Okay starting off.. I first started this game during the beta of 1.0, and yes the game was a mess back then. One thing it did to that was sort of interesting though was that it allowed you to take pretty much any skill from any class and mix them together to pretty much make your own class. I very much enjoyed playing as a gladiator and equipping spells and heals, it was pretty fun just customizing my class, even if the game was clunky.
As of now, at level 60 you are the same as anyone else of your level. It's really boring to be honest... I think there needs to be some sort of customization allowed. Honestly, what's the point of the cross class system? They lock you into 2 jobs which only have a couple of skills that are actually useful. Just like the stat point system(only tanks can really choose), why even bother having it?
Now FFXI wasn't perfect, in fact, it did was a mess most of the time... But one thing that I always appreciated was the sub job system. Even if there was pretty much a perfect combination for every job, it was still fun to do stupid things like BLU/DRG or get some good laughs out of the guy who is running around as WAR/WHM.
I think FFXIV should allow you to choose your two supporting jobs, and also open up more skills to use in cross class so that different combinations would be competitive(also, open up damage spells on melee/melee attacks on casters). It may cause some unbalance at first, and people would use certain subs for the most part only, but even still, the option should be there. Many people actually enjoy customizing abilities, and developing their own style.
Example of what should be allowed on THM sub:
Fire(would be interesting to get astral fire/umbral ice @ 1 stack on other jobs)
Fire II
Blizzard
Sleep
Lethargy
Aetherial Manipulation(This could be nice on some melee jobs)
Example of what should be allowed on ACN sub:
Bio
Aetherflow(1 Stack max, would love to have this on DRK)
Energy Drain
Bane
Example of what should be allowed on PUG sub:
Boot Shine
Twin Snakes
Fists of Wind
Perfect Balance
Arm of the Destroyer
Example of what should be allowed on LNC sub:
Heavy Thrust(would probably be a bit broke as a cross class, but could be adjusted)
Life Surge
Leg Sweep
Ring of Thorns
Of course this would throw the current job balance all around, but the skills could be slightly adjusted if they proved to be too broken when subbed. Allowing customization like this would definitely make the game more interesting. Just think about going DRK with ACN/GLD subs, you could use bio/bane Aetherflow, and still have provoke to tank swap/grab aggro. Or you could go LNC sub on GLD to take ring of thorns for some AoE damage that PLD lacks.
I know, something like this will probably never happen. But even still, I think the direction they are going with the jobs is a bit stale, and could really use some more thought to it... Any kind of additional customization at this point would be welcomed.
Class/Job "Sub job system"
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07-30-2015, 05:35 PMKelgClass/Job "Sub job system"
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07-30-2015, 06:08 PMAnnietheCat
At this point I'll take any bit of freedom over the current system. As it stands, I just flat out refuse to run dungeons when I don't have to(like to advance the msq). I just find combat so tedious at this point. I'd very much like to see specialization, resulting in freer play styles. So Archers can choose to go primarily support(bard) or pure dps(ranger or something) or some combination that gives a Red Mage or Beast Master. Buuuut~ I'm a web designer not a game designer, so I have no clue what this type of thing would do to the game as we know it.
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07-30-2015, 06:13 PMSeig345
I believe this topic has been brought up many times before, but...
Part of the reason for the rigid lines drawn between the different jobs is to prevent any one job from becoming excluded from some/all content. This is mostly their reasoning behind the lack of diversity in the gear (having certain gear optimized for certain dungeons, etc). Another point I've seen made that seems valid to me is that in the end, the playerbase will take all the extra customization options, narrow down the best ones, and then 90% of the playerbase will simply copy/paste those, making that customization only meaningful for the trailblazers and those that can somehow deviate from the cookie-cutters without getting tossed out of a group in the process. Then you've got a bunch of other custom options the devs sank time and money into developing only for them to get thrown out, and the only way they can balance that out is to reshuffle in a "flavor of the month" system so that all the options will be valid at least some of the time.
That's just a quick rehash of what I've gleaned from the arguments so far; however, it's entirely possible there's a way to have the cake and eat it too, but it seems like SE's playing it safe for now. (Personally, I don't share in the complaint about the customization options, but I'd be the last to discourage the discussion) -
07-30-2015, 06:26 PMelemental10
People will still choose the best combination, i.e.
Tanks will have to have Provoke, Convalesence, Flash...
Healers will have to have Swiftcast, Stoneskin, Protect....
DPS will still have to have Blood for Blood, Internal Release, Second Wind...
The prospect of more choices is good but only on paper. In practical, the most wild combination won't contribute to the raids (and that's what the game is centered around) it will probably won't be implemented any time soon.
