The Profession Gear Gap

In leveling my classes, I was able to keep up with my gear and craft items well. But this all changed when I got to 50 on BSM and ARM. Even with HQ mats, I can't manage more than a 25% HQ chance on anything, and the big reason for this is gear.

For all DoW and DoM classes, not only do quests give you gear, but you can spend the Poetics you've gotten for enough gear to fend for yourself in HW.

This is not the case for DotH and DotL classes. When you hit 50, you have nothing but the gear you've been leveling with - 40-50 gear, plus one blue and one green 50 item from the quest.

Trying to craft HW items with that gear is rather hard. Even at 51, if you don't have HW gear, you're going to struggle, and the only way to get HW gear for DotH/DotL classes is through the MB, from friends, or by making it yourself.

What I'd like to see would be some easing on this gap, by making the level 50 crafting/gathering sets easier to acquire, or by putting NQ gear on a vendor.

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

In leveling my classes, I was able to keep up with my gear and craft items well. But this all changed when I got to 50 on BSM and ARM. Even with HQ mats, I can't manage more than a 25% HQ chance on anything, and the big reason for this is gear.

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While your gear may be lacking, it sounds to me like your skills are lacking even more. Got Hasty Touch? Tricks of the Trade? Steady Hand 2? Innovation, Comfort Zone, BYREGOT'S BLESSING?

You want my thoughts? Quit trying to be a specialized crafter for a moment. To be an effective specialized crafter, specializing in Armorer and/or Blacksmith, you need the skills of an Omni-crafter. And, to dramatically reduce costs, you need the skills of an Omni-gatherer too.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

While your gear may be lacking, it sounds to me like your skills are lacking even more. <snipping elitism>

You want my thoughts? Quit trying to be a specialized crafter for a moment. To be an effective specialized crafter, specializing in Armorer and/or Blacksmith, you need the skills of an Omni-crafter. And, to dramatically reduce costs, you need the skills of an Omni-gatherer too.

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So...you're telling me that the crafting classes cannot stand alone and aren't BUILT to stand alone, and that in order to effectively use them I NEED to grind out all of the other DotH classes? I refute your claim, sir.

I was doing just fine making HQ items up until 50, but the first HW tier is too highly-tuned to allow a smooth transition while leveling. It assumes I'm going to spend time at 50 to go 2.0-2.55 like I did my job, and I don't have the time for that (call me casual if you must).

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

So...you're telling me that the crafting classes cannot stand alone and aren't BUILT to stand alone, and that in order to effectively use them I NEED to grind out all of the other DotH classes? I refute your claim, sir.

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Can refute it all you want but eventually you will want most cross-class craft abilities from pretty much every DoH

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

So...you're telling me that the crafting classes cannot stand alone and aren't BUILT to stand alone, and that in order to effectively use them I NEED to grind out all of the other DotH classes? I refute your claim, sir.

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If they were built to stand alone they wouldn't have used the cross class system and had every crafting class have access to all the crafting skills when leveled.
They could have fixed this with specialists as well by allowing you access to all the skills when the soul of the crafter was equipped but they didn't.
You can not level all the classes but you will end up spending more gil in the long run, have less access to mats and have a harder time gearing up, which by the sounds of it you don't even have a full HQ ARR BSM/ARM set or accessories which is trival to make if you had the classes leveled and is on par with a NQ level 51 set more or less.

In terms of gear progression the level 51 set doesn't even make that huge a difference the bigger upgrade comes when you hit 53 and have access to the level 52 main hand and the level 53 off hand.

Main hand & Off-hand
http://xivdb.com/?compare/items/11875-2354-2365-11919

ARR Set and Level 51 Set
http://xivdb.com/?compare/items/1195...973-3928-11978

Your main issue Jpec, outside of not having omnicraft status, is the level difference working against you. If you want to continue as you have, and you certainly can, you're gonna have to level yourself up first. You could try completing your challenge logs and auto synthing to get to/above the recipe level and you'll find them much easier.

