So, my partner and I were talking several weeks ago about new classes, and he suggested something kind of radical to me that surprised me, but also made the creative juices start flowing. He suggested a pet class as a tank. We discussed it at length, talking about details, arguing about balance and what type of damage it might do, and we came up with something that feels a little like Druids from WoW mixed with the idea of the Beastmaster that everyone loves. So, here is the end result of a few hours or talk.
Beast Master: Totem Wielder
Introductory Flavor Text Theme Thingy: Nature is a fickle thing to understand, but the Beastmasters have become one with the wilds. From the dry earth deserts to the winds that rustle the leaves of the trees to the chill of the Tundras, the Beastmasters have tamed them all. They worship Mother Bear, Idolize the Free Eagle, and Respect the Furious Wolf. The wilds of Eorzea will never be the same.
SkillsLevel 1: Slam: (70 TP) Single target blunt damage 150 potency
Level 2: Bearskin: (150 second Cooldown) Reduces incoming physical damage by 20%. Absorbs mitigated damage as HP at the end of its duration. Lasts 20 seconds
Level 4: Beat (60TP) Single Target blunt damage 100 potency. Increased Enmity. Combo with Slam. Combo potency 200.
Level 6: Savage Slam (30 second cooldown) 100 potency AOE 90 degree frontal cone 5 second stun. 5 yalm reach
Level 8: Savage Swing: (150 TP) 140 potency AOE blunt damage. 5 yalm radius around player. Increased Enmity
Level 10: Milk of the Wolf: (60 second Cooldown) Increase damage by 10% for 15 seconds.
Level 12: Totem Crack: (60 TP) Single Target blunt damage 100 potency. Combo with Slam. Combo potency 210. Combo effect: Nullifies TP cost of Totem Crack
Level 15: Eagle Strike: (120 TP) Single Target 15 yalm ranged wind aspected damage 120 potency effected by strength. Increased Enmity.
Level 18: Hungry like the Wolf: (150 second Cooldown) Increases damage by 20%. Absorbs the increased damage as HP at the end of its duration. Lasts 30 seconds.
Level 22: Totem Drop (60 TP) Single Target blunt damage 100 potency. Increased Enmity. Combos with Beat. Combo potency: 250. Combo Effect: Increased Enmity.
Level 26: Razor Wings: (150 second Cooldown) Reduces incoming magical damage by 20%. Absorbs mitigated damage as MP at the end of its duration. Lasts 20 seconds.
Level 30: Bear Affinity (Costs MP, 10 Second Cooldown shared with Wolf Affinity) Decreases incoming damage by 15% and increases HP by 25%. Reduces outgoing damage by 25%. Increases Enmity generation.
Level 30: Spirit Bear (Cost MP, 30 second Cooldown) Calls the spirit of the bear to your side. The spirit attacks the Beastmaster's current target for a potency of 50 earth damage modified by the Beastmaster's Strength every 3 seconds. The spirit of the bear emits an aura to near by allies which reduces incoming damage by 5%. 5 yalm radius.
Level 34: Totem Crash: (150 TP) Single Target blunt damage 100 potency. Combos with Totem Crack. Combo Potency 250. Combo Effect while in Bear Affinity: Absorbs 50% of damage done as MP. Combo Effect while in Wolf Affinity: Reduces target's Blunt resistance by 10%. Does not stack with Monk's Blunt resistance down skill.
Level 35: Blood of the Bear: (160 second Cooldown) Decreases incoming damage by 35%. Lasts 18 seconds
Level 38: Totem Slam: (150 TP) Single Target blunt damage 100 potency. Combos with Totem Crack. Combo Potency 230. Combo effect in Bear Affinity: Absorbs 100% of damage done as HP. Combo effect in Wolf Affinity: Heals nearby allies for 25% of damage done.
Level 40: Wolf Affinity: (10 second Cooldown shared with Bear Affinity) Increases damage output by 10%.
Level 40: Spirit Wolf: (Cost MP, 30 second Cooldown) Calls the spirit of the wolf to your side. The spirit attacks the Beastmaster's current target for a potency of 80 ice damage modified by the Beastmaster's Strength every 3 seconds. The spirit of the wolf increases the skill speed of nearby targets by 5%. 5 yalm radius.
