for a child growing into an adult is FAR different than 10 or so years of an adult continuing to be an adult. Most changes in adulthood aren't due to aging until later (I'm not a doctor so take that as you will) and it's mostly environmental factors. So Thancred looking the same as he did isn't odd at all compared to Minfillia, who was a child and is now an adult.

I'd imagine the actual reason Minfilia got so much bigger between 1.x and 2.0, is because they didn't have female highlander models in 1.x but they did in 2.0. Which, given that she's an ala mhigan, I would assume she was supposed to be one all along.

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Originally Posted by Icecylee

I'd imagine the actual reason Minfilia got so much bigger between 1.x and 2.0, is because they didn't have female highlander models in 1.x but they did in 2.0. Which, given that she's an ala mhigan, I would assume she was supposed to be one all along.

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I actually have a theory that Minfillia might be half-Midlander and half-Highlander. She has a larger bust than Midlander females, and her facial structure, including her neck, seems thicker to me than a Midlander female. I play a Highlander female myself, and when comparing her to Minfillia, I see body structure similarities. Does anyone else who plays a Highlander female think this might be possible?

It's certainly possible she's half high/midlander. We know her father certainly is. Hildibrand is certainly half mid/highlander if we look at his parents

Honestly, it's far more probable that she's just a midlander with a (as of 2.0) unique character model.

While the majority of hyur highlanders we see today are from Ala Mhigo, keep in mind that the city-state wasn't composed solely of that combination of race and tribe.

I think people are forgetting one of the biggest things when their trying to figure out the ages of these people and when trying to figure out how much time has gone by. There is one more key character that was in the Ul dah story in 1.0. Minfillia's foster mother just look at how she aged from 1.0 to 2.1.

Thancred is kinda special since he was controled/posses by the Ascian at some point and I don't really know how much time he was controlled so maybe that is a cause for him not aging.

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Originally Posted by Dererk

Minfillia's foster mother just look at how she aged from 1.0 to 2.1.

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To be fair, F'lhaminn was a full-grown adult in the year 1562, a little over 15 years prior to the release of patch 2.1. It's not at all a stretch to assume she was somewhere in her 40s then and is now nearing 60, justifying the change in her appearance.

Call me crazy, but I think they just put a frumpy dress and glasses on her and hoped you'd assume she was an old bat.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/b5dHxfNSvv4/maxresdefault.jpg
http://static.tumblr.com/a0de689847e...k08cw0c44w.jpg

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Call me crazy, but I think they just put a frumpy dress and glasses on her and hoped you'd assume she was an old bat.

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Well, it worked, didn't it? lol

F'lhaminn has never seemed THAT old to me, but one thing I noticed looking at her is, despite having a "normal" character model, there are definitely subtle wrinkles around her eyes, particularly at the inner corners. It's something I found interesting, because you don't really see modification to the features of other characters that have character creation-possible models. I do wonder how old she is...

ok theres her hairstyle and outfit out now so what head and face details would make you look just like her in the game and what human female model would we use of the 2 a midlander or highlander and say face number skin tone say 3to right down 7 ect and hair color eye type lip type nose type eyebrowns ect if i want to look just like minfilia:cool: please help me look like her it going to be fun.