currently i have been playing AST alot and well it have an identity crisis + Mimic of the current healers but is weaker in healing all together sooo i have been for the last few days comparing each healer and i think i found the issue and also a fix to make AST
ALL CHANGES BELOW IS TO MAKE A TRINITY BETWEEN THE 3 HEALERS SO ALL HEALERS HAVE A WEAKNESS WHICH OTHER HEALERS CAN MAKE UP FOR
WHM
Currently WHM is a beast in terms of healing they have soo many cooldowns which all provide them healing boosts to there heals so i think its about time to change that so i propose this to change them
= Remove there HOTS
= Remove there mitigation (eye for eye and virus)
doing this will turn WHM into a pure healing job with RAW numbers in both healing and DPS
SCH
Currently SCH is the best healer in terms of mitigating damage and having there pets provide buffs + off heal when needed so i would like to list changes to them
=Remove HoT on EoS
=Rework all there cooldowns to only effect mitigation(shields) only
=Remove Any buffs and debuffs a SCH can provide (Example Virus/ Eye for Eye)
This would turn SCH into a PURE mitigation healer (shields) which focus on mitigating the group damage received whilst providing Damage over time spells to help with DPS and do support healing with pet
AST
Currently AST main tool kit is the cards and is currently mimics over the other 2 healers currently so here is a change to allow them to be there own healer and not have an identity crisis
= Change Healing spells to only do Healing over time effects
= Change Cards to provide Powerful Buffs to group and keep the system fast and fluid
= Change DoTs to provide Debuffs that mitigate boss damage output so that the healing is smooth and steady
= Remove Sects
This will Change AST to be a Enchantress job that supports healing with HoTs and provide Buffs/Debuffs to help with mitigation unlike SCH with shields we do our mitigation Through debuffing the target or buffing players
With all these changes done to these healers we can now have a full trinity between the 3 healers to support each other weaknesses and i will show u why
WHM / SCH
The goal with this combo is to allow the SCH to mitigate(Shields) damage and provide support healing (pet) whilst the WHM provide powerful healing and allowing both provide DPS when needed
WHM / AST
The goal with this combo is to allow the AST to mitigate(Buff/Debuff) damage and provide support healing (HoTs) whilst the WHM provide powerful healing and allowing both to provide dps when needed
SCH / AST
The goal with this combo is to Stack as much mitigation(Shield/Buffs/ Debuffs) Whilst providing steady healing to group through (Pet/ Hots) and allowing both to provide dps when needed
so now the trinity healers are
WHM = Raw healing power and provide dps
SCH = Mitigation with shields and support healing with pet
AST = Mitigation with buffs/debuffs and support healing with HoTs
so now they all have weaknesses and strengths Whilst WHM can provide powerful healing it lacks mitigation skills to help with the incoming damage but make up for it for its raw healing power...... Whilst both AST/SCH provide powerful mitigation but lacks Strong healing but make up for it with it supporting healing with Pet + Hots
this is how i see it anyway and would like it to be changed too but people will most likely complain and flame at the idea of it all :(
Fix to AST the real reason
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08-10-2015, 10:47 AMYhisaFix to AST the real reason
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08-10-2015, 10:52 AMWingsOfAzrael
all i can say is: wtf are these nerfs? no just no, stop trolling
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08-10-2015, 10:52 AMAnubis_Nephthys
6/10 troll.
Could have been more though out though.
Good idea with the poor grammar, gave it a touch of believability.
Overall, it made me chuckle a little. -
08-10-2015, 10:55 AMVlady
Yshira if you are having difficulty with the astrologian you can always swap to the white mage and scholar since you seem to enjoy them more so? Calling for two entire jobs to be reworked is something that will never happen. Astrologian needs some changes on the cooldown front but nerfing the other two jobs will never happen.
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08-10-2015, 11:00 AMMimilu
Nefring two good jobs because one is having problems is a horrible fix for everyone involved.
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08-10-2015, 11:00 AMYhisa
wait what are u people blind or somethink.............. Name me 10 reasons why u should take an AST over a WHM/SCH combo.......... because AST do not bring anythink to the table that the other healers can do already...... Once u can list me 10 reason to why u should take and AST/WHM or AST/SCH over a WHM/SCH.... until u can give me 10 reasons u all just Flaming for nothing.......... because WHM/SCH are far far far to strong together and with there current skills kicks any new healer to the side because they can do EVERYTHING
UNTIL U CAN GIVE ME 10 REASONS to why u should take an AST over current healers im not going to reply to u -
08-10-2015, 11:02 AMechoica
I starting reading and saw the comments to nerf the other healers and I stopped right there. NO. LOL
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08-10-2015, 11:04 AMMuahbec
I agree with you a tiny bit though.
AST could be a HoT specialized healer just like SCH is a shield specialized healer.
That would fit the "Time mage" theme really well.
But, messing with the other two jobs is completely unnecessary. -
08-10-2015, 11:07 AMYhisaQuote:
Originally Posted by echoica
its not nerfing the healers...... its making them balance so u can mix and match them to any combo..... currently WHM/ SCH got everything when they only ment to be RAW HEALING (WHM) MITIGATION / SUPPORT (SCH)...... but nope they both way to strong especially when put together... which leave any new healers SE makes worthless and redundant due to how powerful WHM/SCH are together.... they have 0 weakness when Solo or Together -
08-10-2015, 11:19 AMVlady
Well heck why we are at it give me 10 reasons why they should take a dark knight over a Astrologian? The logic you are presenting is the same as that absurd question I just asked. You tell everyone for last week that they must suck if they cannot do such and such as an astrologian then now you are wanting SE to nerf two jobs because you had a whim?
You do not have to respond to me I do not mind.
But I will bite.
1. Astrologian is the only healer that provides tp regenerating abilities for all jobs.
2. Astrologian can provide mana free buffs that enhance dps.
3. Astrologian is the only job that can reduce all cooldowns by 20%. Once more requires coordination with team.
4. Astrologian can provide defensive card buffs on top of tanks normal defensive buffs.
5. Astrologian can provide a flexible job that performs both jobs without having to wait for esoteric for white mage or scholar.
6. Astrologian can provide a significant burst via balance once you learn to communicate with your dps compatriots. I have already given an example but flame on if someone wants to open that can again. An astro can provide around 500-600 ish personal dps going all out along with the strong buffs which enhances group dps as well. I have yet to see people post dps parses between an enhanced astrologian group and non enhanced so until proven wrong it is a valid statement that rivals Scholars.
7. We can provide strong triage healing while being mobile which is for alot of the fight which people seem to never even mention. Lightspeed+noc shield is capable of provide a upfronted 6-7k burst heal +shield without having to stop. GCD can be a bitch I will admit.
8. Is disable a reason ;o ?? Not sure what all it works on?
9. Because some people are good at the job and might like it over white mage and scholar. To try to discourage them and or force them to change is pretty elitist. And people flame me stating I should be black listed from all statics and groups?
10. I did not call for white mage and scholar to be nerfed. Just because you cannot make it as an astrologian does not mean you should ask for white/scholar nerfs out of spite. -
08-10-2015, 11:19 AMYhisa
currently this is how strong the other healers are together...... and this is just wtf
SCH / WHM combo
Presence of Mind ( Haste)
Divine Seal (Healing buff)
Benediction (emergancy heal)
Asylum (Healing cooldown)
Assize (Healing cooldown )
Tetragrammaton (Emergancy heal)
Virus (Debuff)
Eye for an Eye (Buff)
Medica II (Hot)
Regen (hot)
Adloquium (Shield)
Succor (Shield)
Sacred Soil (Buff)
Lustrate (emergancy heal)
Indomitability (Healing cooldown)
Deployment Tactics (Healing cooldown shields)
Emergency Tactics (Healing cooldown)
Dissipation (Healing cooldown)
Whispering Dawn (hot)
Fey Covenant (buff)
Fey Illumination (healing cooldown)
Fey Caress (healing cooldown)
Fey Wind (Buff)
AST/WHM combo
Presence of Mind ( Haste)
Divine Seal (Healing buff)
Benediction (emergancy heal)
Asylum (Healing cooldown)
Assize (Healing cooldown )
Tetragrammaton (Emergancy heal)
Virus (Debuff)
Eye for an Eye (Buff)
Medica II (Hot)
Regen (hot)
Lightspeed (mobility buff)
Essential Dignity (Emergancy cooldown)
Aspected Benefic (hot/shield)
Aspected Helios (hot/sheil)
Synastry (Healing cooldown)
Collective Unconscious (Hot/buff)
Cards (Buffs)
SCH/ AST combo
Virus (Debuff)
Eye for an Eye (Buff)
Medica II (Hot)
Regen (hot)
Adloquium (Shield)
Succor (Shield)
Sacred Soil (Buff)
Lustrate (emergancy heal)
Indomitability (Healing cooldown)
Deployment Tactics (Healing cooldown shields)
Emergency Tactics (Healing cooldown)
Dissipation (Healing cooldown)
Whispering Dawn (hot)
Fey Covenant (buff)
Fey Illumination (healing cooldown)
Fey Caress (healing cooldown)
Fey Wind (Buff)
Lightspeed (mobility buff)
Essential Dignity (Emergancy cooldown)
Aspected Benefic (hot/shield)
Aspected Helios (hot/sheil)
Synastry (Healing cooldown)
Collective Unconscious (Hot/buff)
Cards (Buffs)
Loook at the difference..... ITS far to large.... whilst WHM/SCH are perfect in every way... why on earth would u need a brand new healer when the 2 current healers have EVERYTHING -
08-10-2015, 11:19 AMckc22
Haha typical astrologian "Just nerf whm and sch into the ground while buffing us."
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08-10-2015, 11:22 AMVladyLol? I dont think I have ever heard ANY other astrologian call for white mage or scholar nerfs.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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08-10-2015, 11:22 AMYhisaERRM u lost u way soo bad those are not 10 reasons u started to talk out of ur ass pass 4Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlady
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08-10-2015, 11:23 AMMuahbecThis is the first "nerf whm and sch" type of thread.......Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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08-10-2015, 11:24 AMVladyI am getting the feeling you had something bad happen to you and just wanting to melt down on the forums. So that should automatically be another +4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
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08-10-2015, 11:25 AMckc22Quote:
Originally Posted by Muahbec
There are plenty of posts strewn about this forum asking for buffs that are so strong that they basically give astros abilities that purely outclass the ones they stole from or for nerfs to the other classes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlady
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08-10-2015, 11:29 AMMuahbecHave you seen these forums lately? People are asking for originality, they don't want AST to be a copy-paste type of healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
these " buff us to the skies" type of threads have ended a long while ago.
I hope that now you will stop bashing AST players only because you want your SCH to be secure.
And if you're going to blame someone for the job, blame the dev team who decided to turn them into hybrids, don't throw your hate on AST players who wants their job to be fun, powerful, and unique. -
08-10-2015, 11:29 AMAnubis_Nephthys
This guy is putting a lot of effort into his little troll here.
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08-10-2015, 11:30 AMVladyWhat does that have to do with your statement of another astrologian asking for white mage/scholar nerfs? This is the first one ive seen in weeks. And I agree the absurdity of buffs alot of people are asking for for astrologians is not going to happen. At most we will get cooldown tweaks and I hope a opening for stance dancing in combat...Quote:
Originally Posted by ckc22
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08-10-2015, 11:35 AMYhisa
i like it how everyone think im trolling when im not....this is dead serious ... and people are like OMG dont nerf my WHM/SCH which is expected... because these players have it too good..... why u think alot of AST have turned back to WHM /SCH..... its because they are better in every way because they are too strong currently........ all im doing its reworkin all healers to all be strong at what they do and have weaknesses... currently AST have healing weakness plus our cards dont offer much plus we lack cooldowns..... meanwhile WHM and SCH got everythink and 0 weaknesses
SCH and WHM are that strong... that they currently can do DPS in savage whilst being UNDERGEARED for the content..... meanwhile AST is being carried by a WHM/SCH
whilst AST majority of the time is always healing to bring players up and litterally have no time to breath... just look @ all the savage videos..... both whm and sch is dps alot and just topping people up with ease...... AST can deal dps for the start but after it spending all its time on healing...... dont believe me check out all the Savage videos..... -
08-10-2015, 11:49 AMMuahbecYhisa, please, i understand what you're trying to say and what you're suggesting, but removing WHM's regens and changing SCH would not just be a "balancing" problem, most of the players already have macros made, most of them dedicated a lot of their time to learn their job, most of them (if not all of them) loves their job exactly the way they are, and what you're suggesting is to almost completelly change the jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
That will not solve the problem.