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Originally Posted by PotatoWafflez

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The problem here is that when most players hit 50, they're still wearing level 30-40 stuff in many slots (namely because who can really afford to spend 60k on a ring they're going to replace in 5 levels). Even if you keep up with buying crafting gear off vendors, the highest pieces you'll be able to get outside of the blue and green from the class quest are only around level 46-47. By that point, anyone who's gotten their professions this high will have spent all of their gil to buy the mats - or at least those that you can't pick off a vendor or easily gather yourself, and so they can't afford to purchase the level 50 pieces from MB, and certainly can't afford the level 51 pieces from HW (at least on my server, prices are still exorbitant for 50 and 51 gear--less-so for 53). I get not wanting to make crafters replace their hard-earned crafting sets with vendor whites, but the lack of gear catch-up here is extremely frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Laurell

Your main issue Jpec, outside of not having omnicraft status, is the level difference working against you. If you want to continue as you have, and you certainly can, you're gonna have to level yourself up first. You could try completing your challenge logs and auto synthing to get to/above the recipe level and you'll find them much easier.

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Even at 51, while still wearing the gear I'd leveled to 50 in as a Miner, I still couldn't get more than 30% chance at Mythrite Sand until I'd sold enough of the stuff to be able to spend 750k on the 51 gear. I'm willing to bet the same will hold true for ARM, BSM, and any other DotH classes I'm masochistic enough to level.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

The problem here is that when most players hit 50, they're still wearing level 30-40 stuff in many slots (namely because who can really afford to spend 60k on a ring they're going to replace in 5 levels). Even if you keep up with buying crafting gear off vendors, the highest pieces you'll be able to get outside of the blue and green from the class quest are only around level 46-47. By that point, anyone who's gotten their professions this high will have spent all of their gil to buy the mats - or at least those that you can't pick off a vendor or easily gather yourself, and so they can't afford to purchase the level 50 pieces from MB, and certainly can't afford the level 51 pieces from HW (at least on my server, prices are still exorbitant for 50 and 51 gear--less-so for 53). I get not wanting to make crafters replace their hard-earned crafting sets with vendor whites, but the lack of gear catch-up here is extremely frustrating.

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You can't afford these ARR mats to get a level 50 HQ set that any other crafter could HQ for you with minimal effort and would likely do it for free if you provided mats?

http://ffxivcrafting.com/list/saved/...:4254,1:4152,1

Also a list for a HS starter set encase you decide to get someone else to craft you a starter set for 51+

http://ffxivcrafting.com/list/saved/...2017,1:11970,1

The mats required for the ARR sets are cheap and plentiful you do not need the old BiS accessories, but if you don't want to deal with the hassle of other people you can always take the time to get your BSM or ARM first master book for 5 HQ Darksteel ingots and do your token hand-ins for your artisan set in Mor Doh for 35 HQ Darksteel Hooks or 35 HQ Darksteel Wire.

http://xivdb.com/?compare/items/1005...60-11965-11973

http://xivdb.com/?compare/items/7524-2354

And if you don't want to pay for accessories level up CRP for HS and GSM for ARR, once you get to 58 you can just get your blue scrip gear and you'll be sorted till you get your red scrip set but you'll have even more trouble there by refusing to expand into other crafts and gatherers like others have said by not levelling them you are making it harder and more costly for yourself when crafting and gathering are the easiest things to level in the game and give you benefits such as more mats and skills and you can make your own gear.

You need to buy or have someone make you the crafted gear for your Craft. I am still using my over-melded LWK gear and the Artisan set for all my others and am doing just fine. I am 3 star on all crafts though so that helps but it just sounds to me like you have not put in enough effort to do higher content yet. Have you done your over melds???

You don't have to HQ your leve turn ins.

It should be about 18-19 NQ turn ins to get to 52.

As others said, you can also quick synth or manual craft recipes with the free +xp manuals you get just for going into ishagard. +900k exp is one level worth of bonus exp.

If you level up via the Ixal tribe quests in North Shroud, you can get an i70 hands piece usable by all classes there which is suitable for use at lv50. I think NPC vendor at Ishgard at least has main hand tools to sell you. On second thought, if you keep leveling past 50 and avoid difficult receipes for now, the class quests will reward you with appropriate gear.

If you can manage to HQ the iLevel 55 green sets in core classes like Weaver, you will find it takes a lot of the weight off. HQ Weaver's Swallowtail, Gibbus and so on set is hands over fist better than Patrician. You might want to make a set for Alchemy too and have militia off hands. This will give you strong classes for making 53 crafting (holy rainbow)

Grand company turn ins and old school grind to get them all to 53 from 50. Locking leve experience at 3000 was a clear sign they were going to be spiteful with anyone who didn't play crafting on rails.

Add on - If you have mats to make the level 51 NQ set, do it. The ilevel and stat difference from even HQ Artisan to NQ 51 is huge.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

So...you're telling me that the crafting classes cannot stand alone and aren't BUILT to stand alone, and that in order to effectively use them I NEED to grind out all of the other DotH classes? I refute your claim, sir.

