Wolves den 3. Something best classes.

As we all know not all classes are created equal. Heavensward brought around some big changes to pvp. I was just wondering how you think classes are going to stack up. As a longtime ninja I'm thinking of switching pvp classes. Drg seems like the better choice IMO for den. Fetterward, b4b, more range attacks and better burst. What are your thoughts?
Also what's your ideal theory team? War/drg/smn/whm

summoner has always been incredibly weak in wolves den since the nerfs aimed at it over a year ago, war bard dragoon was always the most powerful burst comp and tanky black mages allowed for control and choke comps

white mages have generally always been the most powerful healers vs burst but the least consistent, astrologian in lvl 50 is incredibly powerful due to its shield spam but the loss of e4e was pretty large (retrogredation remains to be one of the most powerful healer pvp skills in my eyes, an aoe wither and an aoe esuna in a single skill is pretty crazy)

Machinists play like a more utility version of bard which will not be used to its full extent in solo queue mode, in team matches though between the eyes on a bind+fullswing is incredibly powerful, along with blanks knockback that bard doesnt have

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

summoner has always been incredibly weak in wolves den since the nerfs aimed at it over a year ago

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Incredibly weak ? What ?

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Originally Posted by QCrimson

Incredibly weak ? What ?

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Not nearly as much burst as a bard/dragoon combo, not nearly as tanky as a black mage, only 1 form of CC, one of the pvp skills is nearly useless in wolves den, if you die and are revived you have to waste swiftcast on getting your summon back up

its not to say they arnt potent, but so many things can go wrong with a summoner you are trading far more utility, burst and tank than you gain with DoTs

pre-2.15 patch summoners were extremely powerful due to the fact that you would field 2 of them at once and they were the only dps that could revive people if needed

Summoners were still really powerful in the den even after the nerfs, I don't know what you're talking about. The pressure they could put on a team was huge.

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Originally Posted by QCrimson

Summoners were still really powerful in the den even after the nerfs, I don't know what you're talking about. The pressure they could put on a team was huge.

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They were powerful but you just burst them down instantly from a single rotation and then that was it, if they got revived they had to spend far too long getting back up to strength and you can just put them down again

It will be interesting to see how PLD vs. WAR plays out in level 60 den. They basically made warrior even more bursty with fell cleave and paladin even more supportive with clemency. I still need to level up a DRK to see where they fall on the spectrum, right now one of their biggest advantages in pvp is in seize spamming that aoe move around points, but obviously for den that won't be very useful. I am assuming they will be more on the burst end of the spectrum than support.

Pld, ast, nin , bard or mch

-pld for support
-> clemency , cover etc
Great for shielding healer
*Cover -> hollowed ground

-ast best pvp healer
-> noct aspected benefic
24/7 insta heal & shields
-> lightspeed
Great for spamming/ burst healing
-> retrodegradation + Cel opp.
Op.

-nin for surprise burst and bind+ lb

-bard or mch for support and range dmg.

Stack vit as an ast and smns r trash. Ur LB cant do much either lolllll
So yes the majority of smns r trash in WD.

SMN trash in WD? Lol.

I don't know C'eve, I agree with everything else you post, but SMN being weak in WD is far from the truth. Yes, them dying is a major setback for them, but their only other biggest counter is MNK.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

SMN trash in WD? Lol.

I don't know C'eve, I agree with everything else you post, but SMN being weak in WD is far from the truth. Yes, them dying is a major setback for them, but their only other biggest counter is MNK.

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I never said they were trash, i said far too much can go wrong with them and they offer little to the table outside of that pressure (aside from the new burst which obviously needs to be tested) and unlike other ranged dps, they have very little tank or peel

compared to most of the main comps, summoner is a really weak link in my opinion

I said majority lol, the fact that most smns have never smn in WD and think they r all that/ OP in FL is just lol gl.
The moment a smn steps into the arena any decent WD pvper knows that they r gonna have to harass the healer while breaking the enemy smn's LoS.
I healed WD a lot before and i rather take blms over smns any day as their sleep nuke is still 100x more valuable than a smn's dots.
Ofc there are good pvp smns but like i said the MAJORITY r terribad / trash and would die to an average melee dps harassing them. Once a smn dies they gotta use swiftcast or ur pretty much gonna get ccd / interrupted.

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Originally Posted by CeveArthu

I never said they were trash, i said far too much can go wrong with them and they offer little to the table outside of that pressure (aside from the new burst which obviously needs to be tested) and unlike other ranged dps, they have very little tank or peel

compared to most of the main comps, summoner is a really weak link in my opinion

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They already had very good burst w/o Deathflare/Painflare, and as far as peeling Tri-Bind is an amazing peeling option, much better than (ex: ) Shadowbind.

The SMN being trash part was refering to the guy's comment above my previous post.

Alas, we have two different opinions on the matter, so no point in dwelling upon it any further.

Should be interesting how it plays out, smn is going to be public enemy #1 unless your rolling with a very good healer they won't be up up long enough to matter.

And we all remember the time when everyone would zerg the poor blm.
Technically tho all of this wont matter as ur success rate heavily relies on how good ur healer.

Bad party with good healer will 8/10 times trump a good party with bad healer.

It also depends on your comb synergy. Ast can be really good with blm because absorb do not interrupt casts. With SMN pld and whm can be the best choice because whm have sleep and paladin can cover weak summoner with their defensive skills. SCH can be the best with zerg cleave combo where you need spam 6x lustrate and try kill your opponent fast as possible. etc

Blackmage over summoner? I would never lol

I only hope den offers a wide variety of viable comps, and isn't plagued with simply one comp that outshines the rest. It's a serious problem in many other similar games, but hopefully Square keeps a watchful eye over it and makes tweaks where necessary.

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Originally Posted by nickx

I only hope den offers a wide variety of viable comps,

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I'm thinking the same thing. Although player skill will make every class viable there's going to be classes that standout. I'm going to try mch it has a ton of cc'd and good burst.

SMN in WD are still very good, the worst part of their nerf was the removal of thee Heavy effect on disease (and the healing nerf from 50% to 20%, but I hated it more as SCH than as SMN) in my opinion.
The only problem with them is if your party break the only CC that thay have but there are 2 different scenarios:

1. Burst opposite healer.
In this scenario a lv50 smn isn't very good,

2. Healers are good runners :D
If the match last too long SMNs rule hard, cause their DoT will starto to kill the entire party and most of 1 time I putted dots on the non healer and then used Bane when he was close to refresh them and avoid to encouter in the damned LoS loss.

But at lv 60 as healer I would really fear enemies like WAR + SMN + NIN

If the WAR stun me I fear I'll die in less than 3 sec :/
And the NIN has 3 sec Silence + 1sec silence again

Anyway Astrologian has the best self-survivalism but I feel it very lacky on healing a party, I feel like that if I encouter one, I'll kill first his ranged -> melee -> astro

There was a meta lol till se changed WD then there was a mix of comps after the double smn nerf.
A blm tht can sleep is 1000000x more useful than a smn.
It baits out purify lol unlike smn dots where u can just let it tick out or be even out with regen etc lol.
There will never be a meta for long as SE will always nerf it/ adjust their skillset like they have in the past.

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Originally Posted by nickx

I only hope den offers a wide variety of viable comps, and isn't plagued with simply one comp that outshines the rest. It's a serious problem in many other similar games, but hopefully Square keeps a watchful eye over it and makes tweaks where necessary.

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Yes, and I still think that just 1 map, even not so hard to design, was a huge lack for the pvp eviroment, if there was atleast 3 random scenarios, maybe some classes would suite better for some places so hardly we will see always the same party composition amog our enemies.

And I aslo still think that they have to stop nerfing PvE abilities for PvP, they should do it for FLs and WD separately, those duties has a totally different mechanics!
It would just pull some imbalance on one of them.