AST needs to be unique, a buffer (and maybe a debuffer also), for that SE must get rid of this whole "RGN" theme and add an actual "time buffer mage" theme and in my opinion, sects must be completely reworked so AST won't be a WHM/SCH copycat.
SE can make AST unique, i know they can. (Have you even seen Geomancer from FFXI? Turning AST into a buffer just like that would be AMAZING) -
08-10-2015, 11:56 AMYhisai just want to be used ... currently on my server in PF they only asking for WHM/SCH....there is an odd few who accept AST but majority locks us out... currently i have to ask my FC to run content with me due to how people are in PF.... and i agree with u fully this is what i wantQuote:
Originally Posted by Muahbec
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08-10-2015, 12:09 PMDrtoxicmedica
Tbh having a whm and sch is really only that much easier when learning a fight our your group constantly screws up and requires extra heals. 95% of the fights in this mmo are scripted boss rotations. The people picked to take damage may change but the damage will always be the same.you can solo heal most fights in the game with a good party, gl with a bad one that's goes for any healing class. Take a whm scholar while you learn take ast once you get it down if you really want one. Wait for them to make adjustments and calm down. 2.0 warrior was 'fixed' to what people wanted it to be. ast will be as well post your concerns and quit acting like the job is incapable of content. Whm/sch don't need to be adjusted ast just needs a few things tweaked to make it more plausible for progression.
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08-10-2015, 12:10 PMMuahbecI totally feel your pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
In my server they won't lock us out but after one run they ask us to change to SCH or WHM which is really REALLY sad because i really love this job.
Sadly though, all we gotta do now is to wait for SE's move and hope that the next changes will bring some uniqueness to AST. -
08-10-2015, 12:12 PMYhisaHmm i didnt say ast cannot complete content HOWEVER.... i have no seen an AST past AS3 or a AST/AST healing comboQuote:
Originally Posted by Drtoxicmedica
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08-10-2015, 12:15 PMYhisaYeah its quite bad currently.... my fc is trying to get me to play whm or sch but im refusing to change because i do no like them (use to be sch healer before).... and this is the problem why am i force to play another healer when i currently want to play as ASTQuote:
Originally Posted by Muahbec
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08-10-2015, 12:16 PMGaldousI do feel sorry for you. We use an astrologian in our savage team and we have no qualms so far with the astro's healing so do not lose hope ;(.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
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08-10-2015, 12:17 PMGideonHighmournJust curious ... Pretty sure we all know the answer to this particular question already, but is the AST in your static Vladmiere Raijin (AKA Vlady)?Quote:
I do feel sorry for you. We use an astrologian in our savage team and we have no qualms so far with the astro's healing so do not lose hope ;(.