Level 42: Howl of the Wolf: (150 second Cooldown) Increases spell and skill speed of allies within 15 yalms by 5% for 15 seconds.
Level 45: Razor Feathers: (45 second Cooldown) AOE wind damage in a 5 yalm radius around the Beastmaster for 50 potency augmented by strength for 24 seconds.
Level 47: Dances with Wolves: (180 second Cooldown) Increases Dodge Chance by 30% for 20 seconds.
Level 50: Totemic Rupture: (Cost MP) Deals Earth damage around the Beastmaster for 160 potency augmented by strength
Level 50: Spirit Harvest: (450 second Cooldown): If HP drops to 1, sacrifices the currently present Spirit animal to restore the Beastmaster's HP to 100%. Requires either Spirit of the Bear or Wolf to be present to activate. Buff duration lasts until used.
Level 52: Pulverize: (60 second Cooldown) Slams the totem down on selected target five times, inflicting 100 potency blunt damage per hit and inflicting Pacification for 6 seconds on the first hit.
Level 54: Leap (30 second Cooldown) Jump and slam your totem down on your target from a distance. Must be more than 10 yalms away. Inflicts Blunt Damage with a potency of 180.
Level 56: Wind Totem (60 second Cooldown) Pulls in targets in a 10 yalm radius around the beastmaster and inflicts AOE wind damage with a potency of 100. Increased Enmity
Level 58: Ice Totem (60 second Cooldown) Freezes targets within a 5 yalm radius for 3 seconds.
Level 60: Earth Totem (60 second Cooldown) Binds targets within a 5 yalm radius for 10 seconds.
TraitsLevel 8: Enhanced Vitality: Increases Vitality by 2
Level 14: Enhanced Bearskin: Reduces the recast time of Bearskin to 120 Seconds
Level 16: Enhanced Vitality II: Increases Vitality by 4
Level 20: Enhanced Milk of the Wolf: Increases damage buff to 15%
Level 24: Enhanced Vitality III: Increases Vitality by 6
Level 28: Enhanced Razor Wings: Decreases the recast time of Razor Wings to 120 Seconds.
Level 32: Enhanced Bear Affinity: Bear Affinity now also reduces the recast time of Spirit Bear to 15 seconds
Level 36: Enhanced Totem Crash: Increases the MP absorbed by Totem crash to 100% while in Bear Form
Level 40: Enhanced Totem Slam: Increases the Combo Potency of Totem Slam to 300
Level 44: Wolf Affinity: Wolf Affinity now reduces the recast time of Wolf Spirit to 15 seconds.
Level 50: Enhance Dances with Wolves: Increases the Dodge on Dances with Wolves to 50%.
Details: The Beastmaster is effectively a pet tanking class. It can summon two spirit animals, either a Bear or a Wolf. These animals, are like the Machinist's turrets in that they take damage from AOEs, but they are not stationary. They are not a pet like the Egi's since they only have auto attack and a small radius Aura. These pets can die, however, thanks to their low cooldowns, and since they are off the global, they can be quickly recalled, only costing MP. The Beastmaster uses a Totem Weapon to inflict blunt damage to enemies. These are large weapons, larger than the weapons in the game so far, and thus have a slow auto attack while having a higher auto attack damage than most tank weapons to balance out. The beast master does not block, but they can parry, however, slightly more focus has been put on their dodge, however, due to the nature of dodge, their mitigation does not revolve around it, much the same way that Paladin and Dark Knight mitigation does not revolve around block and parry respectively, but are instead additional benefits. The mitigation on the Beast Master is a lot like that of Paladin, where they reduce a flat amount of damage, however, these cooldowns have longer down times, but also return resources at the end of their durations based on the total amount of damage mitigated. The Beastmaster is adept at crowd controlling with access to a gap closer and a draw in as well as Stun, Pacification, Bind, and for the first time, a Freeze. As a main tank, the Beastmaster can help recover its own HP with Totem Slam, or maintain its MP with Totem Crash. This is vital as the Beastmaster's tanking stance is less potent than those of other tanks, and they are reliant on their Bear's Aura to help deal with this loss of potency. While maintaining their MP, they are also reliant on maintaining their pet's presence. Resummoning a pet comes at a steep MP cost, so managing MP is as crucial as it is for Dark Knights. While Off tanking, the Beastmaster is capable of keeping up their Blunt resistance debuff as well as helping to heal nearby allies since the effects of Totem Crash and Slam change with the Beastmaster's Affinity. Further, unlike Warriors and Paladins, the Beastmasters do not have a high potency self heal, their self healing is both reliant on the damage they do as well as the damage they receive. This makes cooldowns especially important to manage, as mismanagement can mean loss of potency. It also means that the tank can be difficult to manage from a healer stand point, as keeping them topped off can also lead to over healing at the end of certain cooldown durations. It is a complex job that can either really shine, or stumble if played improperly.