I was doing just fine making HQ items up until 50, but the first HW tier is too highly-tuned to allow a smooth transition while leveling. It assumes I'm going to spend time at 50 to go 2.0-2.55 like I did my job, and I don't have the time for that (call me casual if you must).

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How much of your materials, in the 40-50 range, had to be HQ for you to have a good chance at HQ'ing the result? Cross class skills, and keeping your gear up to date (but without using Materia on it) would have let you HQ every 70/80 Durability recipe from the mid 20's on up through 50 1 star, using all NQ materials.

If you are fighting the massive underlevel penalty, you do not need to make the i55 class-specific gear. You only really need HQ Patrician's. Make Darksteel Nuggets! Use those to level to 51.

Then either choose to take the other classes on up, or continue struggling making HQ results out of HQ materials, with no realistic shot at HQ results from NQ materials. Unless you want to buy the refined materials off of the Marketboard, you are going to want to have the rest of the classes leveled anyway. How many BSM recipes use GSM, ALC, CRP, or LTW materials? How many ARM recipes use GSM, ALC, CRP, or LTW materials? Its not uncommon for recipes to use refined materials from two or three other classes. It was somewhat annoying in ARR, its ubiquitous in HW.

But yes, you are correct : the classes are not built to stand alone. That's the entire reason SE gave us the Specialization system with HW, despite the utter uselessness and ineffectiveness of that system. You can try; but you are doomed to fail. I wish you good luck making 1 star or 2 star level 60 stuff without taking any other crafting or gathering classes up. You'll need it just to NQ.

With Heavensward, SE realized that the cross-class abilities were pretty much forcing players to level every class just to be successful in one, and that this requirement was discouraging new players from getting into crafting. They made it one of their goals in Heavensward to try to move away from this requirement, by adding abilities common to all classes that could substitute for the must-have abilities possessed by other classes (in particular, Byregot's Blessing).

It is the dominating opinion on these forums that SE has FAILED in this goal, that not only are the new abilities less powerful than the abilities they're meant to replace (which would be acceptable), but they are flat out inadequate. Most believe that obtaining these level 50 cross-class abilities is still a requirement, not a luxury, which is what SE was trying to overcome.

I don't know if it's true or not, and don't have a lot of incentive to experiment myself since I'm sitting comfortably with all my cross-class abilities already unlocked. Perhaps you'll be able to find out yourself.

That said, folks are giving good advice in this thread; if you're having trouble HQing stuff (particularly 40- and 35-durability items, which have always been tricky), make sure your gear is up to snuff - and yes, you'll need to buy at least some pieces from the Marketboards. If your gear is up to snuff, meld it with materia. If you don't have Byregot's Blessing, see what you can do with Byregot's Brow - like Blessing, it is meant to be a powerful finishing quality move, and all classes learn it at level 51. Blessing is both more powerful and easier to use than Brow, but Brow is better than nothing.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

So...you're telling me that the crafting classes cannot stand alone and aren't BUILT to stand alone, and that in order to effectively use them I NEED to grind out all of the other DotH classes? I refute your claim, sir.
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That is exactly what he is saying. You need your cross class skills for crafting just like you need them for combat classes.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

If you don't have Byregot's Blessing, see what you can do with Byregot's Brow - like Blessing, it is meant to be a powerful finishing quality move, and all classes learn it at level 51. Blessing is both more powerful and easier to use than Brow, but Brow is better than nothing.

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Actually .. the relative power of the two depends upon how many IQ stacks you have built up.

If you have IQ displayed anything from 1 through 5, then Brow is actually better. If IQ is displaying a 6, then they are both equal. If IQ is displaying a 7 or higher, then Blessing is better. This, of course, assumes that you get the Good or Excellent and have the choice of the two. Because Brow can only be used on a Good or Excellent, it is much harder to use, and that restriction alone removes it from consideration as a substitute for Blessing at least 95% of the time.

I was in the same situation and you and made pretty much the exact same post. The difficulty spike in gathering and craft from 50 ARR to 50 HW is enormous.

What i did was just find the material item (for my weaver, the cloth) and just churn out that. I had previously made pretty much the entire weaver set though.

I don't have many cross class skills, and weaver sits at 60 with arm at 43 for my 2nd highest.

For botany I leveled using the unspoiled nodes and the cedar logs for a long time until I could get the first set of upgrades in HW, and then worked on just grinding and doing the regions timer every time the collectible popped.

I didn't do any leves, it was a pure grind.