Are Pentamelds still BiS?

I noticed that a lot of top progression teams have started switching out their pentamelds with ilvl 210 slaying accessories. This confuses me as pentamelds still give a total of 60 primary stats over the 47 on the 210 pieces. Are pentamelds still BiS or are 210 pieces the new BiS?

I'm not an authority by any means....

Seems to me teams that are running breaking content would struggle with the DPS checks. If tanks are surviving busters and mechanics are being executed then the only thing that needs to happen is damage. Pentamelds won't deliver as much as the 210 accessories in that department. That being said, as we gear up with esoterics on the left side I would wager that for those of us doing progression on the tail end; that pentamelds will still be BiS.

If your just going for pure damage or pure health the i210 stuff is better if you stack it i.e. if you're wearing 4 i210 str or vit pieces then you have more str or vit than with 4 penta-melded pieces.

Without doing any maths, I assume the pentamelded gear still gives a better or comperable balance between damage / health but if your trying to stray away from the more balanced approach, I can see i200+ pieces being your go-to

We are at the point where you should have enough HP from left side gear now. i210 Slaying give a lot more STR than pentamelded gear so it makes sense to start replacing those accessories once you don't need the VIT from accessories.

I imagine that the top raiding groups are thinking more about terms of pure dmg. Their tanks have enough vit that they don't need pentamelds. They need the greater amount of strength that the 210 stuff gives.

I mean there isn't too much math here.

Pentameld = 60 main stat (31 str) ~41 off stat
210 = 47 main stat ~72 off stat

At this point if you don't need the health (and your melee already have theirs) the 210 is already better from str alone.

As for off stats, general consensus is that they're ~1/8th - 1/6th as good as main stat, so pretty much total stat wise pentamelds are still superior, assuming you need the vit.

The obvious reason to use pentamelds, of course, is that

1. You won't fight with your melee dps for accessories.
2. You can already have full pentamelds as soon as you hit 60, if you have the money.
3. You need the vit.

So then does it matter whether I pentameld Slaying or Fending? I noticed that a lot of people typically go for the slaying, but on my server STR IV materia is much cheaper than VIT IV. If I can get the same stats, should I shoot for Fending with STR IV materia?

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Originally Posted by LordHousewife

So then does it matter whether I pentameld Slaying or Fending? I noticed that a lot of people typically go for the slaying, but on my server STR IV materia is much cheaper than VIT IV. If I can get the same stats, should I shoot for Fending with STR IV materia?

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TL;DR melding Vit materias is slightly better, but more expensive. Melding Str is vice versa.

When you meld Vit materias it usually goes 3x Vit IVs, 1x Vit III, 1x some secondary stat for a total of 28 Vit (instead of the 29 vit on Fending acc). When you meld Str materias it goes 4x Str IVs, 1x Str III and no room for a secondary stat materia. That secondary stat materia is more valuable to me than 1 VIT. So that's an advantage, and you could even upgrade that Vit III to IV to fully max it.

Also, the secondary stats on the base items matter. Like if it's Fending and has Parry I'm immediately skipping it for Slaying instead. Accuracy might push you one way or another too, depending if you need or don't need that.

Think I ended up with Fending ear and Slaying everything else. Yours may vary.

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Originally Posted by LordHousewife

So then does it matter whether I pentameld Slaying or Fending? I noticed that a lot of people typically go for the slaying, but on my server STR IV materia is much cheaper than VIT IV. If I can get the same stats, should I shoot for Fending with STR IV materia?

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There really isn't enough of a difference for it to matter. You make out slightly better if you go with Slaying, but Fending are cheaper to meld. The biggest thing is to make sure that whatever you're melding doesn't have parry on it. If you're on a budget and STR materia is cheaper on your server you can go Slaying neck, Fending ear/wrist/rings.

I'm not completely sure but I'm assuming that the reason most go for Str instead of Fending is because some of the Fending has parry on them which is pretty much an undesirable stat. However if the secondary stats is a none issue then going with Fending would be cheaper to meld.