Obligatory idea in a picture:
New Tank (Beastmaster)
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08-13-2015, 10:04 AMCeodoreNew Tank (Beastmaster)
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08-13-2015, 10:10 AMGralna
WoW is that way ---> WoW
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08-13-2015, 10:12 AMMikhaillI dunno...I think it's incredibly rude to tell someone to go a MMO because they thought of a new Job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gralna
The guy even took his time and posted skills and everything. -
08-13-2015, 10:15 AMGralnaIt's basically a FFXIV version of WoW's Shaman, complete with totems, even used an image of a Tauren Shaman. If i wanted to play one, I'd go to WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikhaill
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08-13-2015, 10:21 AMCeodore
The point was to introduce something that seemed interesting and new for a tank. We currently have three tanking classes with slashing damage. So, my partner and I pondered over one that might do blunt damage. Further, we didn't want it to be like Shamans OR Druids from Wow, as this tank would use a totem as a weapon, not place them. Yes, I used a picture of a Tauren Shaman, but that was to give a thematic idea of what the weapon might look like in scale. AS I said, it would be the largest weapon yet in the game, and thus have a low attack speed but a high auto attack potency. Further, we wanted to try a pet tanking class. This specifically required a lot of discussion because there was discussion of whether the pet would be tanking, or if the player would be as well as if the player should have forms (like Druids from WoW) or stances, like the current tanks. We ultimately narrowed and argued it down to stances and the player being the main receiver of the damage while keeping away from things that would alter the character model (like WoW Druids) but also stick with the more animalistic and naturist theme of the Beastmaster.
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08-13-2015, 10:33 AMWelsper59
Beastmaster has always been associated with the manipulation of the enemy, particularly monsters/beasts. BST in FFXI is essentially the prime example of how the job works in an MMORPG. It's about charming wild beasts, where types will determine effectiveness for a given role (better suited for tank/damage), and unleashing them on the target. The idea of a Druid/Shaman-like hybrid CAN work, but it honestly seems to diminish the core symbolism behind the Final Fantasy job. The pet pretty much has to be similar to the companion chocobo, in that it's almost like another player with abilities and strengths/weaknesses, otherwise it's just some generic job that already exists without it. The pet has to be a significantly huge and active part of BST and unique in the sense of diversity through their pets. Think a melee SMN with a diverse selection of pets to use to fulfill certain needs (though generally that just means strongest pet for max damage).
Without the focus on the pet and it being active for everything a BST does, it'd be like taking away signature things that define a job in the FF world. Like if DRK did not utilize dark magic or sword-type weapons, or if PLD could not use shields. Even SMN in XIV is rather borderline in terms of being an FF SMN lol. The only plausible reasons they're considered a SMN is that Carbuncle was an actual full-fledged summon in starting the class, followed by the fact you have a pet and they're just named after summons of the series. Remove the primal/summon names and... well... the identity of the FF Summoner is lost, simply because of how little the Egi actually make you feel like the traditional job. -
08-13-2015, 10:38 AMCeodore
True, and if I had made it into a DPS, I would have come at it entirely differently. This was just an attempt between my partner and I to see if such a theme could be made into a tank. I understand what you mean, that the beasts are a big part of the beastmaster, and that was my very first argument against trying to make it into a tank honestly. However, the challenge was posed to me (mostly due to my partner's stubborn nature) to see what I might be able to come up with from a tanking perspective. I also understand that Beastmaster has always been a DPS class, and I couldn't agree more, that it probably should be such, a melee DPS. However, I did want to see if perhaps my ideas for making a tanking class were worth while. Which is why I posted it here, to get feed back on aspects of what I have proposed relating to balance and capabilities. Other ideas I have had in my head are things like elemental tanks (much like bunker building Elementalists from GW2) and melee weapon wielding ranged classes (like the Revenant, also GW2).
