PLD Requires more Skills

Do not get me wrong, i am very grateful SE added GB and RA but besides that, there is nothing much to do. Cds here, sheltron there and done. War and Drk are very fun classes because they have a VAST amount of CDs to press. While PLD is short,simple and sweet, it also becomes boring after doing the same skills all over again. My idea? To add some sort of Fun thing for PLD. Drk has watching MP, War has maximize DPS and both have lots of CDs (again). Overall, PLD is nice but currently the most boring of the three.

(Maybe PLD to have stacks of light, increasing his SS and dps for a short time.) Adding changes that would make PLD a 'WOW' class like War and Drk. There are multiple forums talking about this and that is because it is true. Many people who are PLDs also have bery good points, and many of our skills just sit there doing nothing. With the combine ideas of players and SE's changes, PLD can join War and Drk in the fun zone.

I think I spend my entire day on this specific subject and was about to open up a thread about it.

sadly paladins are Boring, I know that statement is personal and up to anyone whether it's true or not is up to every individual, but after playing with the 3 tanks having a lvl 60 PLD,DRK and almost done WAR PLD is the least enjoyable of the 3.

WAR well...war is just perfect at this moment being one of the most and the current BEST tank of the 3 with all it's utility, staking mechanics and Stance dance is one of the most active and fun of the 3 not talking about the amount of DPS/FUN it does.

DRK has an amazing MP manipulation and management to handle and improve your tanking/defense and dps and a very sexy way and on top of that has a lot of oGCD makes the class very enjoyable AND AOE GALORE

PLD well... now they have 1,2,3...1,2,4 awesome

I feel that pld has no love in this game not only has the most simplistic and boring abilities but also lacks a lot of usefulness since other tanks do what PLD does an better and they deal a more larger amount of damage. PLD kit is lacks synergy, lacks interest in any way you can approach it not to talk that most of PLD abilities are useless and some are situational to some extremes that you wonder why do you have it on the hotbar.

I'll repost something interest that one of our friend said on another threat : @Drakkaelus

The main thing that bothers me about the Paladin is how much dead weight is loaded onto it's skills.

Tempered Will? Useless
Cover? Useless
Pacification? Useless in any situation where it'd actually be useful.
Blind? Useless against anything that matters
Shield Bash? Rarely worth the TP
Clemency? Not useless, but hard to get any real use out of. I might be alone in this but if they're going to stick with a 3 second cast time, I'd really prefer it if this spell was a HoT. At least then it could support what your healers are doing, instead of it being an either/or situation that you usually lose.

No, I don't care if that one spell had that one use in that one phase of that one boss in that one dungeon. PLDs have entirely too much crap that just sits unused 99% of the time and too much other crap that ceases to function as soon as magic starts flying. It's not a surprise to see so many PLDs focusing more and more on DPS when a lot of their supposed "utility" doesn't even function against anything but trash mobs (if that).

Which has all the true in the world, so not only is a boring class over all but also half of it's abilities are "situational" like we already discuss in another threat.
and the list increase when you go to a boss with magic attacks then we have another 2 or 3 abilities more that go to the trash and also add that has the lowest enmity generation of the 3 making the class even more painful against overgeared DPS pushing astronomic numbers...DRG

I've been a pally since 2.x and this is something always ha been a thing, but whit the implementation of the new tank seen what they could have pull off and all the flame that has been going on lately with ALEXANDER and PLD dps and usefulness makes me wonder what's SE thinking when making this class. Is like they though about the how to make the worst class and concentrate this though into one class. PLD

I think PLD should have a little more aoe love, some interesting mechanics, or atleast take the stance out of GCD as well as shield swipe, there's no reason for then to be part of the GCD and please make all those useless abilities USEFUL. blind and pacification are barely noticeable or helpful in any context. and cover is an ability that only gets dust on my hotbar since I've only use it on t13 4 month ago, idk but I have yet to find a class that has such amount of meaningless abilities that just sit there without use.

BTW this is personal opinion and experience.