Choker = Slaying > Fending
Earrings = Interchangeable
Wrist = Interchangeable / Fending has Accuracy, Slaying doesn't
Rings = Interchangeable

The important thing about crafted accessories is to get the STR + VIT, so if you can afford to meld the Fending Choker but not the Slaying one then get the Fending. I personally recommend just getting 3 accessories, ideally Slaying Choker + Fending Earrings/Fending Bracelet + Slaying/Fending Ring as with i190+ that will give you enough health for A1S-A3S, and with more gear it'll give you enough for A4S. If you can afford all 5, get all 5, but if you can only afford 3 then you'll be solid too. Even 2 pentamelds is a solid number if you have some i200 or i210 gear on your left side.

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Originally Posted by Keagian

I'm not completely sure but I'm assuming that the reason most go for Str instead of Fending is because some of the Fending has parry on them which is pretty much an undesirable stat. However if the secondary stats is a none issue then going with Fending would be cheaper to meld.

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Furthermore, you have to meld 31 str vs meld 28 vit.

Also the idea is to max damage while maintaining some hp, not max hp while maintaining some damage, so you want to have max str and then get "some" vit.

Well, actually it's partially due to the fact that Vitality Grade IV materia give +8 Vitality whereas Strength Grade IVs only give +7 Strength. The cap of str/vit on ALL accessories, whether fending or slaying, is 31 Str and 29 Vit.

To meld 31 Str on a fending you MUST do 4 Grade IVs and a Grade III. Five melds, no other way to do it.

To meld 29 Vit on a Slaying you can do it in either 4 Grade IVs with a spare slot, or 3 Grade IVs with a Grade III and a spare slot (only hits 28 vit but is cheaper).

Fundamentally the only difference between slaying and fending other than cost is the open fifth meld slot in the Slayings. However, secondary stats have very minimal impact and depending on weightings you might find that the base stats on some Fendings are -better-.

If Grade IV strength materia gave +8 Strength then you'd probably see most people going primarily Fending accs.

Case in point : Fending Ears and Wrists are Acc+Crit, which imo is the strongest combo of two secondary stats on tank gear. Slaying versions have no acc, so I'd say Fending is the better option in these slots over Slaying with an Acc Materia. Fending Rings and Slaying Rings are identical secondary stats (Sks+Crit) so Slaying are objectively better here. Slaying Neck is also much better than the Fending neck as the fending neck wastes points on Parry.

Slaying Neck, Fending Wrists, Fending Ears and two Slaying Rings, max melded with either 31 Str or 29 Vit, with Grade IV Heavens Eye materias in the 3 slaying acc's empty slot. This, to me at least, is the optimal setup.

They still are BIS yeah, but with the gear you get and the confort you get on new raid you can start swapping one pentameld for an i210 slaying accessories.

I myself have 5 pentamelds, and depending on the content i use earring/bracelet i210 slaying since i've enough hp. Like in A3 savage i use 4 crafted slaying and 1 i210 slaying, for A1 and A2 i use 3 crafted and 2 slaying i210.
The overall HP threshold for alexander seems to be arround 18k hp (for drk and paladin and in deliverance for warrior).

There's also one thing to consider regarding the hitpoint thresholds.

Everyone is focused on the idea that once you have "enough" hitpoints to survive a tankbuster, you should go all out on Slaying. People say use Pentamelds initially and gradually fade them out for Slaying as you get more and more gear Left side.

However, I counter by saying that whilst DPS is very very important, your DPS will still be increasing as you upgrade your Left Side. Once an encounter has been beaten you also have "enough" dps as a tank. If Pentamelds are the best all-round option then I don't necessarily see the fascination with swapping them out for Slaying all the time if you're also increasing "healer safety net".

I know conventional wisdom this meta is that DPS>all, but once an encounter is beaten I'd personally prefer to keep my pentameld setup and increase both my DPS and my survivability equally rather than continually sacrifice large amounts of health for small dps increases. At that point unless you're going for world records of speed kills the most important thing is killing an encounter consistantly without silly wipes, and I still feel an all-round set of 5 pentamelds is better for this.

By all means swap out Pentas for Slaying if you're still working on an encounter where you're failing due to raidwide DPS checks, but the sheer amount of health you potentially lose when going glass cannon barely feels worth it once you know your raid is at a comfortable DPS level for an encounter.