Future posters, please be gentle. I am well aware that BST is a DPS type class, and probably should be such. This was an experiment and a test for me to see if I could make something that is normally considered DPS (Like DRK was in FFXI for the most part) and turn it into something else. I DO NOT for a second believe that BST will ever be a tank, not really, so no need to beat that already dead horse. I just want to see what my fantastical ideas might get in response from all of you.
Just for reference, another idea I have had for tank is Rune Fencer (Piercing Magical Dodge type tank) but I haven't put anything to paper yet as far as skills and such. Even though this does not fit in line with the typical BST, I would like to know how well balanced people think what I have posted might be against the other three tanks, as well as different suggestions from y'all on things to add or take away or change. -
08-13-2015, 10:54 AMIagainsti
If you check the 4th tank thread, we collaborated on this before. I like the totem idea as a wep, just instead of having a pet per se, the "animals" summoned are just cool animations for stance buffs. Ex- Adamantoise buff that absorbs 30% of all incoming damage for 20 seconds or up to 15k hp, the action animation would be an ethereal adamantoise that stands by your side. A dps stance that increases action potency by 50 f
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08-13-2015, 10:55 AMRaidenz
If they ever add beastmaster and its not the best damn pet class in MMO history, I will find all the servers and bash my head against them until my fluids short them out :)
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08-13-2015, 10:56 AMIagainsti
XD on my phone) <contd> and summons an ethereal ant lion for animation. and the ranged aggro attack has to be a whip, like the dragon whisker from FFV or the like.
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08-13-2015, 10:56 AMWelsper59Honestly, Geomancer (in reference to your mention of an elemental tank) would work a lot more plausibly than BST. If DRK in XIV can be a tank, despite traditionally being very low on defensive stats, probably no reason a Geomancer couldn't if they argued a manipulation of the elements to act as magical armor or whatever, and strengthening themselves through INT (since the other stats are kinda overly spoken for) and GEO is typically light armor. BST, being that its core playstyle is through the active use of pets (and a wide assortment of them), would be too difficult to really get to work under an actual tank role (and not just something akin to Titan Egi). Melee ranged would be a little too unusual for this games party setup. They'd essentially be BRD with different animation, afterall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceodore
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08-13-2015, 10:58 AMCeodoreYou sound... dedicated. I have my doubts anyways on whether or not BST will ever be in this game or not. There are major things to work out for it from many different aspects of the game as far as function and balance. As Welsper mentioned, you either have a pet class with tons of different pets, or a non-pet class that just has animations and attacks using pets, like the Beastmaster from FFXII.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raidenz
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08-13-2015, 11:04 AMCeodoreYes, melee range is rather strange to me too. Like The Elementalists in GW2 were able to dual wield daggers, and it was still ranged damage mostly. It is strange, but GW2 was very good at their implementation, and thoughts on if it could be applied in this game intrigue me too. To respond about Geomancer, I'd honestly refrain from considering a class that always typically used cloth gear, as was the case with Geomancers usually. It was one reason I thought of something like Ruin Fencer. As far as my melee weapon wielding ranged class, I was considering something magical, like the Red Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Welsper59
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08-13-2015, 11:17 AMBigcat9715
I like the idea, but I think the totem weapon is a little weak. Maybe have it where the weapon is a giant hammer or twin smaller hammers.
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130223173332 -
08-13-2015, 11:25 AMCeodoreGiant hammer, sure... twin hammers... like that picture... uuhhh, no thank you. And the totem weapon was mostly to use something unique as a weapon that isn't normally seen in games. Like the AST using a star globe. Granted, they're a magic class, so it's more understandable, but it's the first time I've seen a weapon like it (unless you count Tera's Mage)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigcat9715
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08-13-2015, 01:00 PMGardes
So you make a pet class into a tank but puts minimal focus into the pets? Why even bother then? I'd rather see a BST that is 50/50 on character and pet and have their own dual tank dynamics either through damage sharing, transferring damage to one another, aggro swapping/transfer, etc. Something like the BST tanking all the boss auto attacks and then tank buster comes, the BST calls on his pet which then rushes in front of him and takes the tank buster instead, enters a weakened state, BST takes over again who then proceeds to tank the boss like normal while using skills to get his pet ready for the next tank buster.
