Just in case anyone hasn't done the WAR and DRK 50 quest line. Spoiler alert.
After doing the War quest line and keeping the Beast inside controlled, I began to wonder. Is the darkness that tried to take over when doing the Drk quest line the same thing?
In the War quest line is stated that to lose control of the Inner Beast is to become a machine of rage and destruction. And then you have your Dark Side who tells you to just go and kill everyone and not be bothered by trifles like returning some guys cabbages. Both have to be kept in control or else bad things may happen.
So are they really that different? If they are, what sets them apart from each other lore wise?
Is the beast the same as the darkness?
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08-01-2015, 04:11 AMAlsbetIs the beast the same as the darkness?
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08-01-2015, 04:54 AMCilia
I haven't done the WAR quests, but I'd argue they're different aspects of our personalities.
The Inner Beast could be said to be just our primal, unrestrained lust for blood and violence. It's a reversion to a more primal state of mind where we don't care who or what we're attacking - as long as we're killing something, that satisfies the Inner Beast, which is why it's so dangerous to lose control over it.
In contrast, our Darkside is a bit more complex - they're every aspect of our personality we deny. While it's easy to mistake the Darkside as just an engine of bloodlust, s/he is way more complex than that - s/he feels sorrow and pain, not just bloodlust. S/he is your desire to be free of Hydaelyn's yoke and live for yourself - and has no qualms doing whatever it takes to achieve that. Losing control here wouldn't be as bad, but it would be much more tragic - instead of an engine of destruction we'd become a twisted reflection of what we once were.
TL;DR ver.
Inner Beast is our primal lust for blood and violence.
Dark Side is our repressed emotions and personality traits. -
08-01-2015, 09:28 AMBelhi
I likewise haven't finished both questlines but my take is they are different. The Inner Beast seems to be primal desires and instincts. While people loose control of the inner beast and become uncontrolled killing machines, It seems more to do with the inherent mental state of the WAR rather than traits of the inner beast itself. One obvious difference is that the WoL doesn't struggle to control his/her inner beast the way others do. We see from people who lose control that it is desire robbed of reason that drives them to attack.
Further, the way to grow stronger for a WAR is to find larger and more dangerous challenges. This causes the inner beast to stir and awaken allowing the WAR to harness it better. Its not just rage that powers a WAR but the instinct for survival and dominance. -
08-01-2015, 09:54 AMLusavari
There's Inner Beast, Inner Darkness, The Inner Dragon, The Void, The 7th Chakra Gate... Each one is a slightly different thing. The Darkness is everything you desire to be, but hold back. The Inner Beast in the wild animal aspect. The Dragon is a craving of absolute power and comes from that which you draw power from, The void is the call of demons and the power to annihilate everything, and then the 7th Chakra is an attunement to the aetherial powers throughout the world. Similarly, one could argue attuning to the constellations also falls in this category of things. Each one will destroy you in a different way though.
If you're overtaken by Darkness, you would become evil. Overcome by the beast, you become a marauding animal. Overcome by the Dragon, you become a thrall of Nidhogg. If you are overcome by the void, Demons take possession. -
08-01-2015, 10:15 AMdragoeleteits not so simple as you would become evil the darkness itself is not evil it is just your repressed emotions and rage. it would prolly be more accurate to say you would just lose interest in helping people unless it farther your own interest at the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusavari
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08-01-2015, 10:23 AMPArcher
I'd say the Darkside is what we try to suppress, as well as the more selfish parts of ourselves. Our anger and resentment at being treated as a weapon rather than a person, vengeance for the wrongs we see against ourselves, our desire to just satisfy ourselves rather than help others. And yet, Dark Knights are sworn to help those who can't help themselves, especially against those in positions of power. Which makes a rather interesting dynamic between the job and the Darkside.
Warriors are all about being the strongest, toughest, most powerful person they can be. The Inner Beast is a bit more primitive part of ourselves, but at the same time it has its own quirks. How you control yourself, and the Beast, is actually more important than just getting stronger, as you'd see in the WAR questlines. Anger is the Warrior's bane, which leads to lost control, and the murderous rampages seen through "lost" Warriors. Prevailing through tougher and tougher challenges does bring more strength, but true control comes from having something to fight for -
08-01-2015, 08:12 PMGeist
Let me draw some parallels by quoting from other media (apologies for the occasional slight generalization):
Inner Beast -> "HULK STRONGEST ONE THERE IS!"
Darkness -> "I have a question for you Lord Guilford. What do you do where there is an evil you cannot defeat by just means? Do you stain your hands with evil to destroy evil? Or do you remain steadfastly just and righteous even if it means surrendering to evil?"
As others have mentioned before, one's more about primal instinct and raw power triumphing on the battlefield, the other about dealing what such aspects as VENGEANCE! and what it means to be a "hero of justice" (both Batman and the Nasuverse provide additional, interesting examples...) and coming to terms with it, especially by turning it into a tool to bring on a "kinder, gentler world" for those who are powerless. -
08-02-2015, 10:39 PMsaber_alterHmm...it's less so that you become evil, and more so that you give up your facade. you give up your responsibilities as a warrior of light and become selfish, putting yourself first before others. It's not necessarily evil, your darkside thinks that putting your own interests and happiness first is a lot better than the self-destructive path that we walk. s/he is and always will be aggravated by the fact that your treated more as a tool to move and place, and less as a person with desires and struggles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusavari
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08-03-2015, 12:06 AMPArcherI feel like in the future, some quests will make a check to see if you have DRK past 50 (or are actively on DRK), and give different dialog than if you are not. Did it in HW with DRG, so its not an impossibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by saber_alter
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08-03-2015, 01:23 AMCiliaQuote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
Numerous quests check to see if you've finished X class or job quest. Yugiri compliments you on becoming an accomplished ninja while exposing the Ivy in 2.4 if you're a ninja, Thubyrgeim says you can administer Tataru's ACN entrance exam if you've finished that line, Y'mhitra treats you like an old friend if you've finished the 2.0 SMN quests when you need her help to yank Y'shtola out of the Lifestream, Surito Carito has different dialog in WP HM if you're on SCH, etc. It's not just DRGs in 3.0.
That said, I doubt DRK will ever take center stage like DRG did in 3.0. DRK is very different, flavor-wise, from most other jobs; while they're all neutral at worst, DRK takes us into "necessary evil" territory with the vigilante killings and such. Is it possible for DRK to take center stage and become the focal point of quests? Absolutely. Doesn't seem likely to me though. -
08-03-2015, 08:14 PMEchofallsIn other words, our psyche is a vast expanse and has a lot of F#@$ed up stuff going on in it. (Jung would be proud...)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusavari
Oh, do note that even if you haven't even touched the DRK questline, the Shadow self is still there, still deep inside your mind... Shouting and screaming at an unfair world that throws its problems on you.
I doubt we've heard the last of "Esteem"... -
08-03-2015, 08:26 PMWalluh
Berserker fury is not quite the same thing as repressed hatred and resentment, but they are at least somewhat similar. Not the same, but it made doing DRK after WAR that much more enjoyable for me.
Especially since I have a personality in mind for this character, AND she's Hellsguard to boot. -
08-03-2015, 11:41 PMwillibraI could totally see an antagonist acknowledging our darkside and appealing to it to justify themselves though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cilia