VERIZON FIOS CUSTOMER DEMANDING REPLY ASAP

I've been a loyal customer to SE for quite some time, and I'm on the verge of canceling my subscription to FFXIV. As much as I enjoy FFXIV, it's much more feasible for me to drop this game than switch ISPs, and especially when everything else is perfectly acceptable with Fios. The lag is so severe that playing this game at peak hours if 100% impossible, and thus it's not worth paying for. Why would we continue to pay for a game when we cannot raid, play with friends, and basically do anything? Here is the situation square enix, you have thousands of subscribers who are experiencing unsettling issues with your product, and paying you very good money each month to use it. Many of them are canceling or thinking about canceling their subscriptions. Do you have anything you wish to say to us to restore our confidence, or should we just start dropping your service like flies? Please reply, as this is important to your customers, your reputation, and your revenue.

Because threatening them is really going to work out in the end.

So your taking it out on SE? Its a Verizon issue and NOTHING really SE can do on it other then move its servers. SE could even call Verizon but it won't make a difference. Realize that gamers, streamers, and P2P people are the enemies of ISPs and they will simply say its a SE issue. However the truth is its nothing to do with FFXIV but simply how Verizon routes traffic to Montreal which effects other things as well.

So if your really going to quit FFXIV because YOUR ISP is a POS don't go blaming SE or FFXIV. Better for you to quit your ISP as well.

having same problems and am a fios customer i also cant run something like wtfast as i am a ps4 user. gonna not subscribe until i hear that this problem is fixed. would also like a reply asap.

Why should I believe the issue is completely Verizon's fault at this point, which is what I assumed at first? It's clear that, looking at the p2p throttling forum, issues are arising with many major providers, with Verizon and Time Warner being major culprits? SE clearly messed up somewhere along the way, as I have issues with NO other games. Something happened and they will not admit what it was. It's time we stop sticking up for SE.

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Originally Posted by rulebreaker51092

Why should I believe the issue is completely Verizon's fault at this point, which is what I assumed at first? It's clear that, looking at the p2p throttling forum, issues are arising with many major providers, with Verizon and Time Warner being major culprits? SE clearly messed up somewhere along the way, as I have issues with NO other games. Something happened and they will not admit what it was. It's time we stop sticking up for SE.

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Because we have seen it play out time and time again. I am also on Midgard... had the same issues about a year ago with Time Warner. I worked with Time Warner to identify the problems along my route, and they fixed them.

Not Square-Enix, and not their ISP (Ormuco). I no longer have to use a VPN. It is PURELY being managed by the ISP I pay service for (Time Warner of South Carolina).

There is plenty of precedent for this being something your ISP can manage. I went through it with this games predecessor (FFXI) as well as other games going back into the 90's--some games were from some pretty big names too, Blizzard and Microsoft. There are known and documented issues with routing in North America. Your ISP has just been playing a game of Chicken with your internet, and now they are getting caught.

That link is to a blog post about Open Internet...there are about 6 or so posts that will explain in detail what the issues have been and still continue to plague us even after the FCC ruling. Will link in the series of articles in a minute once I can round them all up.

“Chicken” | A Game Played as a Child and by some ISPs with the Internet
Observations of an Internet Middleman
When the Middleman and ISP are Aligned
Heads ISPs Win, Tails You Lose (And a way to fix it)
Verizon’s Accidental Mea Culpa
“Not” Neutrality?

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Originally Posted by Raist

Because we have seen it play out time and time again. I am also on Midgard... had the same issues about a year ago with Time Warner. I worked with Time Warner to identify the problems along my route, and they fixed them.

Not Square-Enix, and not their ISP (Ormuco). I no longer have to use a VPN. It is PURELY being managed by the ISP I pay service for (Time Warner of South Carolina).

There is plenty of precedent for this being something your ISP can manage. I went through it with this games predecessor (FFXI) as well as other games going back into the 90's--some games were from some pretty big names too, Blizzard and Microsoft. There are known and documented issues with routing in North America. Your ISP has just been playing a game of Chicken with your internet, and now they are getting caught.

That link is to a blog post about Open Internet...there are about 6 or so posts that will explain in detail what the issues have been and still continue to plague us even after the FCC ruling. Will link in the series of articles in a minute once I can round them all up.

“Chicken” | A Game Played as a Child and by some ISPs with the Internet
Observations of an Internet Middleman
When the Middleman and ISP are Aligned
Heads ISPs Win, Tails You Lose (And a way to fix it)
Verizon’s Accidental Mea Culpa
“Not” Neutrality?

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can you explain to me what you told your isp and what you did with them to fix this problem?

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Originally Posted by SyrenKhan

can you explain to me what you told your isp and what you did with them to fix this problem?

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Showed them the traces and ping reports, demonstrated the difference with a VPN (including traces/ping reports through it), and sent my modem logs as well. Need to get in touch with their Tier3 support (sometimes referred to as Engineering). They are the ones that can take such data and narrow down where issues may be occurring and then escalate the matter.

It is usually better if you are dealing with them via online communication for this too...can't really show them what is going on over the phone, and often times the best you'll accomplish is someone coming on site to look at your lines. Then you have to go through the process of showing them the problem on site--if you're lucky they'll pay attention and send it to the next tier (mileage will certainly vary on that front as well).

Go to your ISP's website, forums, social media, etc. and find a way to send them the details in writing of what you are experiencing--supply specific details and tracert/ping data if you can. It's great if you can use email, because then you have a paper trail. You'd be surprised how far playing the shame game can get you sometimes.

If you are having trouble tracking down online access, you can look to see if there is a page for your provider at either the DSL Reports Forum (they set this up for more direct access to higher level support) or something like downdetector.com and aussieoutages.com (forget the name of their european site... will see if I can find it again).

Edit: Here's the UK downdetector list: downdetector.uk There are links to other regional focuses like Canada, Germany, etc along the bottom Could have sworn they had a more entertaining name for one that covered Europe as a whole though. Will keep poking around.

Edit #2:
Oh yeah.. and you'll need valid addresses for them to run tests against. You can get the actual IP your client uses by looking in the network sections of Resource Monitor (resmon.exe from search/run box) while fully logged into the game. Alternatively you can provide the addresses of the lobby servers, as they will point them to the same networks and have them looking at the proper ASN/BGP data. Here are the current addresses embedded in the client files:

Canada/EU:
neolobby02.ffxiv.com
neolobby04.ffxiv.com
neoloccy06.ffxiv.com

Japan:
neolobby01.ffxiv.com
neolobby03.ffxiv.com
neolobby05.ffxiv.com

***note that the game communicates with both regions periodically for different purposes--mostly during login, but it can be a factor if there are issues specifically with the login or patching process (SE Account authentication and patch data/redirection to the mirror servers is managed through services in Japan, for example).

I've had an open ticket for two days and have spoken to multiple representatives, all assuring me it would be done soon, but it seems like no progress is being made. Yes, I have a few bad hops, however every other service works fine. Once I get this routing issue resolved, I'll be able to definitively point the finger at SE for this issue. If somehow Verizon fixes it, I will let you know.

Verizon has control of our market over here, they won't do anything about it. There is literally nothing that can be done if all you have is Verizon. You have no idea how frustrating it is to not be able to play this game because NOBODY will help us.

These aren't meant to be threats this is just the truth.

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Originally Posted by Mika_Stoneheart

Verizon has control of our market over here, they won't do anything about it. There is literally nothing that can be done if all you have is Verizon. You have no idea how frustrating it is to not be able to play this game because NOBODY will help us.

These aren't meant to be threats this is just the truth.

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Nobody? That's just not true. Raist is here and is one of the most prominent people trying to help. I myself have posted what works for me. I have been here for a while now and Fios has not changed and we likely won't see this change for some time. You do not have to do anything we suggest but if you want to play you have to do the leg work. I don't like that answer didn't then and damn sure don't now. But waiting for someone to do something got me no where.

I know these are player forums but if we send in tickets individually the message is lost. SE has the audacity to send me robot responses not even reading my plight. Why can't a real human being over there say 'hey we can't do anything about it' like Raist has been saying here. And furthermore, when people band together more things can be accomplished.


So in short while Raist and you mean well it's just not the answer we're looking for. Verizon won't help no matter how many countless times I try to contact them. And no, I'm not paying for a VPN just to play this game. I already paid enough to play and contact SEs stupid paid 900 number which was no help at all and cost me money to sit on hold.

Please tell me how SE bares no responsibility with this issue when they are the ONLY MMO out of dozens that this happens to. Clearly it is the way the game is set up via the servers that is the reason of this.

You honestly think that half a dozen ISPs just randomly targeted one MMO and were like "hey, this is a P2P application, lets flag it even though it isn't"?

I agree yelling at SE is not going to solve the issue.... However saying that they bare no blame for the way THEIR game is flagged on multiple ISPs is ignorance on your part. This is an issue on both sides and needs to be resolved via both sides working together to fix this problem. Since it's SEs game they need to take the initiative and get the ball rolling especially since it's multiple ISP companies.

