For a long time I thought about doing a post about the things I would really want to see added or changed in PvP because I want to see it improve. I'm sure you know some of them, but I have yet seen a discussion about some others.
My post was too big for a single thread so I decided to link the Google Doc here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
I am open to your feedback and to your ideas. Post them below after the read!
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08-18-2015, 12:28 PMPetite10 Controversial adjustments to PvP [Come take a look Zhexos]
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08-18-2015, 01:03 PMSessurea
1) Implement duels, balance doesn't matter because duels are about testing rotations etc, Yoshi do this pls D:
2) Ditch the dumb GC system already
3) implement GC ow pvp if we must keep this GC system. Participants would have to wear specific gears in order to participate. A use for the stupidly useless pvp gears maybe? People who do not want to pvp completely unaffected ( therefore surely wont bitch and moan at the mere mention of the topic as usual )
4) implement housing estate pvp ( idk, random cool idea I had, probs tons of potential )
5) basically for the love of god, implement a pvp that doesn't involve me queueing for an hr....losing interest and exiting game. -
08-18-2015, 04:42 PMCeveArthu
I dont see any controversial change listed there, aside from that they are all using FL as the balancing point
I dont quite see how changing tomeliths to the territory capture mechanic would remove randomness, the only thing it would really accomplish would be stopping most roamers being viable after an initial capture -
08-18-2015, 09:04 PMGeologoAgree with u.Quote:
Originally Posted by CeveArthu
And to OP, don't give damage buff to healer pvp action?
Tbh you really think that could be problematic?
even with an attack with 500 potency as healer witout clerci stance u are useless as DPS
Also I have to admit that I'm not a Machinist or a Bard, but I played a lot of FLs and up to me Bards seems fine, expecially watching at the final result, instead I totally don't know for machinist, or they are low in number compared to other jobs, or they really have problem in FL.
Wanderes Minuet is a mechanic that u should pop only when u think u will be able to burst someone and u are protected in a good range, even BLM have hard days now cause a constant loss of Line of sight and long cast time or get even more focused when using Ley Lines. -
08-19-2015, 07:40 AMPetiteI don't think you understand. Why would you want to give an upgrade of 50 damage potency to a healer's pvp skill if they can't even use cleric stance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geologo
Without cleric stance, healer damage is useless. Thus, this is a useless upgrade for healers. I want them to replace that "upgrade" with something that makes more sense. -
08-19-2015, 07:55 AMRiceisNice
I'll just input on what I need to, rather than pointing out and agreeing with no additional comments.
6. North spawn is literally the worse for this reason. None of their nodes offer any strategic value, and it's very easy for them to get sandwiched by multiple node combination spawns since they're all so close in proximity of another node that could be claimed by the otehr two teams. Cave team has the most strategic value due to the amount of uphill nodes they have and the close proximity of each other for easy defending.
Oh, and get rid of the goddamned uphill node that's next to the Long Defile. It's utter douchebaggery when you're entering caves and people can snare you from uphill and casters are uncontested
7. GB/WM needs to remove the damage penalty from range. The whole point of the penalty was so that a bard could not indefinitely kite people at max range and still deal high damage. Having cast time makes them psuedo casters who can't reactively adjust their range to maintain their damage output. In the scope of the example above, you'll never sweetspot your attacks as a MCH/BRD on that uphill node.
While bard and machinist in their own right has some very insane burst damage, so do other classes. And these come with a ranged penalty so they need to maintain a sweet spot range (giving them a lower effective range than a summoner). Outside of burst, they can turret like a BLM, but they won't do it as well because of again, damage penalty. A BLM you can't really ignore because their spells will hurt you. A MCH or BRD firing at max or melee range won't ever see higher than triple digits on even their highest potency hits, and against a target that's constantly moving, they won't be staying in the sweetspot range for long if they are not reactively adjusting their positioning.Quote:
Also I have to admit that I'm not a Machinist or a Bard, but I played a lot of FLs and up to me Bards seems fine, especially watching at the final result, instead I totally don't know for machinist, or they are low in number compared to other jobs, or they really have problem in FL.
Wanderes Minuet is a mechanic that u should pop only when u think u will be able to burst someone and u are protected in a good range, even BLM have hard days now cause a constant loss of Line of sight and long cast time or get even more focused when using Ley Lines.
To add my own, they should rework the hit detection for ranged LB (Terminal Velocity). The way it is right now, it won't hit anyone that's on a different elevation than you. That accounts all the nodes that have a bottle neck entry on an elevation where a caster LB would shine (and deal more damage no less) The effective width of ranged LB is utterly pitiful and having the height difference causing a miss practically renders the distance-range to be moot. It's only really reliable to secure it on someone whose been holmganged (which you, again, can do the same with caster LB for more damage). Did I mentioned that this is the weakest LB damage wise with the least effective range? -
08-19-2015, 12:41 PMPetite
^
I agree. Bards and mch should have their range penalty removed when in wm/gb stance since they basically become pseudo casters at this point. -
08-19-2015, 10:45 PMGeologo
I can't reply in a very competent way like RiceisNice did for BRD/MCH cause my bard is only lv 50, but to be honest watching at the final result bards seems to be a good classes even up to now and more than one time they gave me trouble as all the other classes depending on which classes am I playing.
If I could "agree" with lowering the ranged damage reduction while in GB or WM I'm totally out thinking to remove it while in that stance, bard is a buff managment class, he can pop all CD and get good damage for few seconds, while in WM it's true that u have cast times, but they are very fast compared to the casters ones and the stance already provide a DPS buff.
But I think I should have to try it before >.<
Yep I misundertood, I took it like "healers you have to heal only", sorry XDQuote:
Originally Posted by Petite
It is instead a good adjustment (and they shoulded have consideret it while removing CS) considering that they tuned off CS, but anyway as healer there are few times that u could kil someone that ir running away and there I pop all I could do, for that if they dont' mind to give us back CS or something similar, they could instead enhance A LOT the damage that those long cooldown skills make, like making it a 400 potency skill for a decent hit.
PS. the astrologian skill's damage and upgrade is even more ridiculus ._. -
08-20-2015, 12:07 AMRiceisNice
It's a 50% damage loss whenever you're not in sweet spot range. Even with the bonus, you lose auto attacks and the 50% is applied after all is said and done.
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08-20-2015, 01:30 AMDomira
Nerf push back? Stop attacking the tank. How hard is that?
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08-20-2015, 03:56 AMRedfame
Yes, SMN have a good dmg (like melee LB and not more), but only for 3 äther, and than drops the dps down to 200 for 1 min.
But the biggest problem is, your can post what your want but SE will never do changes.
I did some post for *if player are out of range for healing, than they should be transparent in party/alliance* but nothing happen. -
08-20-2015, 04:01 AMIagainsti
Leave Pushback the eff alone.
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08-20-2015, 05:12 AMJohnMccain
One thing I would like to see is level 60 versions of the old modes. To encourage people to go back and play these modes (so it isn't 8v8v8 every time and long queue times) move the tomes received at the end of the game to a roulette that you can queue for infinite times a day (or make some incentive to queuing the roulette). The game is already lacking pvp content, and for some odd reason SE thought it was a good idea when releasing new content to make the old equally enjoyable content irrelevant.
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08-20-2015, 05:18 AMTwiissTwiissWe barely have people queuing for 1 mode. Why making 3 modes and splitting the small pvp playerbase even more? This would kill the queue totally.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnMccain
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08-20-2015, 05:40 AMJohnMccainYes and that is why you create a roulette that gives the tome portion of queuing pvp or some other incentive. I don't know about you, but playing the same mode/map over and over gets really boring.Quote:
Originally Posted by TwiissTwiiss
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08-20-2015, 07:26 AMFebrus
1. Yes please.
2. Maybe. I don't really have a problem with the way it is now, because it actually places more emphasis on killing the opponent rather than just scaring them to run away. Personally, I prefer it this way because you actually have to work for it when there's a pesky tank that just refuses to die and keeps aoeing the tome. Also, the old way would encourage team splitting in this mode, which already happens and totally kills gameplay. It's not a terrible idea, and could work, but I don't see a need for it and the pros are balanced by the cons.
3. Sure, I guess. I don't really notice them. So, w/e.
4. YES PLEASE. Also, in "character" or in "pvp profile" there should be a page for PvP loadouts. My PvP rotations are TOTALLY different from my PvE ones, especially with PvP specific moves. I should not have to constantly work around my pvp hotbars just because SE was too lazy to give us PvP specific character slots.
5. My instinct is to say no here. I get what you're saying, but, if you get caught out alone it's really your own fault. I don't feel like we should be giving the idiots out there who run wild anything that enables them to forgo teamwork any more than they already do. Idiots should be punished for hurting the team, not given bandages so they can do it again.
6. Yes. This is a Dev problem though. Until they fire their current PvP team (or hire one, cuz' I'm not convinced they actually have one) we can't expect them to fix problems like this.
7. No. PvE abilities will never be adjusted just for the sake of PvP. SE doesn't care enough, and the coding would be a pain in the ass and probably open the door to bugs. Honestly, they'd probably have to overhaul the entire pvp system for things like this to get adjusted.
8. Sure, I guess. Not sure how I feel about MORE status debuffs, given that they run rampant with the new SMN rotations and purify is way too slow to keep up, but I get the reasoning here.
9. No. Again, they will never change PvE abilities for the sake of PvP, and, honestly, SMN's can be worked around. People cry about their dmg because the sudden burst dmg is insane, but, keep in mind, that SMN's are also one of the squishiest classes in the game. Even a tank can solo Dps a SMN to death if they know their rotations good enough. You want a way to avoid SMN potency? Kill the SMN. Easy.
10. No. Tanks are supposed to be deterrents. FFXIV's PvP lacks defense. You have no ability to dig in. Ground aoe's are nice, but not that threatening, and there's no such thing as building defenses or creating a shield wall. Tanks, and sleeps/binds, are the ONLY things that make attackers think twice about advancing. I get what you're saying about WAR's, but PLD's already lack practically any threatening dps. If a DPS wants to be dumb and kill themselves, that's their problem. In practice though, I don't see it happen too often.
Nice post -
08-20-2015, 01:35 PMBeckett
1. I don't really have a problem with the GC restrictions, but I guess I wouldn't mind the mercenary system, provided it didn't force everyone to queue as mercenaries just to get good queue times.
2. No thank you. I appreciate that the capturing mechanic is different in Seize, especially since it actually allows a single defender to defend. A 2 on 1 situation in Secure means the one guy will eventually have the point taken out from under him, no matter how long he stays alive. In Seize a single defender can keep an entire party from capping a point if he can manage to last long enough.
3. It's just background noise to me. I find them utterly pointless, so I would be fine with a toggle to turn them off.
4. YES OH GOD YES! It amazes me that this still isn't in the game. -
08-20-2015, 01:35 PMBeckett
5. I don't see the need. There have only been a handful of situations where I both haven't died and haven't had someone around to cure me. I've run into a similar situation trying to use Return, but it's so rare it doesn't seem worth the effort to "fix".
6. While some spawns are clearly better than others, I don't think they're as bad as everyone says. Adjustments to the northern points and the cave point near mid would be welcome, though.
7. Absolutely.
8. Eh, that's fine I guess, but are you really having trouble finding a use for those 8 points? Even at rank 50 I wish I had more skill points to spend.
9. SMN could probably use some adjustment.
10. Hot damn, I've been neglecting Push Back! I need to use it more often! -
08-20-2015, 10:02 PMGeologo
for the 4.PvP skill Presets point SE, I don't remember where and wen replied it it saying something like "PvP skill Presets for any job will exceed the viable data for any character".
So I have a counteroffer.
Let's give us the opportunity to write a macro for it and for the crossclass skills!
It will be anyway annoying for the ones that doesn't use macros, but atleast you will need to do it just once!
10. When I read pushback I was totatally happy for PLD, and maybe DRK, but... hem... I think WAR doesn't need it xD
and..
11. Give Purify another enhancement that reduce one more time its cooldown and/or make the previous "from 180s to 150s" stronger like "from 180s to 120s", considering how it is important to use it not only for CC but even to remove DoTs.
Or even better a new enhancement that say something like "If u use Purify on another party member its cooldown is lowered by 30sec".
12. Make Stat enhancement scale with lv, they work fine at lv 50, but at 60 are pretty wasted. -
08-25-2015, 04:12 PMVaeria
OP..ye shall always have warm milk, cookies, and a fluffy blanket at me estate for #7. And while, as stated, SE won't alter something in pvp if it interfers with pve, it'd be a simple enough fix to impliment. For anyone not in the know, say a drg pops b4b and comes after you. If you just used brd's WM, basically, you can do absolutely nothing offensively for the next 15 seconds while running for your life (since youre in caster mode, the ability can't be shut off for 15 secs) Wouldn't even mind if they made the recast 2-3 minutes tbh....just let us shut it off like Fists of Fire or w/e immediately.