Are Gauss Barrel and Wanderer's Minuet supposed to be up full time? I've been using them like that, but I had a Vault run where my partner machinist didn't have Gauss Barrel on at all. I thought about reminding him about it, but I also wondered if he knew what he was doing. For what it's worth, we cleared just fine.
Bard and Machinist question
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08-25-2015, 01:48 AMNinsterBard and Machinist question
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08-25-2015, 01:55 AMRinchanNau
Sometimes it is better to turn off WM/GB to handle certain mechanics and large movements. It can also be beneficial to turn them off on adds that die quickly to prevent canceled casts. It's not optimal to have them always on and also not optimal to have them always off.
Badically, should be on 90 - 95% of the time. -
08-25-2015, 02:23 AMFaizeD
It should be up most of the time, that MCH did not know what they were doing. The general rule: any movement that is longer than a single GCD = switch it off.
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08-25-2015, 02:32 AMTorunya
After having stalked the main Machinist thread here for quite some time, I do believe the general consensus is that if you don't have any major weaponskills off CD (Ricochet, GR, Reload etc) then it's better to just toggle Gauss Barrel off for that short time until your important CD's are available again. At least some smart people who are good at math said so, I don't have the slightest idea.
I just keep GB on all the time. >_>; -
08-25-2015, 02:35 AMRiceisNice
Toggling Gauss Barrel off when you have no oGCDs active to squeeze in extra auto attacks leads to a projected DPS gain of 8~20. I personally have never seen this increase on my end; MCH dps is still extremely varied with procs, crits and wildfire for me to personally attest that it's an actual dps gain if there is any.
For bard though, WM should be up at all times when applicable. There's no reason to stance dance if you're given the chance to stand still because the DoTs simply don't last enough enough for you to be able to squeeze in free auto attacks, and the nature of BL reset adds more to the benefit of having WM up at all times.
Pre-60 though, it's a bit different. At vault, MCH would not have ricochet which does add a little bit more DPS to GB. If he was not trying to fire blanks off cooldown or using head graze off cooldown, keeping GB off would've been more beneficial (though still not maximizing output) -
08-25-2015, 03:26 AMAskaRay
For MCH I keep GB up pretty much constantly. The procs let me move more. With my bard, sometimes my lag gets particularly bad so taking WM off actually helps me a bit (I don't suggest this if you have minimal/no lag though).
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08-25-2015, 04:58 AMFoxyAreku
There's a lot of lazy bards and MCHs who don't keep their respective buff up in dungeons. I can guarantee you though that you were doing way more damage than that other machinist if you were even halfway doing your proper rotation.
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08-25-2015, 05:32 AMSlyRoyaleI disagree with this. If there's no need for you to move around for more than 1 GCD, stance dancing is still a DPS increase. DoT timings aren't an issue if you time your stance dancing right (I usually do mine after Iron Jaws reapplication, ideally). While Bloodletter's recast may reset frequently, it is still dependent on RNG. A guaranteed 150 + 100 + 150 (if Bloodletter is available) potency attacks every 15s is about 10 more combined potency over a WM-buffed Heavy Shot + Bloodletter (400 potency vs. 390). If not, a Heavy Shot + auto attack is still 250 potency over a WM-buffed Heavy Shot. It's a slight DPS increase, but an increase regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceisNice
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08-25-2015, 05:51 AMKatchooExcept then you can't use Empyreal Arrow. And EA is a 15 second recast and WM is ... a 15 second recast.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlyRoyale
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08-25-2015, 05:54 AMSlyRoyaleYou can use Empyreal Arrow. Once you get your auto attack in, you can turn Minuet back on and have access to Empyreal Arrow again. Depending on when you use Empyreal Arrow, it may still be on cooldown after turning Minuet back on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katchoo
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08-25-2015, 05:57 AMKatchoo
Edit: NM i don't care that much XD
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08-25-2015, 06:06 AMSlyRoyaleIt depends on when you use your actions. WM has a 15s recast while EA's recast can be shortened with skill speed, but they are roughly similar. They do not, however, share a recast timer like Bloodletter and Rain of Death do (in fact, the tooltip for EA explicitly states that "This weaponskill does not share a recast timer with any other actions.").Quote:
Originally Posted by Katchoo
For example: if you're doing your opener and use a Barraged EA right after Venomous Bite then clip Windbite at around 6s before your buffs start falling off with Iron Jaws, you can stance dance after reapplying your DoTs, sneak in that auto attack, then turn Minuet back on and by that time Empyreal Arrow will be coming off cooldown very soon. -
08-25-2015, 06:10 AMKatchoo
Seems like a lot of work for 10 potency.
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08-25-2015, 07:17 AMSlyRoyaleIt may feel that way, but it's not that much work. You're still getting a higher potency increase if Bloodletter is on cooldown anyway, which is 250 potency vs. 195 in that scenario, which happens more often than not. With Bloodletter, it just edges out if not about the same due to the nerf to determination. Overall, stance dancing is worth it most of the time. It's not worth it if you have to move for an extended period of time, if there's no need for movement you are free to stance dance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katchoo
If you don't care that much, then why did you even bother asking in the first place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Katchoo
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08-27-2015, 08:36 AMKatchooIt's a little thing i like to call "Changing your mind" :PQuote:
Originally Posted by SlyRoyale
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08-27-2015, 11:00 AMKazzoey
My dps goes down with Gauss. GB seems to be a mobbing skill. From what I can tell, if you are going 1v1 dont use GB. If you are gonna spam Grenado or Spread Shot use GB.
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08-30-2015, 03:44 PMAeliott
So I'm having a whale of a time leveling MCH, finally think I've got things down, and then I come across this stance dancing talk ._.
That's...interesting if autos really make up for the 30% weaponskill boost. Sounds like a gigantic pain in the ass though...have the occasional tunnel vision problem as it is. -
08-30-2015, 05:34 PMEphierThen you are not playing the class properly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazzoey
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09-01-2015, 10:45 PMrappaQuote:
Originally Posted by SlyRoyale
Theorycraft is amazing but not worth it in a real fight. With enough crit, you get BL procs each 3 secs or each 6 secs. Using BL outside WM is a 150 potency vs 150 + WM bonus. SS procs with and w/o WM. Our weapons have 3.04 and WM window has 12 secs each 2 EA. You get 4 autoattacks. Due stance dance, you lose one oGCD to activate WM and usually you use GCD(SS - HS - IJ) + Empy, sometimes you would delayed EA.
The only encounter where i have to move without time to cast is a3savage and i get polarity. A4savage let's you cast and move unless you get quarantine and fly :D. -
09-02-2015, 02:26 PMVitalSuitObviously you're not playing correctly...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazzoey
There is literally no way GB is lowering your dps when it gives a 30% damage boost and gives you 2 oGCDs you wouldn't have access to with it off. -
09-02-2015, 06:04 PMNosiahkPlease don't give out advices or suggestion if you don't know how the class/job works. It's best if you asked a question then giving an answer. I'm a main MCH and having GB on is a dps increase.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazzoey