Astro healing: What to expect?

So I've been playing Warrior for a good long while now. It's comfortable to me. I know how to use what it's got to offer and I can react as well as I plan. I tank for the FC, the DF, I know what I'm doin'.

The only thing that's started to become a hiccup for me is the Astrologian style of healing. With a White Mage I'm never dropping below 50%. With a Scholar I might get to 30% but it's a slow fall and I know the Lustrates are coming- that's the kinda rhythm you learn after a while. But with Astro, the lower I am, the better Essential Dignity is. I can understand that! ... What I can't do is suppress the urge to Holmgang when I'm dropping to 1-2K in level 60 content. So help me out, Astros: what's your rhythm? Do you like to start a fight by getting that ED heal in? Is it post-card-draw? Is there a tell? Or am I just gonna have to fall backward and hope you catch me?

Appreciate any input!

All you can do ist trust your healer(no matter the class). But an AST should never wait for the tank or player to drop to dangerous levels just to get the maximum out of ED.
On a personal note depends (on the encounter though) but most of the time ED is used after "unexpected" dmg or hard hitting abilties and the tank dropped to an hp amount I am not comfortable with waiting for benefic II. I pretty much use it like lustrates on SCH except that I can only use it once every 40 seconds.

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In the end even though I always joke in dungeons when tanks pop "HG / Holm / LD" and "complain" about them having no trust at all, still follow your own instinct. If you think you need to pop Holmgang, use it. Unless its inside raid content where you actually want to save those cooldowns for certain mechanics etc.

personally I prefer if tanks kinda ignore their HP pools and just focus on emnity and rotating CDs.

When I heal I dps alot, so you HP pool will drop at times but I wont ever let you die.

AST healing style is more similar to WHM.

I think it really depends on the content and the healer, but there are some differences and that's going to change things.


An AST only has 4 direct single target heals: Benefic (basically Cure/Physik), Benefic II (basically Cure II), Aspected Benefic (either a slightly weaker regen with a burst heal up front, or a slightly weaker instant cast Adloquim), and Essential Dignity. I would imagine most ASTs are going to rely primarily on Benefic to keep the tank in good shape, Benefic 2 is the tank dips. A key difference from WHM, is WHM is going to fire off Cure 2 sometimes when it's not needed because they have Freecure and their Cure 2 will be free. ASTs on the other hand proc an instant cast Benefic 2, so if there is a need for Benefic II, it might come quickly. After that though the AST is GDC locked, so if the situation is dire, that's where Essential Dignity will come in. If Essential Dignity is down and the damage is intense, the AST can really only resort of Benefic II spam and hope that it's enough. Once Essential Dignity is burned, Benefic II spam is an AST's highest healing output strategy on a single target. AST doesn't have access to Eye for an Eye or Virus. On the other side, they might get a bole card (10% damage down) or an Arrow card (10% speed up). Bole can be extended on the tank to make it last longer using Time Dilation or Celestial Opposition, only Celestial Opposition can be used to extend an arrow card on the AST itself.

To more directly answer your question:

In my opinion, being healed by an AST should feel a lot like being healed by a WHM during steady incoming damage, with the AST keeping you topped off using Benefic and Benefic II. The difference will come during spike damage. If damage spikes, the AST might use their Benefic II proc to get some quick HP or Essential Dignity. But AST is a bit of a one trick pony; if you see Essential Dignity go off and the damage is still spiking, the AST basically has... no more cards up its sleeve. No guarantee that they've drawn a card that can help the situation, so you should probably help with a cool down. Something like Convalescence if it's only a little spiky or Vengeance if the spike damage is severe. All you have to do is make it 40 seconds to the next Essential Dignity. If you learn what icons to look for, you can see if your AST has a Bole or an Arrow to help the situation. Bole is green and Arrow is pale blue (there's an electric blue and a dark blue icon as well, so don't get confused!)

Hope that provides a little insight.

As AST, I'm still in a point where I'm not comfortable to heal and DPS, even at lower levels. So I'm usually a full healer for the fight, maybe casting a Dot on a boss. I use Asp.Benefic early on and I use Essential Dignity as if it was 400pot, I use it to save mp when a Benefic II would apply. In that case, with me, you shouldn't drop to low levels of HP unless I'm lagging, or you've done a pull too big, or I'm not familiarized with the content.

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

personally I prefer if tanks kinda ignore their HP pools and just focus on emnity and rotating CDs.

When I heal I dps alot, so you HP pool will drop at times but I wont ever let you die.

AST healing style is more similar to WHM.

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That's it.
Use your defensive Cds as soons as you get more than 2 ennemies, it will allow us, Astro, to dps and don't be afraid of your hp pool. It's under control.

https://img.pandawhale.com/post-4061...re-no-2dLR.gif

The healing style seems similar to that of a WHM, but it's not that similar. WHM is more like a reactive healer, waiting for incoming damage to heal, but AST needs to be more proactive. That's because WHM has Regen, which can keep things going at about the same rate as a fairy, but AST doesn't have anything that works like that. There is, of course, a skills that resembles Regen (Aspected Benefic), but works in a very different way: it's a burst heal that leaves a 100 potency regen, which is not enough to keep you alive while the AST waits for things. I mainly use Aspected Benefic when I want an instant heal and a GCD lock to use my card commands. Saying that, ASTs have less room to DPS than the other healers, and that's basically their weak spot; their strength lies in the utility they provide with their cards. That can't be felt a lot in 4-person content, because combat goes faster. This means that ASTs can't afford, at least at low ilvl, to wait for the HP pools do drop under 60% to start healing; they need to be more proactive. So, if you see your HP dropping to 1-2K, don't be afraid to pop your Holmgang; it means the AST is not in control of his game or is depending too much on Essential Dignity.

