DPS class choice in PVP

So I made a post earlier about some pvp concerns and how I just got into it. Now iv been chugging along and am almost rank 20 starting from rank 0 the other day and have had lots of fun.

I have mainly been doing frontlines as war but have been thinking of maybe lvling another class mainly for pvp, However I have some question. As I said I have done it mainly as war and have had a blast holmgang alone makes it pretty much all the fun when someone is trying to sprint away and you chain them and reel them back into your team, But I have been thinking maybe something a bit more damg oriented and pretty much my thoughts were nin, mnk or blm.

My thoughts on each class are as followed.

Monk: seems like it might be the most fun my issues with it is given that 90% of its moves are positional and how frantic and the lag in pvp it seems like getting off most your moves might be a bit of a hassle.

Ninja: like monk but a bit more forgiving on the positions I would honestly still between the two rather play mnk am only considering nin over it since my nin is like lvl 55 and my mnk is like 40 and the aspect of stealth seems a bit meh in front lines given how much everyone is always running around and its not like in a game like wow where you could stealth behind a healer and 1-2 shot them or keep them locked up for utility while team wipes out front liners.

Black Mage: Now flat out I am not a huge fan of caster in PvE and even more so in PvP in any other game this was mainly just on the table given that they can stand back a bit more and the worry of the other classes such as mnk and nin running into the fray just to be swatted down in two hits since they wont have the same HP / Def CD's my war does kind of is a turn off.

Now im not looking for what one is the most OP im really just looking for info on the concerns of each one as to why they might not be so great in mass battles.

Currently this is my list of who is really good/Overpowered/broken in PvP Seize. This is just from me noticing who frequently gets battle high/fever or high scores in the scoreboard each game:

SMN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WAR >>> MCH (slightly better than melee) > MNK/NIN/DRG (all melee are about the same imo) >> BLM/BRD >> DRK (usually has a lot of deaths) > PLD (usually has a lot of deaths)

Whenever I see someone 20+ kills its usually a SMN, plus the frequency of them having battle high throughout the fight is much higher compared to other classes. SMN has the strongest burst execute and really can annoy multiple players at once. I get tri-disastered and I escape from the battlefield or a group of enemies, but I'm still taking 600 DMG per TICK! and I die. Warriors have good execute with Fell Cleave (I think Fell Cleaves can do about 1/4 of your total hp, 2600 DMG, for non tanks... really crazy), and good survivability with their healing moves. The melees play almost all the same (well DRG and NIN, never did MNK but I'm guessing it's the same type of playstyle), and scores vary dependent on your skill level. I never played tank classes in PvP so I'm going off the scoreboards for this one (Warriors usually have a couple of kills and 0-1 deaths, PLD's and DRK's I see frequently get 0-2 kills 4-6 deaths, it's probably because they "defend" the node but you really shouldn't be dying that much regardless...). MCH's have really good execute moves and can rack up kills, BLM might be good too (at lvl 50 they had very good burst - not sure how they do well with the new skills and how mobile you have to be in PvP) but I'll have to try it in Seize once I'm 60 on it, I'm not sure where to place BRD, but they usually have 0 impact on me, they don't stand out in the scoreboard, and I can't think of any good skills they have (except wide volley/rain of death for node disruptions)...


As for Healers, my preferred Healers on my team are:

SCH >> WHM >>>>>>> AST (I'm not sure why but these are the healers that I frequently kill the most).

SCH is great - super saving with lustrates, extra healing with fairy, annoying to kill and baits players...
WHM is just a good pick overall - good AoE heals and good regen moves
AST - I'm not sure what they do honestly, but they heal. If there are two choices of targets to kill and the other will get away, a WHM/SCH and a AST I always target the AST. I'm not sure why...maybe they have less survivability? Card buffs are rarely seen (well, in my opinion, but I barely pay attention to those card buffs in PvP) because PvP is just so unpredictable and fast (IMO it's like a Ninja using TRICK ATTACK on an enemy, very rarely does this happen).

But hell, with the overwhelming amount of DPS/Tanks, ANY HEALER is good!

AFAIK people use melee for Stun + LB because melee's LB almost instant kill.