This issue traces back to 2013 (when ARR launched) and still nothing has been done on SEs part to fix this. Or at least as far as we know. SE is notorious for not explaining jack shit that happens on forums, so they may have been in talks for all we know, but we don't because of terrible communication on their part.

I love SE as a company but please don't place the entire blame on ISPs when this is a problem that exists on both ends of the spectrum.

Thanks,
Ezenthor

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Originally Posted by Mika_Stoneheart

I know these are player forums but if we send in tickets individually the message is lost. SE has the audacity to send me robot responses not even reading my plight. Why can't a real human being over there say 'hey we can't do anything about it' like Raist has been saying here. And furthermore, when people band together more things can be accomplished.

So in short while Raist and you mean well it's just not the answer we're looking for. Verizon won't help no matter how many countless times I try to contact them. And no, I'm not paying for a VPN just to play this game. I already paid enough to play and contact SEs stupid paid 900 number which was no help at all and cost me money to sit on hold.

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You don't seem to understand. SE can NOT fix the problem unless they do what many other throttled games and sites have done which is pay a *fee* to Verizon. The FCC may have set rules but they are completely ignored by the ISPs unless you want to try and file a class action lawsuit then Verizon will keep ignoring you. SE can NOT do anything but pay extortion or move their servers *hoping* that they will get a new route automatically that won't be burdened down. However nothing is to prevent Verizon from screwing up that route as well to spike the business not paying extortion.

So please stop blaming SE. They do screw some stuff up pretty bad but in no way is this there issue and they can't fix it.

As a sidenote I have no idea what happened to it or whatever but WTFast was working on a Kickstarter campaign for a WTFast Router awhile back which would have allowed all of your devices to get WTFast performance. Maybe look into that or if there is anything else similiar to that. The Kickstarter ended awhile back and no idea if they met their goal though.

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Originally Posted by Syanis

You don't seem to understand. SE can NOT fix the problem unless they do what many other throttled games and sites have done which is pay a *fee* to Verizon. The FCC may have set rules but they are completely ignored by the ISPs unless you want to try and file a class action lawsuit then Verizon will keep ignoring you. SE can NOT do anything but pay extortion or move their servers *hoping* that they will get a new route automatically that won't be burdened down. However nothing is to prevent Verizon from screwing up that route as well to spike the business not paying extortion.

So please stop blaming SE. They do screw some stuff up pretty bad but in no way is this there issue and they can't fix it.

As a sidenote I have no idea what happened to it or whatever but WTFast was working on a Kickstarter campaign for a WTFast Router awhile back which would have allowed all of your devices to get WTFast performance. Maybe look into that or if there is anything else similiar to that. The Kickstarter ended awhile back and no idea if they met their goal though.

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That's bullshit. Because it's not just Verizon. it's Time Warner, Charter, and many over seas ISPs. Look at the huge thread that was created that is over 235 pages. It's not just Verizon.

Also if it was simple Verizon then SE should pay it. SE is getting plenty of money in subscriptions. How much are they losing by people who are unable to play the game as a result? I'm guessing a fair amount more than they would have to pay to Verizon. Apparently economics is not your strong suit.

I like you for defending a company you believe in, but don't become an Ishgardian worshiping a blind faith.

I do understand, however YOU don't seem to understand. Verizon and other peers dump all traffic to the shortest route but they also have a program of weights and measures into their routers by a means of a cost value. Data exchanged between the routers based around the BGP (Border Gateway Protocol) help to determine this.


This basically means Verizon can't do anything either, so now we come full circle back to SE and say wtf were you thinking with these data center locations? This is the worst peering I have ever seen. You say 'do the legwork' which means SPEAK UP and then tell me I don't understand when I attempt this.


Believe me I am ALL OVER the verizon forums and here and I'm considering writing a letter to the FCC defining the problem and let them figure out who's fault this is.

Ezenthor (and other disbelievers/naysayers)....please take the time to read the blogposts I linked in earlier to get a better understanding of what the problem is. You're going to come across data and graphics like this that quite clearly demonstrate some of the problems we face, as well as the solutions and the ownus for who is responsible to address them:

http://blog.level3.com/open-internet...tal-mea-culpa/

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So let’s look at what that means in one of those locations. The one Verizon picked in its diagram: Los Angeles. All of the Verizon FiOS customers in Southern California likely get some of their content through this interconnection location. It is in a single building. And boils down to a router Level 3 owns, a router Verizon owns and four 10Gbps Ethernet ports on each router. A small cable runs between each of those ports to connect them together. This diagram is far simpler than the Verizon diagram and shows exactly where the congestion exists.
http://blog.level3.com/wp-content/up...w-1024x351.jpg
Verizon has confirmed that everything between that router in their network and their subscribers is uncongested – in fact has plenty of capacity sitting there waiting to be used. Above, I confirmed exactly the same thing for the Level 3 network. So in fact, we could fix this congestion in about five minutes simply by connecting up more 10Gbps ports on those routers. Simple. Something we’ve been asking Verizon to do for many, many months, and something other providers regularly do in similar circumstances. But Verizon has refused. So Verizon, not Level 3 or Netflix, causes the congestion. Why is that? Maybe they can’t afford a new port card because they’ve run out – even though these cards are very cheap, just a few thousand dollars for each 10 Gbps card which could support 5,000 streams or more. If that’s the case, we’ll buy one for them. Maybe they can’t afford the small piece of cable between our two ports. If that’s the case, we’ll provide it. Heck, we’ll even install it.

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http://blog.level3.com/open-internet/not-neutrality/

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But it is now late September. So what has changed? Well, let us look at three large Local Exchange Carriers (LECs) in the United States. These LECs are telephone companies that built broadband networks on the back of monopoly-funded telephone infrastructure. Over the past six months, the utilization of each interconnection location between their networks and Level 3’s has changed as shown in the following diagram.
http://blog.level3.com/wp-content/up.../09/lec123.jpg
Each number shows utilization at one of the interconnection locations in various cities throughout the United States between Level 3 and the LECs. Utilization above 85% indicates the LEC is causing congestion in that city by refusing to add interconnection capacity

This shows a dramatic improvement for LEC1 and LEC3, but a continued degradation for LEC2. You might say that it’s good news overall. But if you value an open Internet underpinned by a dynamic competitive environment, you may have a different opinion.

And that’s because the reason the interconnect utilization between Level 3 and LEC1 and LEC3 improved is that these LECs forced Netflix to pay them to interconnect directly with them. And as Netflix CEO Reed Hastings has pointed out several times, Netflix didn’t do that because they were taking advantage of a highly competitive Internet marketplace. They did it because they had no choice: all third-party content that LEC broadband users want to see eventually has to go through LEC interconnection points. When the LEC tries to turn these interconnection points into Internet tollbooths there is no alternate path for the content to take to reach the consumers.

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It isn't JUST this MMO that struggles with these problems. It has happened to countless games and services over the years. In the last year it has been plastered on my ISP's forums for various games like LoL, WoW, GW2, amongst other services. Oh, and in case you didn't know...I am with Time Warner Cable. Have been since they beta tested cable internet in my area almost 20 years ago. And guess what---I was dealing with these same issues back then for games like Freespace Online and Diablo (the original release), amongst other things.

It is a KNOWN AND DOCUMENTED PROBLEM WITH OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. Again... read the blog posts linked earlier. Once you have a better understanding of the problems you may be facing, then you stand a better chance of getting something done about it.

I did...and so have many others. It isn't necessarily just going to happen on it's own just because you want it fixed---sometimes you need to voice your concerns. But...you need to be expressing your displeasure to the people that can actually do something about it.

Verizon doesn't care. I just fixed the issue with FiOS. I cancelled them and switched to Cox. Same route, no lag.

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Originally Posted by Alexika

Verizon doesn't care. I just fixed the issue with FiOS. I cancelled them and switched to Cox. Same route, no lag.

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That's great. But this does nothing for people who live in an area with no Cox or Optimum etc. And I don't know anyone crazy enough to move their entire belongings for a game.

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Originally Posted by TeaTimeBear

That's great. But this does nothing for people who live in an area with no Cox or Optimum etc. And I don't know anyone crazy enough to move their entire belongings for a game.

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Might sound harsh, but that's too bad. Sorry.

I will bold the part you conveniently neglected: Verizon doesn't care. Two years of fighting with them and they maintain it is not their fault. Good luck throwing things against a wall and waiting for it to stick. Verizon's wall is made of teflon.

Glad some customers of Verizon get something done.

Here in PA? They say it's not their problem, it's on FF14 end.

And before you ask, yes, I showed them everything. Doesn't matter .. "It's your game's routing, not ours ..."

So I just use WTFast to play. Can't otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Alexika

Might sound harsh, but that's too bad. Sorry.

I will bold the part you conveniently neglected: Verizon doesn't care. Two years of fighting with them and they maintain it is not their fault. Good luck throwing things against a wall and waiting for it to stick. Verizon's wall is made of teflon.

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No I didn't ignore it. It is a solution to people who can swap. But for those of us in area's under their domain this does nothing. I don't need to throw anything against a wall because I have no high ping anymore or bad hops.