Like red scrip was the problem...

You can`t fix it all by increasing or decreasing drop/turn in ratios/RNG... SE.

Sometimes you really need to stop, re-think what you have done, and move away from bad ideas. Is not the red scrip reward ratio what killed crafting (status after hotfix: still very very dead). Getting 25 or 50 red scrips doesn`t make a diference, maybe in time, but again, for the casual, midcore and even some hardcore players, they won`t go back or keep progressing in crafting, even if it was 450 red scrips per item, even without the weekly cap.

Honestly, you are not seeing the problem. Or if you do, you are totally ignoring it hoping we just "swallow" it.

The problem is not the turn ins, but the fact we are not having a progression system that rewards crafters and gatherers for what they do, but, just placing a completely uninspired weekly lookout in a pathetic attempt to kill omnicrafting. This is the complete opposite extreme of the masterbook II RNG based progression, just, with a timed gate instead an RNG one.

You need to find balance, you can`t RNG or time gate everything, when progression depends on random chance, or looks so far away it feels like you are not progressing at all, or looks like this red scrips, like very tight controled cheap experience, players stop having fun, this plagued the relic quest, this plagues raiding, and now the pest reached crafting. This is not fun anymore.

Honestly, this all feels like a very bad last week before the deadline idea of content for crafting in the expansion, the fact that every single item is just a recolored version of pre-existing items (and that the 1 star and 2 star gears are exactly the same thing with diferent numbers in the description)... Sounds like crafting wasn`t ready by 3.0, and in an attempt to deliver something, you guys killed the thing.

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QFT

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

What are red scrips used for? Gear, Favors, and Mats.

What are the problems? Gear, Favors, and Mats.

All this does is allow more people to get to the point where the real problems start occurring.

This changes almost nothing. You're just hitting the impossible roadblock even sooner. That's it.

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As i did in this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ith-red-scrips...

Imagine and high end fight which DPS-Healing check is so hard, even BiS characters doing perfect rotations can`t beat it. Does it solve the problem if SE increases the drop of tomestones to get raid gear? That`s what happening here.

I'm sure there are other problems, but I'm thrilled about increased Red scrips. I'd much rather not spend ten straight hours trying to cap my gathering scrips each week. By all means, offer suggestions on how to improve crafting, but I certainly won't be complaining about this change.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

I'm sure there are other problems, but I'm thrilled about increased Red scrips. I'd much rather not spend ten straight hours trying to cap my gathering scrips each week. By all means, offer suggestions on how to improve crafting, but I certainly won't be complaining about this change.

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What are red scrips used for? Gear, Favors, and Mats.

What are the problems? Gear, Favors, and Mats.

All this does is allow more people to get to the point where the real problems start occurring.

This changes almost nothing. You're just hitting the impossible roadblock even sooner. That's it.

Why is gear a problem, especially for 'casuals'? It's 3 weeks for a mainhand, and you get your scribs in half the time than before.

Why should any 'casual' care about more? Why should any 'casual' have to gather favors 11h/week, if he don't need them @all, he should just gear up.

What we need are more recipes and mats that make it worth getting all this gear at all. Before 3.1 I'll get 1-3 items for my gatherers and the rest idk, maybe mats for me or mats for mb...

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

What are red scrips used for? Gear, Favors, and Mats.

What are the problems? Gear, Favors, and Mats.

All this does is allow more people to get to the point where the real problems start occurring.

This changes almost nothing. You're just hitting the impossible roadblock even sooner. That's it.

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Thank you for the perfect resume xD!

It helps the gear problem a little bit. At least for me. Still needs some work.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Why is gear a problem, especially for 'casuals'? It's 3 weeks for a mainhand, and you get your scribs in half the time than before.

Why should any 'casual' care about more?

