I posted a very similar (basically the same) thread in the tank section of the forums, but as one of my goals is eventually to pick a healing class I also wanted to ask it here as all the questions are generally relevant in the exact same way. That thread is here...
So for ease of reading I'm just going to change all the relevant words to fit in the context of picking a healing class, with maybe some differences.
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Hello. So after 2 different melee DPS classes to 50 (Monk and Ninja) I've decided I want to pick a healer. I have Marauder to 26 and PLD almost to 34 just to unlock all of their cross class skills and of course to try them out a little bit, and then of course there is the DRK, however I've only done the opening quest to that. My plan is eventually to have one of each role; a tank, heals, and dps class on hand. For DPS I favor Ninja, but I've yet to decide on what tank or healing class I want to pick. So anyway that's the context and now I will ask some questions that I hope you can do your best to answer! よろしく！
1. Which healer is considered the "best" at the moment? I know, I know, they all have their strengths and weaknesses, but I think you know what I mean here. Generally, meta-permitting, there is always a class considered objectively higher tuned than the others. I'm curious right now which healer is seen as the best...tuned class if you will, in ascending order. This isn't so much because I want to pick the best, balance can always fluctuate, I'm just curious what the general opinion is among the healing community at the very moment
2. Do any of the healing classes have any situations where they are considered un-viable or sub-optimal? I mean this in the sense that if I join a group, the party gets all "Ugh...it's a [x healing class here), we're screwed". Do any healerss have this sort of issue with any of the current end-game content? I know I've experienced stuff like this playing certain healing specs in WoW PvP (such as the ups and downs of healing priest). This is also in regards to an average pug group. I'm aware that in a really organized, high-skill group that possibly anything can work for anything, those types of players make almost anything work if they have to.
3. If you had to make a completely off-the-cuff and uneducated, un-backed by statistics guess as to what the least ---> most played healing class is in general, what would be your observation?
Thank you for your answers and assistance in helping me pick my healing class :)
I want to heal! ...but first...
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08-01-2015, 04:44 PMzipzoI want to heal! ...but first...
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08-01-2015, 05:04 PMAkyio
1. WHM+~SCH~
2. AST
3. WHM
From what i see, around 70% of healers running around on my server are WHM. 20-25% are SCH, and the rest are AST(there are more AST, but they have switched to either WHM or SCH until issues are fixed).
Then,i dont ever dare to, but i would say WHM is the "best" if we're talking about healing, getting people as high up in health as possible fastly and just doing the pure healing work. Still though, i can't say WHM is better than SCH, they are both very powerful healing classes with very nice tools available, and they perfectly complement one another, square has done amazing work in balancing these two healers over time in this game.
For the rest, from what you see in threads here, AST is currenly considered underpowered, and square is taking a look into it. Content is doable with AST, but it's much less safe than doing it with WHM or SCH or any combo of healers with those two. -
08-01-2015, 05:24 PMFaizeD
1. WHM and SCH. Most serious raid groups will try to get one of each.
2. AST. Any of the 3 healers can clear PUG content just fine. No one should say anything about the types of healers that show up in DF. If we're talking serious business end-game raiding (Savage), then you'll have to coordinate with the other healer because no one wants to double up (WHM/WHM, SCH/SCH, AST/AST). The game as it stands heavily favours a WHM/SCH combination because they synergise better than any combination involving an AST. That's not to say that groups wont take an AST, or that ASTs havent cleared savage, but you will have a more difficult time finding a group and the learning curve will be steeper.
3. SCH > AST > WHM. In my experience. -
08-01-2015, 07:14 PMYuiSasaki
Tbh, you should try out all the heals (you need to level them sooner or later anyway in order to obtain the cross-class abilities).
In General one could split the heals into: pure healing and shielding. Pure Healing goes for WHM and AST, while shielding goes to SCH (yes AST has Nocturnal, but until they change something about it it's not worth comparing it to SCH).
One could also look for 2ndary stats, if you prefer crit, you could go SCH and AST (at least imo AST plays well with crit :X). If you rather like DTR & SS you should go WHM (which can be also played with crit, but most ppl tend to go to SS & DTR). -
08-01-2015, 08:06 PMPhoenicia
1- From experience, SCH can pull the most shenanigans. SCH was able to solo T5 when 2 WHMs struggled to heal it before gear trivialized it for example. SCH got a few "sneak fairy healing" nerfs but I still think it's a stronger healer than the others.
2- AST is a bit lacking. But none of the healers "Screws" you.
3- Pre-3.0 statistics said WHM was the most played class of all. Assuming that, WHM is most played. There are more scholars than Atrologians because AST is relatively new and groups favor WHM/SCH combo. -
08-01-2015, 08:29 PMo3o
There is no best healer. Right now whm and sch seem really on par. Just sch still is the stronger single target healer and whm still the better aoe healer. Both are great choices.