Also find it rather hilarious that you claim to be in a savage team, while only having one piece of Alexander normal gear and still wearing iLvl 170 Law armor. I'm guessing that you still haven't beaten A1S, yet, amirite? -
08-10-2015, 01:33 PMDrtoxicmedicaWhich is why I said they need some improvement to be viable for progression must have missed that part :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Yhisa
And my point was the other healers don't need to be completely altered. Ast Needs to be buffed not omg crazy amounts but buffed none the less. Primarily through there cards. Imo there intended design was to be a buffing class with the ability to heal but not as well as the other 2. However the cards don't justify the extra healing the other healer has to do which is where the problem is. And why it's not looked at for progression. The people keeping it out of parties are just stupid it's good enough to clear stuff. Have had double astros heal ravana ex just fine. -
08-10-2015, 01:56 PMGaldousI am curious how having a few 170 pieces of gear is hilarious about my spot as a bard in a static team? Are you also going to bash my team because we use a dark knight as one of our tanks over a warrior?Quote:
Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn
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08-10-2015, 04:31 PMAkyio
The fact is, is that if we had from 2.0 and so on an only healer - AST, and now in heavensward SCH and WHM were added.. People would be calling SCH and WHM overpowered. Because they are overpowered compared to AST, and actually quite ridiculously overpowered.. Like fey wind is a better and more reliable DPS boost for a team than arrow or balance, and those take ridiculous time of shuffling and drawing to prepare for.
Not calling for nerfs of course, just sch and whm are superior to ast. -
08-11-2015, 12:20 AMLastelliIt's hilarious because it's too low. Alex Savage was designed with ilvl200 in mind and the best teams in the world could clear the first two turns with ilvl185-190 thanks to healers' dps, potions, optimal party composition and a lot of skill. So either you have no idea how this game works or your static is very casual and you like to take your time, which is fine...or you're just a very poor troll.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdous
Pretty much this.Quote:
People would be calling SCH and WHM overpowered. Because they are overpowered compared to AST, and actually quite ridiculously overpowered
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08-11-2015, 01:27 AMNorthernLadMSPI'm glad you said something, because I've been thinking it for a long while. It's obvious he doesn't even run Alex normal as he has one item (from all the weeks it's been available), but then claims they're in a Savage team?Quote:
Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn
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08-11-2015, 02:23 AMSirShuffles
I thought OP was trollin in pretty well by themselves, but then the Vlady Brigade shows up and shows us all what real trolls are made of.
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08-11-2015, 02:28 AMLeiloniIt's not just that it's low, it's that it's absurdly easy to get better gear. My AST is at 186 and I play the game somewhat casually, just focusing on capping ESO and Alex Normal drops every week via DF groups which only takes two nights of grinding really. Law is given out like candy now and you can also use it to upgrade your 170 to 180, while getting Alex drops to supplement and getting your ESO pieces. I already have a 180 weapon saved up for my WHM that isn't even 60 yet. And this is just me playing my AST a couple days a week, haven't even bothered doing the Ex primals yet, while I slowly play my WHM the other days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdous
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08-11-2015, 02:55 AMGaldousI guess I just perform well for my item level. My static team probably has not even looked at my item level. Lol. My leader actually just said it is low for a savage team but oh well what can I say?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leiloni
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08-11-2015, 03:02 AMSirShufflesThat is such a Vlady/Galdous thing to say LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galdous
"I'm so talented people don't even look at my ilvls the second I enter the raid. I should know I learned how to raid from Vlady. He solos Alexander and T13 as an AST all the time cause they're just that good of a class." -
08-11-2015, 03:07 AMGaldousSuch a Vladygald thing to say. I must say I am honored if you think that highly of me but I would not go and jump the gun. I asked what does my item level have to do with my being a part of a static team and if people here consider me below what is considered ideal to start Savage raiding my static has yet to say a word so they must feel I am a good addition. Shrug.Quote:
Originally Posted by SirShuffles
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08-11-2015, 07:07 AMMaltothoris
Okay then, lets say you're determined to see this through Yshia. Then what would you suggest to replace regen and medica for the whm since those are the two u are talking about and what to replace virus, eye for an eye, and whispering dawn for the scholar? You can't just remove spells and abilities without offering something in compensation for it. Take the protect and stoneskin traits that happened for the whm. The protect trait got replaced with enhanced medica and graniteskin with quick stoneskin. See, the loss traits were replaced with something else.
Again, I'm not trying to say that astro shouldn't be buffed because it should. It needs to be stronger in its own way but not at the expanse of the other two classes.