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Gear is a problem since it takes 66 weeks to get fully geared on all classes. You might say "Well, you're only supposed to gear up your specialist classes" Well if that's the case then why is omnicrafting needed more now than ever before? With daily turnins, you'd really want all classes levelled to choose the cheapest option for scrips and of course all Heavensward crafts require mats from a lot of other crafts.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

All this does is allow more people to get to the point where the real problems start occurring.

This changes almost nothing. You're just hitting the impossible roadblock even sooner. That's it.

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I see what you're saying. Crafting/gathering obviously has its problems. Getting the BiS gear in particular looks like one giant headache, but why be against a change that helps, even a little bit?

If you craft the gears youre getting a small amount of craft/control/cp over the scrip gear...as in literally not enough to make a difference as you can already craft every possible item with a melded i150 set. I dont get why everyone needs the 170/180 gears so fast when we are a few months away from any recipe that will require the stats...

And just how long does it take to get your 3 specialists in full gear? You guessed it...a few months.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Gear is a problem since it takes 66 weeks to get fully geared on all classes. You might say "Well, you're only supposed to gear up your specialist classes" Well if that's the case then why is omnicrafting needed more now than ever before? With daily turnins, you'd really want all classes levelled to choose the cheapest option for scrips and of course all Heavensward crafts require mats from a lot of other crafts.

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I know right. I cant speak for crafting but I need two gathering classes just so gearing up one gatherer isnt a nightmare.

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Originally Posted by WellFooled

I see what you're saying. Crafting/gathering obviously has its problems. Getting the BiS gear in particular looks like one giant headache, but why be against a change that helps, even a little bit?

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Sure, it's nice but as I said makes the tiniest of differences in the longrun. I'd rather they spend time fixing big problems rather than little ones.

They want to kill omni-crafting so they:

-Make specialist skills absolutely irrelevant, really, no one needs em for anything.
-Make omni-crafting much more needed as ever before, from 3 to 5 diferent crafted materials per recipe. (this would be perfect in a world with specialist exclusive recipees)
-No specialist exclusive recipees, no specialist exclusive gear, no specialist nothing, specialization is completely irrelevant.
-System still allows for omni-crafting gearing through insane timegate, but still allows it.
-3.2 will probably bring a new "omni" set as things are going... So, lol, so much for killing omnicrafting.

They are not even trying.

This is the same situation with personal housing.

Before personal housing, Yoshi-P said personal housing will be much more affordable than FC housing. When it was released, it turned out to be a complete lie.

Before red scripts, Yoshi-P said red scripts are a way for the casuals to slowly accumulate gear and don't have to meld stuff, while the people who want to progress quickly can just craft their gear and overmeld it. When it was released, it turned out to be more more like the end-game for crafting/gathering with everyone gated behind red scripts.

The expectations they had players build up was that red scripts can be ignored by the "end-game crafter/gatherers" who will be doing the same as in 2.x: craft, overmeld, be done with it; while the casuals just have to slowly do the weekly cap and eventually will have the same level of gear as those overmelds. But in the end they force everyone into the red script grind, so they had to make it take longer than what the casual players expected.

Red script amount was never the problem. Red script itself forced on every gatherer/crafter is the problem. Once you let go of the end-game crafter/gatherers, you can design a red script system that involves little or no RNG, takes much less time (30 minutes a day for 6 days, like Ex.Roulette?) and not bound to timed nodes, i.e., real casual friendly system, for the casual players.

Put simply,

• hardcore players are saying WTF because of the gating not because of the time required or the RNG;
• casual players are saying WTF because of the time required, the RNG, and the timed nodes, they don't mind the gating.

Squre Enix is just saying, "okay I know you ordered steak and we gave you pizza, so I'll give you two colas instead of one, happy?"

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Sure, it's nice but as I said makes the tiniest of differences in the longrun. I'd rather they spend time fixing big problems rather than little ones.

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Hey, I'm with you. But little fixes can be pushed out quickly, where as fixing the whole system will probably take more time and thought. I'm all for little changes to help in the mean time.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

Squre Enix is just saying, "okay I know you ordered steak and we gave you pizza, so I'll give you two colas instead of one, happy?"

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And the second one is Diet cola.

@Zfz

Also add to that the Grade V materia that was supposed to be here in 3.0, then in 3.05 and it still isn't here.


(Mutamix doesn't count)

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

@Zfz

Also add to that the Grade V materia that was supposed to be here in 3.0, then in 3.05 and it still isn't here.

(Mutamix doesn't count)

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You can obtain tier V's through it so it does count. On day one after tier V's could be obtained from it there was half a dozen various tier V's already in the market on my server. Granted they were expensive but the price has been dropping on tier V's since then.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You can obtain tier V's through it so it does count. On day one after tier V's could be obtained from it there was half a dozen various tier V's already in the market on my server. Granted they were expensive but the price has been dropping on tier V's since then.

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Actually it doesn't count because Square has stated Grade V materia will not be available until a month after release (3.05) other then through mutamix.

Even if they said nothing, it hardly counts because the rate of obtaining V material via Mutanix is so incredibly rare that there are hardly any Grafe V's out there.

Heck, if you were to get every Grade V on every server and use them all to max meld the new gear, chances are you wouldn't have even close to enough materia. Right now their only is rings and items that only require 1.

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Actually it doesn't count because Square has stated Grade V material will not be available until a month after release (3.05) other then through mutamix.

Even if they said nothing, it hardly counts because the rate of obtains V material via Mutanix is so incredibly rare that there are hardly any Grafe V's out there.

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You can't have it both ways saying it does not count but also hardly counts, it either does or does not and fact is it does. SE will add more ways to gain it later but for the time being it still counts even prior to SE adding the 'alternative' method. I am not sure when SE will add the alternative way to obtain but you can get them already even if at a low chance.

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Originally Posted by Alexander_Dragonfang

They want to kill omni-crafting so they:

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Omnicrafting is the best thing about FFXIV. It's so much more fun to craft and gather my own stuff instead of buying it from the MB.

The real problem is the excessive gilgrind involved with gearing up DoH and DoL for people who only want to craft their own stuff.

This fix didn't really help at all. Items are still hard to get and gatherers atm don't care about favors. Here a Lil fix how about the red crafting mats shouldn't use favor item cause why would gatherers do favors instead of gearing up? What were they thinking?

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You can't have it both ways saying it does not count but also hardly counts, it either does or does not and fact is it does. SE will add more ways to gain it later but for the time being it still counts even prior to SE adding the 'alternative' method. I am not sure when SE will add the alternative way to obtain but you can get them already even if at a low chance.

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I never contradicted myself because both were in different realities. One was the current situation where we were promised a way to obtain Grade V without Mutamix and the other was one where we weren't.

Even if materia V was a thing, its far from the point of the thread, no point on overmelding gear if you can`t craft anything without farming a week of materials, all for a non-existent market.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You can't have it both ways saying it does not count but also hardly counts, it either does or does not and fact is it does. SE will add more ways to gain it later but for the time being it still counts even prior to SE adding the 'alternative' method. I am not sure when SE will add the alternative way to obtain but you can get them already even if at a low chance.

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Fact is it doesnt. Getting a tier V has a chance of 5% or lower. (which is less then 1 per 100 tier IV's) On top of that there are dozens of different materias you can get. Actually saying transmutation is a viable way to get the tier V's you need is beyond stupidity.

I thought we get those new tomes by dungeons or so.. o-o
Not by this very terrible maded system lol...

I still have 0% interesst in any Red Scrips. Its pure time/effort/Gil waste atm

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Originally Posted by DarthBuzzer

Gear is a problem since it takes 66 weeks to get fully geared on all classes.

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Stop trying to gear up all crafters?

The problem with scrips isn't with crafting scrips anyway, it is with gathering scrips.

You can either get Favors or get gear. Right now the gear is pointless so you obvious just want to spend your reds on favors but eventually you will need the gear and you will be SoL when you need it because you spent all your reds on favors.