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Originally Posted by Miiu

On a personal note depends (on the encounter though) but most of the time ED is used after "unexpected" dmg or hard hitting abilties and the tank dropped to an hp amount I am not comfortable with waiting for benefic II. I pretty much use it like lustrates on SCH except that I can only use it once every 40 seconds.

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This is how I use it as well. You should never let your tank's HP intentionally get low. It's there for emergencies and heavy healing situations. If an AST is slacking on heals and letting the tank get low because they're trying to dps, then they're either lazy or just poor at managing everything. You need to be able to keep the tank at safe levels while dpsing so that will require a bit of stance dancing to continually throw him a heal or two, maybe refreshing Aspected Benefic, before going back to dps.

The only healer that can get away with staying in Cleric for long periods is SCH because they have the fairy, but even then if more damage is going out, they may find themselves popping out for an Adlo or something. So it's really not just an AST thing. Any healer that is letting you get that low is not playing correctly.

I've seen the excuse that they want to optimize their class by outputting dps but the reality is if you want to get the most out of your class you need to do both well - healing and damage. That requires more effort on any healer, but letting the tank get low is just a bad (and as you can see from the OP's concerns, also inconsiderate) idea no matter how you swing it.

ED is there for unintended situations and it's great for that. As Miiu mentioned, it can be compared to a Lustrate or a Tetra.

We don't "try" to dps. We do it
And we don't "slack" our heal. We control it.

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Any healer that is letting you get that low is not playing correctly.

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I've seen the excuse that they want to optimize their class by outputting dps but the reality is if you want to get the most out of your class you need to do both well - healing and damage. That requires more effort on any healer, but letting the tank get low is just a bad (and as you can see from the OP's concerns, also inconsiderate) idea no matter how you swing it.

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Oh MY GOD !!! http://www.gifbin.com/bin/g66064g6576.gif Just ! http://media.giphy.com/media/R6huQoLNxqL5K/giphy.gif

http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads...GIF_2.gif?gs=a

OOOH MY GOD
https://33.media.tumblr.com/47eb1fec...t01v4j_500.gif

You mean that all those monsters we killed.... they doesn't count since my team wasn't completely healed at the end ?!!!
Noooooo ! I've to do all the content agaiiiiiiiin !

Im one of those people that sometimes does.. let the tank go really low. but i havent had any tank die on me in dungeons in the last 2-3 weeks(on ast).
sometimes i want maybe to throw one more gravity on mobs, and tank is getting really low.. then i want to throw one more gravity and i think whatever, i still have ED. then i just use it whoops tank is back up at 40%.
Though i usually switch out of cleric stance when tank is 40-50% health.

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Originally Posted by Mclyde

We don't "try" to dps. We do it
And we don't "slack" our heal. We control it.

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Okay relax bro. There's no need to be so obnoxious. What are you, like i170? That mad deeps.

3-4 Gravities on a pack of mobs while letting the tank get low to then pop out of cleric stance and Essential Dignity and then heal them to full is pretty optimal AST dungeon play. Before you stop dps'ing the AST has often outputted more dmg on the pack than some of the dps. It's not an insignificant amount.

Personally i launch all my dot on one mob + 1 gravity on the group and then toggle off the cleric stance to full heal the tank put him hot or shield and go back to dps. It doesn't consume too much of my mp and still bring a good help in dps.
In a team of aoe damage dealers i'll spam gravity near the end of the fight too. I know that when the fight will be over the life of my teamates will fastly recover by itself. No need to waste mp in unnecessary heals when you can use it for more damages.

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

personally I prefer if tanks kinda ignore their HP pools and just focus on emnity and rotating CDs.

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Except for the part where a number of those cooldowns make them take less damage as well as heal up damage so that HP you want them to ignore doesn't go down as much. Tanks need to watch their HP as much as we do. Keeping tanks alive is a job we do together with them, not by ourselves.

I usually start a pull with Lightspeed > Aspected Helios > Aspected Benefic > Benefic II before launching into DPS, so the tank's HP doesn't fall quite as dramatically while I get into DPS. If I've got an Enhanced Benefic II proc (you can see the proc if you're watching my statuses) I can comfortably let the tank dip pretty low knowing that an Essential Dignity > Bene II will put a significant chunk back in the tank's HP. However, not everyone's going to play the same way. ED can function as both a maintenance heal and an emergency heal, and people will use it differently. You just have to trust your healer and hope they don't forget about you. If you feel like you're going to bite the dust, no one will complain that you pop an emergency CD, and if your healer really has it under control, they can use that window to squeeze in another GCD or two of DPS before taking care of you.

If I'm new to the dungeon or if the tank is inexperienced/undergeared/whatever, I save ED for emergencies in case something goes downhill, you wouldn't want to let the tank become low on HP in case the damage suddenly spikes. However, if I'm familiar with the content and the tank isn't too squishy or the enemies in question don't hit too hard, I know I can usually allow myself to DPS as much as possible, using ED at around 20-30%. It's a free heal every 40 seconds with high possible potency, it's a waste to not take advantage of that if you know you can do it safely.

What I expect? (In this case: PvP/Frontline)

I thought AST's Noct gonna stack with SCH's galvanize. But you know what? When they cast Aspected Helios, It just erase mah glorious Critical Adlo! But when AST goes to Diurnal, they stack with WHM's Medica 2. This is kind of joke for SCH/AST pair right?

At least make Noct stack with galvanize please~