However astro is for the most part in need of some tuning.
Currently it has the most MP issues. Weakest heals, few emergency heals and cards are weak and unreliable. The sch Fairey Selene buffs party dps more then the astro cards can currently.
Most party's that are trying to set up savage statics are looking for the whm + sch wombo combo. -
08-02-2015, 12:31 AMEudyptes
I would just research WHM and SCH and see which one suits you better. WHM is better AE heals and has the most direct/straight forward healing of all the classes. SCH is better single target healing and uses a lot of damage mitigation rather than heals, and is also a pet class.
Other things to factor in, SCH and WHM compliment each other almost perfectly. So if you have any friends you raid with regularly, pick the healer opposite of them. If you do a lot of pugging, then WHM is the safe choice.
AST is in a really bad spot atm and I honestly couldn't recommend anyone pick it up unless they really enjoy its playstyle (which I personally do enjoy a lot). However, it is almost certainly going to be buffed in 3.1. By how much is unknown though. -
08-02-2015, 12:45 AMbasketofseals
If you're primarily using Duty Finder, I'd have to recommend SCH.
The ability to cast resurrection 7 times and still be at a comfortable mana level is pretty nice. Although, I suppose a group that has 7 people die in one encounter doesn't have a very high chance of clearing it in the first place. -
08-02-2015, 12:50 AMzipzo
Can anybody give me a decent elaboration as to what is currently the issue with AST? The reason I ask is because of the 3 healers, this is the one that actually sort of piqued my curiousity, but that's why I'm asking these questions above!
So what are AST's current issues/obstacles? -
08-02-2015, 12:54 AMGideonHighmournWithout going into too much detail ... In normal content and leveling, I wouldn't say there really are any issues outside of when they gain skills. They do wait a long time to receive new single-target attacks and don't receive an AoE until 52. Outside of progression and "end game" content, there is really nothing wrong with AST. The problem at progression and endgame content is mostly their lack of healing cool downs compared to WHM/SCH and their lack of reliable, meaningful group utility. The card buffs are mostly just fluff, and really don't fill in the "hole" left by lower potency heals and lack of healing cool downs, as they're supposed to have traded healing potency for utility according to SE.Quote:
So what are AST's current issues/obstacles?
AST lacks its own unique healing mechanics, and is therefore pigeon-holed into being a WHM Jr or SCH Jr; since it doesn't (or hasn't yet) created a new "meta" healing game, it's lagging behind the other two healers in terms of performance in endgame progression.
By all means, if you enjoy the class, play it. I'm sure more changes and adjustments will come to AST over the following months. -
08-02-2015, 12:57 AMEudyptesIn short, it underperforms in every aspect compared to the other two. It suffers from "jack of all trades" syndrome, while the other two combine to make a perfect pair.Quote:
Originally Posted by zipzo
You can get content done with AST, so if you want to play it and have fun, play it. However if being an optimal class is important to you and you want less worry/struggle in progression content, I'd pass on it. -
08-02-2015, 01:02 AMHapposai
THM lol jk but really if you want to take healing seriously you will need swiftcast for those oops moments where you need to insta raise a downed member. Its not absolutely necessary for pug content (especially if you're so awesome no one dies but sometimes that is out of your control), but you may get some raised eyebrows if you admit to not having swiftcast. I lvled blm to 50 first and thought why not try healing on whm its the logical next step for me! What I learned is I am a gawd awful healer. I was told to find another job when I tried to heal ifirit my first time for the relic quest. Whm can be challenging as you have strong burst healing, very strong aoe dps and when combined can pose some serious mana issues to the inexperienced. If people see whm in party not spamming holy they might complain. If you spam holy and tank dies they will complain. If you spam holy, keep everyone alive and ask for a moment for mana people will complain. Of course through experience, you will learn to fix those things. I couldn't so I hung up my white robe for good and leveled up the tanks. Loved it! But then a rl friend got into the game and wanted to be pally, while my other friend refused to do anything but dps. Against my better judgement, I started leveling arcanist/scholar. Leveling 1-15 was mind numbingly boring. But once I got into my first dungeon everything changed. Although scholar doesnt have the burst and strong aoe healing of whm, I found scholar to be a far more forgiving healing class to learn than whm. Mostly due to your fairy handling like 80% of the healing (in early learning dungeons). It is far easier to switch on cleric stance (ugh so yea you DO need to lvl whm) as a scholar, throw on all your dots, bane em to all the mobs, switch back with plenty of time to heal. I cant tell you how many poor tanks I killed in stone vigil cleric dancing on my whm. As a bonus, once your done leveling scholar all you gotta do is a few class quests and now you have a leveled summoner.
