So here's my opinion and personal feel for how paladins tank/have tanked in the past. Keep in mind, I am not level 60 on Pld yet, but have played PLD in 2.X series off and on.
I have ALWAYS found Shield swipe to be gratifying, maybe not in the damage it deals(which is decent though technically a loss at this point) or how it can feel clunky when trying to fit it into the combo in its fairly short window. However it is oh so sweep to light up the area as you Backhand something with your shield. As I see it right now, paladins have a couple pseudo-issues depending who you ask.
1. TP drain- They run out part way through fights.
2. Damage issues- ? too low in comparison to other tanks (again dont flame, depends who you ask.)
3. Shield Swipe dps loss- Its an overall loss to use it.
4. ^ Too clunky- feels like forever waiting to finish off that combo post swipe.
Paladin, Shield Swipe and you!
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08-14-2015, 09:03 AMTidePaladin, Shield Swipe and you!
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08-14-2015, 09:04 AMTide
Potential Fixes.
2+3+4: Make Shield Swipe OGcD and remove its TP cost, If its off the gcd, it makes it easier to use, no need to feel like its a bother to have to use a GCD in between your combos which would increase your Overall dps some maybe 210pot is too high for this gcd? that would be used often and maybe not, that's a balancing thing.
This helps with the issue i have found personally with plds. once SW and CoS are on CD......the rotations feel rather blah, slow, and dear god let something come off cd.
This also would add a little extra skill/awareness to the job in that you then need to decide (SS, defensive cd, are SW or CoS off gcd?) which to use given a specific situation. -
08-14-2015, 09:04 AMTide
1: However, Even if SS is ogcd and no tp cost, eventually doing the goring/halone/Authority combos will drain you dry. So I propose adding in a small refresh potency of 10 or 20pot to SS for a few seconds OR just a lump sum TP of 20-40?
This solves tanking issues, OT-dpsing well I personally think that's better left up to the Drk and War. if anyone has suggestions to the changes I proposed or suggestions for helping PLD OTing then do feel free to toss some opinions :P -
08-14-2015, 09:33 AMBrannigan
There's a couple things they could do with Shield Swipe
1) improve potency to 240~250. Shield Swipe is now usually a DPS gain and is good.
or
2) give it a secondary effect that actually works in real content
or
3) fun mode: 180 potency and opens all combo routes. Swipe->RA, Swipe->Goring, etc. -
08-14-2015, 09:43 AMFevelleI really like that one. (Not a paladin main myself, but...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
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08-14-2015, 10:12 AMTideThis! This would also work very well, I think if it did work like this, the window for using the proc would maybe need to be a little bit longer. I.E Fast-proc(oh shit!)-savage-halone-SW(Maybe proc is still up?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
I still think the ogcd is what I want most....god I hate when everything is on cd :P -
08-14-2015, 10:18 AMTouchandFeel
3) Fun Mode
This one comes off as by far the most interesting to me, don't know if its really balanced, but would definitely be fun to use. -
08-14-2015, 10:33 AMDisc
Shield Swipe is currently still a DPS gain. If you haven't noticed, the DoT effect of Goring Blade is unsynced by an entire GCD. Placing Shield Swipe in there will see an additional 40 potency tic. This limits you to an average of +50tp every minute, any additional shield swiping will result in a loss of potency. I would not be against seeing it boosted to 230(Royal Authority avg), but only if DRK was given a similar enhancement to their TP management, considering the benefits of Bulwark & Sheltron under this boost.
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08-14-2015, 11:12 AMJpec07I'm not sure if I agree. The potency is pretty good as it is (though it would make it more worthwhile to hit).Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
It works on trash and is a very effective way to reduce incoming damage. By Pacifying mobs, they can't do anything but white damage, which is substantially lower than if they could access their abilities.Quote:
2) give it a secondary effect that actually works in real content
I like the way you think. 8)Quote:
3) fun mode: 180 potency and opens all combo routes. Swipe->RA, Swipe->Goring, etc.
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08-14-2015, 04:42 PMBranniganPacify is great, but the only things even remotely relevant that it works on are Ifrit hard and like goblin snipers in A2S (there's a couple others from ARR but I lost my list). It's like the dispel on One Ilm Punch. Everyone already curbstomps dungeon trash, so having an ability that pretty much just works on it (actually two, sup blind) is kinda lame. At least we get to stun some stuff in raids.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpec07
Also, while shield swipe is still a DPS gain (except under fight or flight I think because you won't get your last combo ender in) I think that it should just be a little more of a DPS gain. If you don't use it at all right now you lose out on like 3-4 potency per gcd. Fracture is pretty much the same except it costs more TP. -
08-14-2015, 04:47 PMSwordswornFox
Either up its potency a little and leave as is so it isn't as big of a dps hit, or if we take it off the GCD give it small TP refresh to help prolong our combo usage would be two options I'm happy with.
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08-14-2015, 08:07 PMReynhartIn 1.x, Shield Swipe equivalent was called Phalanx and it opened a combo to Spirits Within.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brannigan
1.x ideas weren't all THAT bad, now, were they ? :p -
08-14-2015, 09:36 PMPhoeniciaConsidering PLD was considered shit-tier tank in 1.x and people solely picked WAR over it, I find it hard to believe that the PLD ideas were anything above bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynhart
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08-14-2015, 09:42 PMReynhartWhere do you think Goring Blade, Divine Veil (With a little adjustment), Sheltron and Clemency (With a change of name) come from ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenicia