Esoteric Weapons

Is there some lore behind the Esoteric weapons? They're the only weapons to be Job specific (other than DRK/SCH/AST/MCH) since the Relic quest-line; are they special in some way or is there a reason Classes cannot equip them?

Thanks! :D

I doubt it. The fact that AF2 and these came out with no lore at all makes me..really sad. Especially for DRK.

Very disappointing indeed! :(

Ihh, not that we know of.

Yet.

... but seriously, all we have is that they're antiques.

yeah the fact that we have no lore for the Esoteric weapons/AF2 is kinda disappointing. This also makes me wonder if the Eso weapons are supposed to 'match' our AF2, or will the new relics compliment the sets, like in 2.x

Well personally, I'm kinda disapointed and how... Un-Epic the Esoteric Gear is. The Gae Bolg was cooler than the Esoteric Spear and the Longenous even cooler. So I'm really hopeing the Neo-Relic will be more epic. Would even apreciate some cooler armor in 3.1 as well.

I personally am incredibly happy with the Esoterics gear. The Summoner stuff looks like flowing oracle robes and I love it. The book is ok, I suppose, but knowing lore for it would be nice.

Some people are speculating that they'll be the starting point for the new relics.

There was also someone that said Brionac's on Haldrath's coffin, flanked by two Gae Bolgs, but I haven't checked if that's true. Would give the theory some credence.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

Some people are speculating that they'll be the starting point for the new relics.

There was also someone that said Brionac's on Haldrath's coffin, flanked by two Gae Bolgs, but I haven't checked if that's true. Would give the theory some credence.

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its actually one gae bolg in the middle and one brionac in each side. (not sute if this helps somehow thou)

No clue about the Scholar weapon and armor, though I'd wager a guess and say the steampunk look is Nymian high fashion >_>

A little bit of Lore about the esoteric gear/weapon would be much appreciated.
But design wise, the WHM staff is incredible ! (omg ! harpy boobs on it !! ;p)

This what I think of it.
As everybody knows the AF are relics, ancient tradicional gears/weapons, used by generations. Also withouth changing the actual gear. The AF Dragoon is a good expample, 1000 years ans still the same gear and weapon. White Mages/ Black Mages too, etc

This is just a theory, but I would think that the AF2 is what a modern day Dragoon, Paladin, White/Black Mage would use. I mean after thousand of years later, with modern crafts, what would be the way to make better and much advanced AF gear? That is the AF2

I actually think some of the AF2s are each from different cultures, especially the Paladin and White Mage sets. PLD and WHM look like they're from Zenith, with similar iconography and styles. the SMN set looks like it's probably later in Allagan history than the first AF. SCH may very well be a fashion design from earlier in Nymian history, as Surito Carito is still wearing the AF1, which would have been contemporary for his time. AST set is clearly still in use, and so is DRK and MCH, so nothing much there. DRG could very well be a new invention to assist in dragon hunting. MNK seems to appear even more Eastern than than the Near East, but not so far as Doma (not sure where it would geographically be then, since Xaela are all in what would fit that zone). NIN's probably newer or older Doman styling. WAR and BLM... are either something new, or something so old we should probably forget they existed...

SMN looks like Sharlayan mixed with Rydia and Yuna outfits.

Actually, there's a smidgen of Lore for them if you talk to Seika, aka the upgrade Au Ra in Idyllshire.

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Originally Posted by Tell me about artifact gear repair.

Seika: Lots of folk that're fond of the ancient combat arts have taken to wearing traditional equipment, right? Thing is, it's not always in the best condition. I can help with that.
Seika: The materials I'll need to do so aren't easy to come by, though, as they're all made by the Illuminati. Then again, you do seem the resourceful sort...

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It kinda ties into the old mythology job-specific gear, too.

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Originally Posted by Vintage equipment.

Rowena: In recent years, folk've begun takin' a renewed interest in antiquity.
Rowena: In the case o' the adventurin' crowd, this interest takes the form of ancient combat arts along with the equipment used in 'em.
Rowena: To cater to the demand for the latter, I've engaged master artisans to recreate vintage armor usin' modern-day techniques. If you fancy such gear, you can get 'em right here at the House of Splendors.

Eginolf: Vintage equipment's fallen out of favor of late. Though we still deal in them, at Rowena's behest, they're now bespoke items. She won't have valuable shelf space being taken up by wares that don't sell, you see.

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Sadly I doubt we'll get anything, I'm still waiting for my lore on the Primal Focus weapons...

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Originally Posted by WyrahFhurrst

DRG could very well be a new invention to assist in dragon hunting. MNK seems to appear even more Eastern than than the Near East, but not so far as Doma (not sure where it would geographically be then, since Xaela are all in what would fit that zone). NIN's probably newer or older Doman styling. WAR and BLM... are either something new, or something so old we should probably forget they existed...

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i think drg is an older offshoot of the drachen set. a set phased out for homogeneity but was once given to distinguished dragoons. (for instance, the wind-up kain uses the dragonlancer set). monk is probably an older design, from when the fist of rhalgr was just starting out. WAR is without a doubt old, it's less armored than the af1, blm idk. Gothic lo-err-Goetia was probably all the rage when blackmages were common place :3

Wasn't Thordan the first Dragoon? He was wearing a grey or silver Drachen set in the flashback. I kinda think Estinien's blackened drachen armor is Thordan's that has just been blackened from battling dragonsn(from dragon breath scorching it, and dried blood which makes things black over time due to the iron in the blood which oxidizes). Dragonlancer is maybe a prototype which was lost/forgotten, while drachen was the more mass produced one. Drachen makes more sense from a functional standpoint however. The spines and spikes allow a dragoon, diving from the sky, to remain latched on to a flying dragon(the spikes pierce the scales) because if it was smooth armor, the dragoon would roll off the wyvern's back when it bucks. Also the dragonlancer gear appears more light and less armored, and his a superfluous tail thing which probably does nothing functionally.

I wouldn't be too surprised if the dragonslayer set's from the prior conflict between men and dragons, before Shiva and Hraesvalgr's pact.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Wasn't Thordan the first Dragoon?

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Haldrath was the first Azure Dragoon, whether he was the first Dragoon is questionable though, I suppose. Given the Thordan we see, I expect Thordan to have been more of a Paladin/Dark Knight than Dragoon, though.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

I kinda think Estinien's blackened drachen armor is Thordan's that has just been blackened from battling dragonsn(from dragon breath scorching it, and dried blood which makes things black over time due to the iron in the blood which oxidizes).

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Nope;

At the end of Heavensward we see Haldraths body, and he is still wearing the same silver Drachen set we see in the Echo flashback.

Plenty of Dragoons actually wear the Drachen armor, it doesn't actually seem to be anything special at this point. Fairly sure a NPC in the Heavensward Dragoon quests is wearing it, and there are a few FATEs in Western Coerthas Highlands that have a Dragoon wearing the set IIRC.

Estinien and every generic dragoon in the game are wearing purple drachen mail and Gae Bolg. Those seem to be the standard issue armaments for Ishgardian dragoons.

Now, if it's an actual story on your weapon and armor you're looking for, your best bet is your own imagination, 'cause I doub't we'll be seeing the likes of that until the new relics arrive.

However, it's apparent that these armors and weapons are based off of the ancient garb worn by those who specilized in the given art. Though, of course, like with all of Rowena's products, what we recieve are recreations (of the highest quality, mind you). But, with a decent undersanding of the job's origin, one can easily enough fit the original set into the time period it belongs. It seems Daralii is already following this train of thought.

I think I hear a moose inbound, though, so I'll stop myself here. No doub't he'll make figuring all this out easier for us.

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Originally Posted by treuhavik

I think I hear a moose inbound, though, so I'll stop myself here. No doub't he'll make figuring all this out easier for us.

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Or I'll just bring up things that are correct but off the correct trail and we'll get distracted from a larger truth, again. It's really a coin-toss with me.

I was going to post this when the thread first came up but I got distracted and forgot about it until Reinhart and Saber said pretty much exactly what I was going to bring up in the first place (quality observations, everyone). You can figure out a lot based on the fact that these pieces aren't based on a weapon discipline or a combat style, they're based on jobs. Jobs exist in specific places at specific times, and those have already been revealed by the original storylines and artifact pieces.

The first generation of Ul'dah didn't invent swords, but they invented Paladins; gear only equipped by Paladins therefore likely has a connection to the Sultansworn in the last six centuries. Ishgard didn't invent spears, but they invented Dragoons, gear only equipped by Dragoons therefore likely has some connection to the Dragonsong War in the last millennium. Etc. etc. etc.

Imho, last few posts in this thread seem to be on the right track. My theory is in the same vein as Saber's assessment that most of the sets might just be reaching further back in time. The PLD AF1 is still used today by a very old tradition - AF2 may just be an older set in that tradition. The exceptions are the new jobs, I'm guessing, for which this is the first AF and they seem more or less contemporary.

To start, I'd go with what we know and see if anything doesn't mesh. Most of it should. (The SCH body even has books that say NYMIAN STRATEGEMS all over it.)

Here's a chart of Job, New Gear Name, Job Origin, and Base New Gear Origin Theory
I haven't done all of the new stories - if you see something that's been proven right or wrong somewhere, bring it up and I'll strike it from the list.

• PLD - Creed
  • Sultansworn of Ul'dah (~600 Years)
  • Set may be a uniform that preceded the current one, which is the AF1
• WAR - Ravager
  • Hellsguard clan from the Farreach (Time unknown; Still exists in decline)
  • Set is very similar to the AF1, may be from before the clan was shunned.
• MNK - Tantra
  • Fist of Rhalgr of Ala Mhigo ("Several Centuries Ago" through 1552-6A)
  • AF1 seems to be related to the late temple, this outfit may have predated it in the Sect of Light.
• DRG - Dragonlancer
  • Ishgard (1,000 Years Past-ish)
  • I like the theory that the set is from the pre-Shiva conflict, seeing as Thordan was seen in an echo wearing traditional Drachen right at the outset.
• NIN - Iga
  • Arts brought to Doma from a nearby island in the Far East (Honed "for centuries)
  • AF1 set is seen on Yugiri's Shinibi, this set likely simply predates it.
• BRD - Aoidos
  • Gods' Quiver of Gridania (500 to 100 Years Past, depending on who's telling the story)
  • New set possibly named for a specific bard's aesthetic, like Artemis
• BLM - Goetia
  • Mhach (5th Astral Era; 6th Astral was mostly just Ququruka & Co.)
  • A goetia is a book; perhaps this set was from around the time the Books of Nald and Thal were written.
• SMN - Caller
  • Allagan Empire (Third Astral Era)
  • New set is dragon themed, not as close to Bahamut-themed as AF1. Possibly an earlier incarnation.
• SCH - Savant
  • Nym (Fifth Astral Era)
  • Confirmed to be Nymian; possibly from before the militarized sets seen in the late War of the Magi.
• WHM - Orison
  • Amdapor (Fifth Astral Era; Exists in Seedseer traditon today)
  • The WHM story arc said the AF1 was from the White Mages of Old, which implies Amdapor. Orison, however, implies prayer. I'm not quite sure what to make it of.
• AST - Welkin
  • Sharlayan Astrology (Unknown)
  • Contemporary, traditional Sharlayan Astrologian attire
• MCH - Machinist's
  • Ishgard (Brand New)
  • Contemporary, soon-to-be-traditional Ishgardian Machinist's attire (assuming classical Musketeer blended with Skysteel Craftsman aesthetic)
• DRK - Chaos
  • Ishgard (New-ish?)
  • I don't know much about DRKs, but the NPC says that the first was a knight of Ishgard who embraced the Abyss after being stripped of his lands and titles by the Tribunal for killing someone who preyed on children of the Brume. All of that sounds relatively recent-ish. Contemporary Ishgardian at least. Seeing as the word Chaos is often tied directly to Darkness, it seems this is just how the knights styled themselves after embracing the Darkness.

inb4 revelation that Rowena just designed all this stuff herself and this is all an elaborate "vintage inspired" Eorzean Etsy shop
:p

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

THEORY

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Very interesting your post but I think there might be some little mistakes.

I think that some AF2 are older or newer than the AF. I agreed that MNK, NIN, WAR are obious older.

But I really think that one of this AF2 that are new are for example PLD/WAR, look their desing, how the gear was made. It implies much better craft work. When I see this gear the fiest think I see is that they really seem more advanced.
One exmply are try sure of it is the DRG AF2, I dont know why you people said it predates Shiva. Why they would use something on a time that was totally forgotten? Based on their cultural-regilion they would have nothing od those times. Also we know perfecly that the first Azure Dragoon used an AF, for me thats kind obious that the AF2 is a more earlier desing of the gear than the AF

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

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The Welkin (Astrologian) set is contemporary, as it is seen in the Astrologian questline being worn by four different individuals.