Yea, i have been a a PLD since 2.0 also, so i know that feeling. I am sure SE will make the necessary changes to PLD, and add him some things that will make him fun. I had the ideas of having PLD obtain stacks, or maybe have his skills like shield swipe activate one of the last three GB,RA,RoH. Also, Drk has the skill reprisal, which lowers the strengh of a target, why not add one to PLD but instead of decreasing phy, it decreases mag. Pld should also have more active skills oGCD (30 secs or so), something like the shockwave (the sultan's Brand) when he was facing solkzagyl the loyal (The last PLD job quest). The shockwave looked like a AoE, and cince PLD only has CoS, the shockwave would be very good for him. If PLD could get at least 4 more skills, and maybe just maybe a stacking buff of some sort, that would make him the best like War n Drk

I... would be careful with this one. My PLD hotbars are pretty crowded as is.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

I... would be careful with this one. My PLD hotbars are pretty crowded as is.

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true true lol but there are many skill we can take off like bloodbath and stoneskin, shield bash (doesnt stun many bosses or adds like in savage) Shield swipe and some others depending on the dungeon because you will not be using every skill in one dungeon. Having all Cds in the hot bar is over crowding though, that is true.

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Originally Posted by Tadus

true true lol but there are many skill we can take off like bloodbath and stoneskin, shield bash (doesnt stun many bosses or adds like in savage) Shield swipe and some others depending on the dungeon because you will not be using every skill in one dungeon.

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Yes, I don't really disagree with the principle of making some skills play into others better, making them more relevant and suchlike.

As a PLD that tried to make it work, but wound up switching to DRK, this is really the core of what the PLD grievances are since 3.0 released. The other two tanks are fun and PLD isn't. We play the game to have fun. Doesn't get much more simpler than that.

That's why i'd like to see a change in the dynamics of stances for PLD. Not to make it more complicated but to make the class more streamlined.

I said this in another thread but I really think that SwO should be a passive that is active all the time. ShO would then be an active "stance" that cancels the effect of the passive and does the exact same thing that it does now. It would allow you to swap back to SwO by cancelling a stance, thus not losing the GCD or dropping a combo, but would require the same things that it requires now to actually activate shield oath.

Tempered will could also then be made stance dependent easily enough as we would always be in one or the other. Have it have the same effect when in ShO but do a regain effect in SwO.

Cover just needs to be able to soak up magic damage and it would be a great OT support ability that would be able to bypass certain stack mechanics if operated correctly.

RoH should apply a 5% slashing debuff ( along with the other two tanks and ninja being able to apply 5%) that is stack-able up to 10% on any one mob. This way you could apply it to multiple mobs in a group or raise it to 10% on a mob. Also, increase enmity multipliers to be the same as the other two tanks ( not sure why this hasn't happened.)

Switch the STR down debuff to RA to cement it into a rotation.

Give shield swipe a chance to proc a fast cast on clemency so its useful for main tanking. It would still have the same cast if off tanking leaving it as a solid support ability.

That would be some of the major changes i'd love to see to PLD.

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Originally Posted by Phoebus

As a PLD that tried to make it work, but wound up switching to DRK, this is really the core of what the PLD grievances are since 3.0 released. The other two tanks are fun and PLD isn't. We play the game to have fun. Doesn't get much more simpler than that.

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Funny you say i switch, all i said was that Drk has this skill. I like PLD and my main is PLD but all i want are new skills and since there are way to changing it we may as well tell SE what we want. Its like choosing what you want no your ice cream or how you want your new car. While we do play for fun it does not mean you have to conform.

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Originally Posted by Tadus

Funny you say i switch, all i said was that Drk has this skill. I like PLD and my main is PLD but all i want are new skills and since there are way to changing it we may as well tell SE what we want. Its like choosing what you want no your ice cream or how you want your new car. While we do play for fun it does not mean you have to conform.

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I was referring to myself.

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Originally Posted by Tadus

Funny you say i switch, all i said was that Drk has this skill. I like PLD and my main is PLD but all i want are new skills and since there are way to changing it we may as well tell SE what we want. Its like choosing what you want no your ice cream or how you want your new car. While we do play for fun it does not mean you have to conform.

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oh gosh i am so sorry!! lol i read it wrong

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Originally Posted by Ercapote

The main thing that bothers me about the Paladin is how much dead weight is loaded onto it's skills.

Tempered Will? Useless

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Far from it. Any time there is a predictable forced movement attack or anything that inflicts heavy, a paladin should be considering using it. Lack of players using it does not make it useless.

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Cover? Useless

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More incredibly difficult to use effectively. It has two conditions and you need both to get any use out of it. If an attack isn't physical there is no reason to use it and if the target isn't in 10y the buff doesn't transfer damage.

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Pacification? Useless in any situation where it'd actually be useful.

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That is more the fault of the action it is tied to. If Shield Swipe didn't require a block to trigger pacification would be more reliable.

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Shield Bash? Rarely worth the TP

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When a mechanic needs to be stunned Paladins are the go to stunners. The tendency for others to use their oGCD stuns for DpS is where the problem lies. You can't stun anything when it needs to be if the Dark Knight/Dragoon/Monk/Warrior keeps using his 2s/5s stun on cooldown.

[QUOTE=Ultimatecalibur;3255644]Far from it. Any time there is a predictable forced movement attack or anything that inflicts heavy, a paladin should be considering using it. Lack of players using it does not make it useless.


well its not that they are useless, it is that it is not needed in many, but many raids. There are little to no chances you will be needing any one those skill. specially is savage where boss is non -stun able. If a person is a good tank, there is no need for cover, but it is a nice skill. and pacification? oh please.

I play Warrior and Paladin pretty evenly and if they were to give paladin a new mechanic I'd rather it not be a stacking buff like warriors wrath/abandon (unless its built through something other than combo skills).

I've always thought the idea of reducing cooldowns by a few seconds on Shield Swipe or Sheltron block would be an interesting mechanic (albeit simple).

I do not see the problem with PLD's skill being situational. They have their uses.

Tempered Will is great for when you want to keep boss positioning. T9 second heaven's fall for example. T5 dive bombs while moving snakes. Leviathan Ex while keeping blue orbs away from raid. A3S hand phase.

Cover is great for any OT situation where you want to delay a swap.

Abilities being situational and not needed all the time doesn't make them useless. Check the other classes if you want useless. I'll list some of what comes to mind just for fun.


Monk:

Aside from situationalities of Fists of Earth and Wind, MNKs have literally useless abilities.

Haymaker (Counter)... Evasion is not a thing. Having a skill that requires the MNK to be tanking in the first place is a joke.

Arm of the Destroyer: Very weak AoE, very expensive TP and the silence is very hard to land.


Summoner:

Energy Drain, situational at best. Under no circumstances should this ability be used.

Physic... lol. A residual ability meant for SCH.

Tri-bind: This ability was a disaster! (pun intended).


Black Mage: (I personally like this one!)

If one class has it bad, it's the BLM! They have a serious button bloat of entirely USELESS abilities. Let us begin!

Thunder/Thunder II/Thunder III: Three spells that do the same. Yes they have their uses, but really, couldn't SE just make it into 1 spell and add a trait later on for added time/damage? I mean like EVERY OTHER DOT IN THE GAME!

Surecast: Why does this even exist? Though PLD could use this for uninterruptable Clemency! lol

Sleep: Sleeping mobs was NEVER a thing in this game. If your tank asks for it, kick them. If your BLM casts it, tell them to uninstall. Though I remember this being used before first boss in Wanderer's Palace speed runs.

Blizzard II: If your BLM is using this outside of FATEs, kick them.

Freeze: You thought Blizzard II was bad? This one is worse, it has 4s cast! It's ground target (takes time) and does 40 potency! BLMs that cast Freeze (or even have it on their bar) should uninstall the game and probably commit sudoku. (Yes I know the difference)

This is what comes to mind. But really, PLD has it good! lol

But a more interesting style of play is always welcome. I think the fact they got three combos is a huge step forward.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

I do not see the problem with PLD's skill being situational.

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There's nothing wrong with abilities being situational but like Haymaker requiring a dodge to proc, the pacification on Shield swipe could use some sort of tweak. Also with the addition of a spell with a 3s cast (clemency) it wouldn't be a stretch to ask for a tweak on Tempered Will as well.

With the addition of new skills, old skills could use some adjusting / changing / reworking.

Paladin Skills? Situational?

Check Scholar Skills after level 52. I haven't even got the quests yet! =D I don't think I would ever use them unless I was desperate.

I've main pld since 2.X and I am myself hand it was a hard to choice to main either PLD or DKR.

And with the new combo skills PLD got for me it's made it's rotation very fun. Most people just look at PLD as a plain plate and don't do much with it. It's a very utility based job and that's what I like about it. Most skills people just smear off to one side and think it doesn't have any use but just because you can't find a use for it dons't mean there isn't a use for it.

1. Stoneskin. I've got this damn thing on tap and find many uses for it, incoming big attack, when someone died and is low on Hp *poping SS might save them from a attack*
2. Divine Vile. It's your Stone SKin cast on every one in PLD form! what more could you ask for?
3. Tempered will! it's been mentioned in the above post.


Now let's get into DPS rotation if your just going 123, 124, then your not outputting the max DPS a PLD can do.

My roation is:

Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Rage of Halone
Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Fight or Flight -> Goring Blade+ Circle of Scorns
Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Royal Authority
Fast Blade -> Savage Blade -> Rage of Halone
Fast Blade -> Riot Blade -> Goring Blade+ Circle of Scorns *just before FOF wears off this should ensure Aggro is kept and your doing Max DPS but if require switch out the goring Blade combo for a Rage of Halone one.

So yeah yeah there is more to PLD now then just 1,2,3.

For Cover I find a few uses for it, In dungeons when healer has Aggro on newly spawned mobs and they rush to them straight away.

So PLD is only suited for those that they make interesting.

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

it wouldn't be a stretch to ask for a tweak on Tempered Will as well.

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Do not touch my TW!! its awesome skill to have in pve(TitanEX/LeviEX/RavanaEX/A3/T9 and bacially every fight that has KB/Heavy)and its godlike in pvp, and guess what skill i missed the most when i was leveling a DRK? it was cover and i only really noticed that after i didnt have it(Covering a pray target in AS1 specially if they just popped BfB makes healers life alot easier, and it also cheesed T13 earth shakers by removing those lava puddles that you would normally get).

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Do not touch my TW!!

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Yo son i just want Sure Cast effect added to tempered will yo DAMNNNNNNNNNN! CAN I JUST DREAM A LITTLE BIT DAMNNNNN!

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Originally Posted by Gooner_iBluAirJGR

Yo son i just want Sure Cast effect added to tempered will yo DAMNNNNNNNNNN! CAN I JUST DREAM A LITTLE BIT DAMNNNNN!

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Well that would be kinda cool but its easier to just cut Clemency cast by 50%

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Originally Posted by Tadus

well its not that they are useless, it is that it is not needed in many, but many raids. There are little to no chances you will be needing any one those skill. specially is savage where boss is non -stun able. If a person is a good tank, there is no need for cover, but it is a nice skill. and pacification? oh please.

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In A3 both Normal and Savage, the Big Hand form has an AoE knockback attack called Wash Away which can be negated with Tempered Will and the Tornado form has adds that can be and should be stunned.

In A4 Normal Phases 1 and 2, If you stun the leg giving off steam the Perpetual Ray that follows deals reduced damage making it easier to survive therefore preventing the Manipulator from getting damage up stacks.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Monk:

Aside from situationalities of Fists of Earth and Wind, MNKs have literally useless abilities.

Haymaker (Counter)... Evasion is not a thing. Having a skill that requires the MNK to be tanking in the first place is a joke.

Arm of the Destroyer: Very weak AoE, very expensive TP and the silence is very hard to land.

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You forgot One Ilm Punch.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

In A3 both Normal and Savage, the Big Hand form has an AoE knockback attack called Wash Away which can be negated with Tempered Will and the Tornado form has adds that can be and should be stunned.

In A4 Normal Phases 1 and 2, If you stun the leg giving off steam the Perpetual Ray that follows deals reduced damage making it easier to survive therefore preventing the Manipulator from getting damage up stacks.



You forgot One Ilm Punch.

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I like the post you made so far and it's pretty much what I'm trying to get at. There's more to PLD then it's 1,2,3 it's been branded with.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

In A4 Normal Phases 1 and 2, If you stun the leg giving off steam the Perpetual Ray that follows deals reduced damage making it easier to survive therefore preventing the Manipulator from getting damage up stacks.

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I got the feeling that you MUST stun it in savage or its GG :P

I think that the biggest problem isn't that we have situational skills, it's that almost all of our abilities are situational skills. I personally think that before adding more skills, they should rework some of the skills that we already have.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

I got the feeling that you MUST stun it in savage or its GG :P

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Let's just say... it plays a much bigger role in Savage.

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Paladin Skills? Situational?

Check Scholar Skills after level 52. I don't think I would ever use them unless I was desperate.

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I use emergency tactics, deployment tactics, broil and indomnability regularly.

If you're not, you're bad. Dissipation is so situational its near useless but a crit Adlo + E4E on Lily > Deployment Tactics on pull = lol.

PLD doesn't need more buttons. We need buttons that aren't simply "take less damage for X seconds" in the same way copied 20 times. Guaranteed block, increase block rate, increase defence, damage taken reduced, crit nullification (is this even necessary?)... Basically it looks like this: *insert rotation of CDs* every fight. How different from wow is that? *Pop Shield Wall for big hit, keep shield block on CD* or *Divine Protection on big hit, Shield of the Righteous every 3HoPo*

Boring. Between those and two combo chains we got too many damn redundant buttons.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

You forgot One Ilm Punch.

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Forgive me, I haven't monked since 2.2 came out. lol But still, how could I forget the single most useless skill in the game?!

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Originally Posted by Nadirah

PLD doesn't need more buttons. We need buttons that aren't simply "take less damage for X seconds" in the same way copied 20 times. Guaranteed block, increase block rate, increase defence, damage taken reduced, crit nullification (is this even necessary?)... Basically it looks like this: *insert rotation of CDs* every fight. How different from wow is that? *Pop Shield Wall for big hit, keep shield block on CD* or *Divine Protection on big hit, Shield of the Righteous every 3HoPo*

Boring. Between those and two combo chains we got too many damn redundant buttons.

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PLD is meant to be the boring straightforward tank. It's basically what you signed up for. Also tanking in WoW was more fun than tanking on PLD here. Which is why I play DRK/WAR instead.

I just want Tempered Will to have a different ability. Currently, that is the most unused ability for my PLD. I even use Cover once in a while for AOEs.

Maybe let it buff shield for certain a small amount of time to reflect magic damage, so Sheltron + Tempered Will is a good thing for magical tank busters.

I'm not asking for a kind of OP ability, I just think Tempered Will (nulls knocback effect and esuna Heavy) could be replaced with a better synergy with the rest of PLD's toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Tadus

Do not get me wrong, i am very grateful SE added GB and RA but besides that, there is nothing much to do. Cds here, sheltron there and done. War and Drk are very fun classes because they have a VAST amount of CDs to press.

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So go and play WAR or DRK. Variety in gameplay is a good thing, and we shouldn't aim to make PLD like WAR or DRK just because you want more buttons to push. That's the mentality that ruins classes in the long run. Let the people that want a ton of buttons to press gravitate to WAR/DRK. I'll be happy here with PLD and its straightforward design and simple gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

So go and play WAR or DRK. Variety in gameplay is a good thing, and we shouldn't aim to make PLD like WAR or DRK just because you want more buttons to push. That's the mentality that ruins classes in the long run. Let the people that want a ton of buttons to press gravitate to WAR/DRK. I'll be happy here with PLD and its straightforward design and simple gameplay.

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There's actually any number of ways to make PLD have more options without adding to its button scheme. Read the post I made on page 1. You could actually easily remove buttons from PLD and make it more effective and even more straightforward to use.

2 stances when your have no benefit for not using one or the other is silly design. WAR gets away with it because they had only one at lvl 50 and even now its off the GCD.

I'm not gonna rehash the post as its already there for people to read.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

So go and play WAR or DRK. Variety in gameplay is a good thing, and we shouldn't aim to make PLD like WAR or DRK just because you want more buttons to push. That's the mentality that ruins classes in the long run. Let the people that want a ton of buttons to press gravitate to WAR/DRK. I'll be happy here with PLD and its straightforward design and simple gameplay.

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I like PLD thats the thing, but if they can add something like Drk's Reprisal (making it reduce mag instead of phy for pld), another AoE, and fix some skill we have, why not ask?

Tempered Will is far from useless.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

PLD is meant to be the boring straightforward tank. It's basically what you signed up for. Also tanking in WoW was more fun than tanking on PLD here. Which is why I play DRK/WAR instead.

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I'd rather they consolidate my redundant buttons.

And tanking in wow was more fun before they made threat a joke.

What the majority of this threat is missing is the FACT that PLD right now is just bad designed, yes 3 new combos and you can make use of it and make it interesting for YOURSELF but that doesn't mean the class isn't plain simple and uninteresting at best. lets recap...

Cover - ability only needed at t13 that one time on that one fight. personally been sitting 4 month in my hotbar with no use. you will only truly need it if you suck at keeping agro and even if you do better by just provoking that mob back, only protect against physical hits mostly useless
Tempered will - makes no different if you use or not, almost all knockbacks are non-lethal and let's be honest, if you play like you are supposed to you really, reeeally don't need it for anything. only useful on pvp and you even have a pvp ability that does exactly the same people can put 300 difference situations of that 1 time the use it but still taking out is mostly useless. personally I rarely use it since you only need to stick the fight mechanics and you can use only 1 time at most per fight.
shield swipe/pasification DPS lost useless debuff only applicable to trash mobs super easy aoe they end up doing 2 seconds after you cancel that 1 mob with that 1 debuff - this is ability is just utter trash.
flash/blind not a bad ability but compare to DRK aoe galore and War is just poopo. give the change to make the move miss the target, if I say I notice a difference I'll be lying, rarely noticeable utility and doesn't hurt anyone they miss maybe 1 o 2 hit per mob and on the healing aspect doesn't help at all, nothing compare to damage dealt by other tanks aoe that can help speed up those dungeon grind quite a bit.
shield bash A.K.A the longest Stun lest get real aside from t5 and leviathan and pvp, when have we ever use this longest stun varely does any damage and most of the time just sits there on raid content. is not a bad ability and I personally have no problem with in fact I like it, but it doesn't get use so often.
Clemency heal is decently low on pt member, cast time is too long, cost more than half of your mp and it result on a huge dps lost. and with that recast time helaers outcast you and recover the mp by the time you let it out making you waste your ability and mp
and this is just some of the abilities now lets go to the CD

SHELTRON - guaranteed block "1" PHYSICAL attack if it's magical this ability is useless - looking at you alex.
BULKWARD - Increase Block ( block only work with physical attacks) so on a magical fight, useless - looking at you alex
SHIELD - automatic block ( physical block) tanks magic tankbusters - F U ALEX!

only useful CD
RAMPART
SENTINEL

fun fact both tanks have the same relative CD

DRK
SHADOW WALL
SHADOW SKIN

are exactly the same

WAR
INNER BEAST
VENGEANCE
almost the same and even better.

and both tanks can cross class
CONVALENCES
AWEARENESS
gg

now on top of all this let's add the fact that PLD is the weakest of all tank because is supposed to be a DEFENSIVE tank ( dark knight does the same and better since it mitigate magical attacks) + stronger DPS (war are beast on self sustain and have just as much defense as PLD ) + mother of mother@#$$ tank DPS.

so can someone please tell me a reasonable explanation to this? everything about PLD compared to other options on the game is just bad by far the only class with so many situational abilities that only work "on that dungeon that one time when the planets align" sure you can tell me about how you save the group that 1 time or you prevent a wipe on that raid.