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08-13-2015, 01:28 PMckc22A beastmaster without a pet is the fastest way to ruin the class. I'm not one to say that the jobs can't feel different/be adapted to fit into FFXIV - I'm fine with smn and drk for example. But this would be bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iagainsti
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08-13-2015, 03:44 PMDuelleConsidering that we could use the aesthetic variety, I don't see this as a bad thing. I'm sure there's people out there that want to tank but see the whole "has to wear plate armor" thing as a turn off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gralna
The problem is that BST pets would either be all the same in conjunction with a taming system (to eliminate false choices, since the person that likes Boars would be pissed if the "best" BST pet for tanking is a turtle), or have to be determined by the story. There's no avoiding it; some part of the concept would have to be adjusted.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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08-13-2015, 04:23 PMAriaEnia
Totem? you mean like a Tauren or something..?
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08-13-2015, 05:07 PMNektulos-Tuor
Feedback:
All Temp buffs:
They also affect and buff your pet in some way:
Level 10: Milk of the Wolf: (60 second Cooldown) Increase damage by 10% for 15 seconds.
Additionally increases your pets damage by double the amount.
Level 18: Hungry like the Wolf: (150 second Cooldown) Increases damage by 20%. Absorbs the increased damage as HP at the end of its duration. Lasts 30 seconds.
Your pets damage also heals you and itself with each attack.
Level 35: Blood of the Bear: (160 second Cooldown) Decreases incoming damage by 35%. Lasts 18 second
Your pet is also healed for 1200 Potency, you are healed for half that.
For all things.
Decrease all attacks potency by 30-50 Potency base. Your pet also does damage. You were giving yourself permanent Shield Oath, which was better since its damage wouldn't be reduced by your tank stance.
Bear Affinity:
Also affects the beastmaster's pets. However also reduces their damage.
Change damage reduced from 25% to 35% for balance purposes.
Additional Effect: Pet takes half penalty of damage and also takes 50% less damage from non-direct attacks.
Cannot stack with Wolf Affinity.
Wolf Affinity:
Change to 25% Critical Chance increase.
Also affects the beastmaster's pets.
Additional Effect: Makes pet immune to non-direct damage.
Cannot stack with Bear Affinity.
Spirit Wolf:
Calls the spirit of the wolf to your side. The spirit attacks the Beastmaster's current target for a potency of 80 ice damage modified by the Beastmaster's Strength every 3 seconds. The spirit of the wolf increases damage done by 10% in a 10 yard radius.
Spirit Bear
Calls the spirit of the bear to your side. The spirit attacks the Beastmaster's current target for a potency of 80 earth damage modified by the Beastmaster's Strength every 3 seconds. The spirit of the bear absorbs 5% of all damage the Beastmaster takes. -
08-13-2015, 09:36 PMckc22There's a massive difference between "adjusted" and "eliminated from the job."Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
Also jug pets. Also I don't think it matters if the "best" BST pet is a certain type - Titan can be your favorite summon and you still aren't going to use it during group content 99% of the time. -
08-13-2015, 10:32 PMSavagelf
no for bst tanking beast master will ulimate be ruined if we follow this way doing this like someone said this just copy and paste of a shaman in wow. beast master i like see is pet class with permit pets i know this not popular but i also like focus on give the crafting class ability make the pets favorite foods i like see with a whip but not for pets but more use for combat. i think be cool influence the beast master and pets have bond on friendship or kinship to each other. but that just me. i may influence to much by wow myself. sorry
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08-13-2015, 10:44 PMAldora
Well, i like the idea that Ceodore posted. But, i don’t really see how a pet class would work for a tank. From what i’ve read in the OP, the pets are mainly meant as a buff, rather than an actual pet like the Egi’s.