Sorry, OP but I would also like to have Life Surge on my WAR (dat Critical self-heal on Fell Cleave...) I don't think it happen with the current state of the game. -
07-30-2015, 06:36 PMAnnietheCat
Blood for blood isn't actually a "have to have" skill unless you're a raider, but that's beside the point. On Siren, I've seen a number of statics recruiting excluding bards already. "Brd need not apply" is the most common thing I've seen. I've also been kicked from two different DF runs just for showing up as brd. So the exclusion thing is already happening with some people. Combat is boring and monotonous right now. There's zero freedom, and it's driven many people into being hardcore crafters. OP's suggestions may not work, but if people don't enjoy the combat system, the devs should know about it. Even the whole "mandatory cross class skills" bit drives people away; my husband unsubbed for six months because he got so fed up with the way the system works. Each job has a single play style and if you don't play it that way you're labeled a crappy player and insulted incessantly. It's stale, at best.
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07-30-2015, 06:36 PMKelg
The reason it's requested a lot, is because many people would enjoy a feature like this. I am aware that people would say "choose x/y sub for this job", but even still, just the option to have some sort of control over how our jobs are built would breathe so much more life into this game's combat(for me, and many others at least).
I honestly don't think people would boot you from a group for having the wrong subs... I mean look at some of these DPS that don't even do their directionals, and DPS that deal less damage than tanks... They don't get kicked. So I don't really think pickup groups would really enforce anything. A feature like this would just add a bit more strategy and depth into the game, rather than "memorize the rotation you're given".
Heavensward should have brought something along the lines of this to spice things up a bit. -
07-31-2015, 06:59 AMKelgThey would, but at least we would have an option to play around with different builds. More builds = more fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by elemental10
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07-31-2015, 07:28 AMAshkendorAllowing a stack of Umbral Ice for anyone that uses mana would be utterly broken. Current MP recovery skills would suddenly be useless if you could just cast a Blizzard spell and get that massive mana regeneration from Umbral Ice. Shroud of Saints on cd? No problem, just have your WHM throw out a Blizzard spell. If I could cross-class it on PLD, I could probably spam Clemency pretty effectively. SMN wouldn't have to worry at all about mana conservation. It works on BLM because they're built around it, but it breaks everything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelg
Bane would be useless because it only spreads Bio, Bio II, and Miasma.Quote:
Example of what should be allowed on ACN sub:
Bio
Aetherflow(1 Stack max, would love to have this on DRK)
Energy Drain
Bane
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07-31-2015, 07:42 AMGilraen
I don't get how using XI's subjob system would be an improvement over the class system. If you feel you need every cross class ability under the sun then just don't wear the Job stone. Simple as that. The Jobs are supposed to be specializations on the class. It's why you lose half your cross class slots and are restricted to what classes you can cross class from. XI's sub job system would not be any different. It'd actually be worse as you'd then only be able to draw from one class/Extra Job for your cross class abilities instead of two.
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07-31-2015, 07:43 AMNektulos-Tuor
I would pick arcanist/archer.
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07-31-2015, 07:57 AMBishop81
As I have posted in other threads ...
The reason Classes/Jobs are boring now is because of "raid balance". The more customization given to the player, the harder and more work it takes to balance.[1]
The solution is simple.
- Make raids Job-only.
- Introduce cross-class skills that aren't tied to any class but are instead learned from Grimoires, Allagan Tomestones, ... etc. (i.e. "skill books") which are acquired from quests, vendors, dropped from NMs and appear in their own classless category - they are of course for use by specific classes only.
This way you can go wild with Classes and their skills while not messing up raiding.
[1] Raid encounters are probably designed the same way they are in WoW.
The developers build the encounter around existing Job abilities. They remove anything if it doesn't play well with specific Jobs. Damage and mechanics are designed to be beatable by existing Job abilities and such that each Job is as close as possible performance-wise.
As you can imagine, the more Jobs (and Job variations; which are from their point of view pretty much separate Jobs), the more they have to test the raid encounters against, the more simulations they have to run. -
07-31-2015, 09:38 AMKelgWhich is why I said skills could be adjusted for balance. Also, I know how bane works. You could use bio > bane, it's not much but still something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkendor
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07-31-2015, 11:35 AMGiantbanePretty sure hp returned by Life Surge gets capped at 10% of max hp or something like that, so the heal portion wouldn't be all that spectacular, even with Fel Cleave (guaranteed crit would be nice tho). Also flash isn't really necessary for WAR and it's useless on DRK.Quote:
Originally Posted by elemental10
Anyhow, it depends, sometimes it's nice to have interesting utility skills as long as they're good at something. I think it would actually be nice to have cleric stance if I'm using BLM/SMN. Even with the heal penalty, pretty sure you'd get more out of your Physick casts with INT/MND swapped. It'd be useless for bleeding edge raiding, but for solo use or saving a daily run if your healer has died? It could be a nice option to have.
I really wish they would expand the cross class system to allow a greater selection of skills for other jobs to utilize. They don't have to give every ability to every job, but right now it's too limited.