I've done that too we all probably have that 1 use that 1 time, but doesn't take out the fact that are abilities we don't touch and it's not about 1 is about a pack of abilities concentrated in 1 class that on top of that is the least enjoyable of the 3 or even of all the classes of the game and it's been even punished on performance compared to the other 2 tanks since they are just better on everything about PLD so yeah the class need a fix and big one because right now is just a mix of a disaster.

again personal opinion and experience.

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Originally Posted by Ercapote

again personal opinion and experience.

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You said it yourself. "Personal". Doesn't make what you said true.

Also.... "Hallowed Ground"... (Sorry, had to say it).

Piece of advice, PLD abilities aren't your flavor? play another job. You can change jobs on the same character so you're not missing out on anything.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

You said it yourself. "Personal". Doesn't make what you said true.

Also.... "Hallowed Ground"... (Sorry, had to say it).

Piece of advice, PLD abilities aren't your flavor? play another job. You can change jobs on the same character so you're not missing out on anything.

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thx for the advice in case you care to know I did, currently playing DRK just about to go main WAR.

know I've seen you in the forum quiet a bit, we already know each other miss war, but will you also care to show me where my "opinion" aren't true? try to maintain inflate % out of the mix lets focus on the imbalance between PLD and other tanks.

btw I don't care about dps just balance.

and that "hallowed ground" isn't an excuse for the "defensive" tank advantage over the 2 tanks. if you where a paladin you will know how that ability is also not used so often it's a "HO SH!T" ability that only last 10 seconds and has a nasty latency that end up causing you to die before the animation ends and loosing the actual ability, she will help a lot used properly on certain situations still not that big of and advantage since WAR and DRK have an ability that serve the same purpose (not as good) but hell if you give them also something like that then just erase PLD from the game.

In dungeons and other df instances I find pld far more useful as more and more and still more "healers" do entire dungeons on cleric stance leaving my clemency to keep dps alive. Raids- not a single player wants to hear "but I can stoneskin and heal" all anyone cares for anymore is dps dps dps.

The biggest grievance I have with PLD is that, not only are Shield and Sword oath part of your GCD, they cost mana and also interrupt your combos, whereas with WAR you can now keep all your Wrath stacks, maintain your combo, and switch oGCD. Since Defiance and Shield Oath add the same eHP to both tanks, it's odd the stances are handled so differently. Haven't played DRK, but I'm fairly sure at least Darkside is oGCD(?) on top of the nice bonus it can be stacked with Grit.

Simply making stance dancing more viable would add interest to the class.

In raid, Clemency is situational. I use it in A2S, but otherwise my casts are usually wasted because my healers are solid or the cast itself gets interrupted since, you know, I'm tanking. If it were instant cast on a longer CD, it would be more usable than it is now.

I agree that Cover and Tempered Will are situational, and it feels like Cover has virtually no use in this current raid cycle.

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Originally Posted by carbonx

I agree that Cover and Tempered Will are situational, and it feels like Cover has virtually no use in this current raid cycle.

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Cover can be used on prey targets. So you can push dps harder in p1 a1s since you know the pld will be taking the prey as a healer.

Also, in a1s if someone goofs and gets hit by the resin blasts while the jump is coming you can cover that person and take the 4 jump hits preventing that person from dying.

That being said. PLD needs some help in the fun department. Boredom/Simplicity shouldn't be a feature of the class since literally no other class in the game has that.