As for the rest, they seem as likely as any other. My only argument would be on the Paladin set, which to me appears to be reminiscent of Zenith's architecture, and I'd attribute that to them being from the same group.

OOOOOOOOOOOOH! Moose has a BRILLIANT point about the Drg set! It may be from a time where we wern't dragon KILLERS, but where we worked along side dragons and wanted to make ourselves look more like them! Maybe out of idolisation, or to fit in, or maybe for a unit that worked with them/along side them... Or maybe it was formal wear to talk to them or something, and quite possibly it was armor that the dragons helped empower for us as well! because we were working along side them in it!

Then the current dragoon set came along as a means to slaying them as opposed to consorting with them.

Brilliant. Makes perfect sense now! It's far older then the current Drachen Mail, and built for different purposes.

*edit*
Which would also make sense as to why it resembles the midgarsormer. Quite possibly these past "dragoons" (if we can even call them that) had formed covenants with him as well, much like we were forced into. Which altered the path of our growth in power, being why we shoot out midgarsormers with every new ability we use, and why we aren't bound to niddy anymore.

Your timelines also make some things clear about other stuff Moose. I don't know if you've done the Scholar story line, but because Nym, Amdapoor and Mchach all existed at the same time...

In the Spoiler Box will be a complete synopsis of the Scholar story

The current Scholar story line sees a flare up in Tonberrries becoming Rancorous again, with Sarito Carito wanting to seal away the worst afflicted while he looks for a cure. He and Alka Zolka talk about the origins of the Plague. Sarito always said it came from the sea, but he reveals more of that story. A group of Nymian sailors were lost at sea in a storm. Eventually they found safety on a small island where a tribe of Lalafels took them in and helped them out. When it was time of the Nymian sailors to leave, the tribe gave them a gift of an Ampule. When the sailors returned they were hale and hearty, and it wasn't until a few days later that the sickness began. Alka Zolka realizes the plague must have begun with the Ampule, as the sailors were healthy upon return. You and Alka Zolka then run off to look for the Ampule, and are attacked by imps when you discover it. Upon close inspection Sarito discovers at the bottom of the ampule is the seal of Mchach. It becomes apparent the Lalafel tribe were pawns of Mcach and had been told to give the Ampule to sailors who would land there during an unnatural storm.

To prepare for battle with the Tonberry Plague Demon, Sarito Carito has you train in the arts of the Nymian Marines, with you learning Scholar techniques, and Alka Zolka, and the 2 Roegadyns of his Marauder unit [Who I believe show up in ARC stories as Soft Marauder and Hardened Marauder] learning Nymian Marine skills (Which at the end of the story, they begin training the whole Marauder's guild in. You are then sent to Ul'Dah as Sarito Carito needs a book on demons, and Alka Zolka's suggestion that the Thaumaturge's guild would have it leads Sarito to the conclusion that Ul'Dah was the inheritor of Mchach's void magic legacy. Of note as to why the book is needed is that Nymian magic cannot track the demon, which is by Mchach design. Mchach and Nym were warring nations after all. Upon retrieving the book, Sarito learns that fairies can track the demon's energy, at which point you discover the demon intends to regain his power by feasting on the wounded soldiers being nursed at Camp Bronze Lake. From there, the demon will repeat the Nymian Plague on Limsa Lominsa. Part of the battle includes that you must constantly remove Tonberry Plague from your allies before they become Tonberries. I never let anyone become one, but I think it's a fail if anyone becomes one.

Second Hide Box adds some conclusions to draw

-The Savant's set is less an academic set, but more of one worn to battle against Mchach
-Amdapoor was likely also at war with Mchach
-If Mchach had void magic, and a mastery of demons... if they sent a Plague Demon to Nym, it is a logical conclusion they sent Diabolos to Amdapoor.
-The Lalafel Tribe that had the Ampule may have also been affected by it, thus there may be another group of Tonberries outside of Wanderer's Palace somewhere.