Id like to add that I think youre on the right track by leveling each role. I had no idea how terrible I was as a blm dps until I learned healing and tanking. It has also given me a much needed slice of humble pie. I never rage on my healer or tanks as I know what its like to be learning. Im an "okay" tank and healer. I can reactively get through most content fulfilling those roles. But to be a great tank/healer its all about being proactive. Know when to pop cd/buff before it is needed. Healers and tanks are expected to have the script memorized while dps can quite often improvise with very lil negative side effects. I wish you luck in your endeavors! -
08-02-2015, 01:24 AMCausalityQuote:
Originally Posted by GideonHighmourn
But they are no means nonviable for current endgame content. I saw this video thread a few minutes ago.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...strologian-PoV -
08-02-2015, 01:29 AMGideonHighmournWhere did I claim it was non viable? In fact, I said it was lagging behind in performance compared to WHM/SCH in the current meta game, which has perhaps been the most common complaint about AST. Also, as stated by numerous others, the ability to clear content has nothing to do with balance or performance compared to SCH/WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Causality
If you want a more detailed post about the previous meta game, and the problems AST has in fitting into it, there's a good read on reddit which can be found here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ed_from_party/
The biggest obstacle for AST at the moment, I'd say, is that the majority of their utility is tied to RNG, which makes it unreliable. On top of this, the card effects are a little underwhelming and don't make up for the randomness of the cards, lack of healing cool downs, and lower potency heals overall. -
08-02-2015, 08:56 AMMXMoondoggieJust suffering from being a new class mostly. They had some interesting ideas with it but didn't implement them very well. It doesn't play so well in endgame content in 4 man dungeons not so bad but 8 man full party content AST feels more like a passenger than a useful part of the team. It's hard to explain unless you have played with an AST or played as one. In a party with a SCH I can feel them there I know what they are doing and it's like riding a wave between healing and DPS and SCH's tend to feel the same with WHM they know the WHM can cope with any big hits so they can let their fairy heal while they do DPS and mitigate the hard hits. What the SCH does directly is helping what I'm doing. With an AST I feel like I'm having to over compensate a lot for it's lack of tools it's support skills are okay but need to be made more useful and they need better healing ability so the other healing class doesn't have to patch up the holes it leaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by zipzo
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08-04-2015, 02:32 AMMuahbec
WHM: Healing power, you can easily top the whole raid with some potent AOE heals and also has one of the most potent DPS among the healers (if not THE most potent).
SCH: Damage mitigation, you can decrease the amount of damage the whole raid receive and you have your fellow fairy to help you with your heals or with DPS.
AST: A weaker version of both, with cards that are not exactly THAT useful or significant in the battlefield. Surely it will receive some rework/changes/whatever lol but for now, WHM and SCH are the preferences. -
08-04-2015, 04:08 AMWingsOfAzrael
1. sch and whm
2.ast definitly
3. sch>ast>whm in public for fates and stuff,in raid groups/static raid groups? whm/sch>ast
most people want whm/sch cause scholar has the best shields and whm has the best aoe heals/raw healing power, ast is just a weaker version of each depending on the stance and cards don't make up for it, the healing difference between ast and the other two isn't evident in earlier content but it is in end game content, ast lacks utility compared to the other two and in my opinion nocturnal stance is crap unless you're running two asts or missing a sch, but even then its still weaker than sch
ast is weaker in both in terms of dps and cards don't make up for it -
08-04-2015, 02:21 PMGuilty_King
Avoid AST, it is such a crappy healer.
Do you like burst healing/being the best healer? WHM
Do you like to judge damage before it happens and prevent some of it? SCH
Do you want to put in twice the effort and still only do 75%-80% of a WHM or SCH? Go AST! -
08-04-2015, 11:23 PMYuiSasakiDo you like to listen to lv51 ASTs who havnt even leveled to 60? Read the post above... oh wait..Quote:
Originally Posted by Guilty_King
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08-04-2015, 11:29 PMZaj_Quilos90% of the first page of the healer board is bashing Astrologians so.....!Quote:
Originally Posted by zipzo
I love AST - been 60 a while and much prefer it to WHM which got very stale for me. -
08-05-2015, 12:31 AMTonberiScholarRNG on its primary mechanic (the buffs from Cards).Quote:
Originally Posted by zipzo
That's the biggest problem.
It's penalized as a healer due to having the potential to buff, but given that what buff you can apply is completely random and the buffs themselves are not very impactful unless you're getting a perfect string of Royal Road buffs on good Cards, it ends up being lackluster.
The cards need to be either less tied to RNG or a lot stronger to make up for it, and right now they're the worst of both worlds.
You'd need to cut the deck in half (let's say Balance, a combined Ewer/Spire and a combined Spear/Bole) and make it automatically apply to the entire party with no potency cuts in order to start beating out the DPS buff of just the uptime on Fey Wind from Scholar's Selene pet. Not counting that WHM and Scholar can both outdamage AST on their own, and can heal harder for longer.