We can’t really have a Pet be a tank, unless we have full control over the actions the pets had, especially for keeping hate and popping the proper buff for each situation. Because of that, it’s better that the character him/herself would tank the target, while the pet is on the sidelines for support.
When you look at it like that, i would rather see something like what Iagainsti said earlier, a skill or stance that would give the caster or it’s party members a buff. Or maybe a combination of both, like skills that could only be used when you are in a certain “Spirit Animal” stance. -
08-14-2015, 12:18 AMKazrahDCUO actually had a pretty interesting system for a pet tank, where they used a mix of damage absorption as well as a damage deferrence system where their pet would intercept a set amount of damage the master would take (sorta like how Cover works) and the master would have an ability that heals the pet (like the Arcanist's Sustain skill) on a limited cooldown.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldora
Honestly, bravo to the OP not just for that much dedication in that creation experiment, but also to prove that the next tank job doesn't have to be the outstandingly unimaginative Samurai. -
08-14-2015, 12:19 AMApolloGenX
Milk of the Wolf- Thanks for that image... now I can't get it out of my head... /gag. Wolfteets!!
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08-14-2015, 01:31 AMRadacci
Titan egi, worked for a while, then it didn't...they aren't gonna add any other pet tanking.
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08-14-2015, 01:43 AMSylveDidn't Yoshi already say that he wanted the Samurai to be a DPS and not a Tank?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
On topic, I dont think a pet focused Tank Job would be ideal. Speaking as an Australian with significant lag problems just controlling Fairies and Egi's, trying to use pet control abilities in Warrior-like timing just would not end well.
I don't think the totem really fits for what you described either, especially given your use of the Tauren imagery. Tauren totem weapons are not limited to the Shaman, In fact, Tauren are literally the only race in WoW to ever utilize such things as weapons. Tauren just happened to be the original Shaman race.
Back in vanilla, Tauren had Shaman on the Horde and Alliance Human/Dwarf had Paladin as an analogue which is why Totems there gave virtually the same buffs the Paladin Auras/Blessings gave.
Its a cultural thing for that race more than it is an aspect of the Shaman class, they even use Totem themes in their buildings.
A two-handed Mace or dual maces would fit better than a totem.
I really quite like your idea, however i feel that it sounds more like a spiritualist/elementalist than a Beastmaster. Especially given the way you described the elemental totems at the end.
(The last 2 skills sound incredibly underwhelming though lol) -
08-14-2015, 03:25 AMKazrahI was mostly making a shot at all the people I know who want samurai tanks. "Oh, you want a tank in heavy armor with a big sword that relies on parry?".....yeah, dark knight's that way. ------>Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylve
I do agree with you on most of those points though. I'm well aware of Aussie latency issues, which is why a pet tank job would probably bear about as much control over their pet as Machinist turrets (basically none at all). Either a greathammer, dual mauls or dual chopper axes would make more sense as weapons of choice given how unwieldy a carved-out massive wooden post would be. Some of the skills do seem either lackluster or broken as well, but I understand the attempt to link the Beastmaster to something more spiritualistic for the sake of job lore and ability inspiration.
BTW Sylve, if you're gonna talk WoW lore, orcs were the original shaman race before tauren. =P -
08-14-2015, 03:39 AMSylveI forgot about Orcs. Entirely. Whcih is sad considering my Shaman was an orc when i took down Lich King. /facedesk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazrah
In my defense, i was primarily Alliance during vanilla up to mid Wrath... Which is no excuse at all, i cant believe i forgot about the orc shamans T-T -
08-14-2015, 03:53 AMSavagelf
we got 3 tank jobs and 2 pet jobs we need 1 more pet jobs and we 3 healer jobs too. i don't think we end to destroy beast master to make another tanking class more like we need another pet class. seem to me you can find another job ff wiki to meet you goals it might be better
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08-14-2015, 03:59 AMSavagelf
look at this http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Shaman there actualy job called shaman in ff
the fact we got paladin and warrior many of mmo got paladin mean the name shaman would free for take -
08-14-2015, 09:57 PMKazrahThis basically said "Shaman (n): see White Mage". Given that white mages are the ones dealing with elementals in FFXIV, this would make sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Savagelf
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08-14-2015, 10:00 PMSavagelf
yes shaman can be made for different class too notice they done it for many jobs