About Dark Knights: I'm up to 51 DRK, and what I can tell you without spoilers is that you are the 3rd Generation Dark Knight, and only the 4th one ever it seems. Fray and the Dark Knight in the Forgotten Knight are the only 2 Second Generation Dark Knights. I know nothing of the First beyond what you know, Moose.

Concerning SMN AF2, i find it more inspired by Bismarck than Bahamut (the colors and horn).

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

Concerning SMN AF2, i find it more inspired by Bismarck than Bahamut (the colors and horn).

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Uh oh, 'Nony, he's caught on to Rowena's Etsy scheme! :S
(Threre's also the WHM robe that just looks like exaggerated AF1)

I don think the af2 of thr dragoon is was made on times before the dragonsong war. I think it was was made much after that, even after the AF.
mm..I havent done the 50 - 60 drg story. but obious there is someone who uses that gear, maybe that story can gives us just a few speculations?

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

About Dark Knights: I'm up to 51 DRK, and what I can tell you without spoilers is that you are the 3rd Generation Dark Knight, and only the 4th one ever it seems. Fray and the Dark Knight in the Forgotten Knight are the only 2 Second Generation Dark Knights. I know nothing of the First beyond what you know, Moose.

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Correct; we're at least a 3rd generation dark knight. We're first "trained" by our own dark side, then Sidurgu who was trained by another dark knight.

Given that, and the fact dark knights probably have a shorter life expectancy by nature of their... line of work, I'd estimate the "antique" dark knight gear is at least 150-200 years old. That's just a guess, though, since no timeframe for when the first dark knight popped up was given.

I think we have to be the 4th. As you all remember Sidurgu told us the origin of the first Dark Knight, dunno maybe I'm wrong, but it didnt seem that his master was the first dark knight.

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Originally Posted by Lusavari

About Dark Knights: I'm up to 51 DRK, and what I can tell you without spoilers is that you are the 3rd Generation Dark Knight, and only the 4th one ever it seems. Fray and the Dark Knight in the Forgotten Knight are the only 2 Second Generation Dark Knights. I know nothing of the First beyond what you know, Moose.

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I'll debate that. We don't know who Fray and Sid's master was, and who trained him; Sid doesn't say that he was the first DRK, though, so he had a mentor in the arts. The Soulstone has the same description as all the others (sans MCH) so it implies the tradition is relatively old...however, there is an implication that there are few "real" DRK out there at once (we know of two Soulstones, your's/Fray's and Sid's. Sid may have his master's somewhere, since Reielle may want to become a DRK as well).

I had thought Sidurgu said that the first was his master, though going back and talking to him, I see he says his master was an accomplished Dark Knight.


When Asked "What is a Dark Knight?" (Level 51)

Sidurgu: If you've questions to ask, then by all means.
Sidurgu: Recall the story of the first, who was that rarest of knights─one who held his vows sacrosanct and strove ever to walk in the Fury's grace.
Sidurgu: This man good and true did what no one else had the courage to do. He passed judgment on a vile beast who had used his position in the clergy to commit unspeakable crimes.
Sidurgu: To wit, he cut down the clergyman before the eyes of gods and men, ensuring that the bastard would never harm another child of the Brume again.
Sidurgu: The Holy See could not abide such action, of course. He was detained and delivered unto the Tribunal. Though he won his freedom through trial by combat, he was later stripped of his titles and denounced for his deeds.
Sidurgu: But rather than lament his poor fortune, he embraced it. If they would condemn him as a dark knight, then he would take it as a title.
Sidurgu: He forsook the trappings of his past life, including his sigil and the shield which bore it. In its place, he came to wield something far more potent: a power born of the abyss which lies at the heart of us all.
Sidurgu: A darkness which can grant us great strength...at a price.

When Asked "Tell me about yourself."

Sidurgu: ...There is rather little to tell.
Sidurgu: My master was an accomplished dark knight who saved countless lives─including mine own.
Sidurgu: I owed him my life, and so I pledged it to his cause. I begged him to teach me the dark arts, and he agreed, making me his first pupil. Fray would become the second shortly thereafter.
Sidurgu: Heh, how different we were. I recall our master once likened me to a smoldering campfire and Fray to a frozen lake.
Sidurgu: ...We knew the risks. We swore that we would have no regrets. And I...I have none.
Sidurgu: All that remains is to finish what we started.