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Originally Posted by ScarletCrusader

Currently this is my list of who is really good/Overpowered/broken in PvP Seize. This is just from me noticing who frequently gets battle high/fever or high scores in the scoreboard each game:

SMN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WAR >>> MCH (slightly better than melee) > MNK/NIN/DRG (all melee are about the same imo) >> BLM/BRD >> DRK (usually has a lot of deaths) > PLD (usually has a lot of deaths)

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I figured Blm would be the strongest, Maybe not the highest kills but every frontline I have done the top 3-4 spots in damg done has been from them I dont really look at kills since its just whoever got the last hit so tech a whm could get lucky and rack up 10+ kills just from having a dot or lucky hit killing people off when someone else deals 90% of the damg I know in terms of SMN that's most of the time how I die when in retreat and I have dots on me that tick away my last few hundred HP more so then them bursting me from 100-0.

but either way I was looking for a response from people who play the listed class in terms of the concerns more so then what one is the strongest, I dont mind if I am not the overpowered class more so what one is the most fun. id rather play a class that I enjoy and is meh over one that can insta gib people but I find boring (that being my issue with trying out blm) my main concerns are I just dont wanna play something that's more frustrating then fun (IE: trying to get positional off on mnk)

Ya I added more info in terms of why they are strong. Also did not read the end of your OP til after I wrote my post. You'd probably like a ranged better in this case, since all melees have positionals (or try WAR) . MCH maybe, since BLM's gets really frustrating with mobility and cast interruption (either u get hit or theyre too far), and SMN seems to overpowered for you. MCH I think is a good pick as they're pretty fun ( you can prep your shots to do massive burst damage) and come with a bunch of CC.

Once MNKs stop sucking, people will realize that SMN isn't all that bad. Def still need to be careful of them, but it's not like they don't have a hard counter that WARs lack.

As a Bard you have a hardtime if someone catches you and you will mostlikly die in stunlog.
But if you can hit and run and sniper some kills with farshoot you are perfectly fine.
And you can bombard people from above when you are protecting points.
Iam usually in the top 5 Dmg dealt with my Bard.

As far as healers go:

SCH > AST >= WHM

SCH:
Scholar is always going to be the most obnoxious to try and deal with due to the lolfairy that can simply prevent you from dying almost always, as well as the fact that they bring a shit ton of emergency buttons that can save the day. The problem is that their PvP skills suck, Aura Blast is useless as shit.

AST:
Astrologian actually has found a nice niche in PvP, and honestly, this is where Noct Sect actually becomes useful. The get a nice instant cooldown button and instant cast adloquiums, as well as light speed that pretty much ensures that they can sustain themselves or any party with relative ease due to no wait timer on casting spells. Plus, enhanced Balance on someone with battle fever is insane. Retrogradation is also pretty insane, as it removes buffs on enemies, removes debuffs on party members, heals, and damages at the same time.

WHM:
White Mage is still very much viable, but they lack good cooldowns to save themselves in dire situations. Tetra is nice but it's honestly the only thing they have, as Benediction has a ridiculous cooldown that makes it unreliable. Assize + Asylum are nice but you move around too much in PvP for them to be too entirely useful. They do have Sacred Prism though, which can honestly render any melee useless for a good while, as it negates 40% of all melee damage.

I played monk alot in 2.xx and switched to NIN for 3.0 so I'll talk about that. I feel a lot more squishy on ninja. Monk with fists of earth, second wind (enhanced), recuperate and bloodbath can be a pretty frighting target to face in any situation. The biggest drawback I find with ninja is the stealth can be limited in mass battles. If you engage an enemy and don't kill them outright you won't be able to get out of combat to restealth for some time but its still a fun mechanic and has its moments of glory.

Went to a node next to a choke point as SMN as new ones were about to spawn along with a ninja who cloaked. So great, smart ninja I'm thinking, if a solo melee comes along to gank me, the NIN can help with that. The next to us pops and I interact with it to claim it as a lone dragoon is headed our way. Perfect opportunity. Except the Ninja un looks and ALSO interacts with podium because they wanted to try for the achievement I guess. I get stun locked and killed by the dragoon, almost had them but their jumps and stuns got me and the stupid useless ninja was no help at all. Ninja's stealth can be great in some situations, but not if an idiot player wastes it on opportunity like that. They mislead me by cloaking next to me and had me thinking they would actually stealth attack a lone player if they came our way.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

As far as healers go:

SCH > AST >= WHM

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This sounds more about right than the previous mention about healer viability. Do not underestimate an AST in Noct stance; 2 opponents can have a hard time bringing it down, 1 lone opponent won't even dent one without help from a LB (and I grow quite amused at any lone DPS' attempt to).

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Scholar is always going to be the most obnoxious to try and deal with due to the lolfairy that can simply prevent you from dying almost always, as well as the fact that they bring a shit ton of emergency buttons that can save the day. The problem is that their PvP skills suck, Aura Blast is useless as shit.

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I don't play SCH in favor of SMN, but don't SCH's Aura Blast knock-back everything around them? That's been really dangerous @ the heliodrome in Secure and Slaughter, and there are a few tomeliths in Seize that are elevated and can potentially push enemies off. And an extra instant AoE ability can help hold a tomelith you're defending for a few extra precious seconds.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

I don't play SCH in favor of SMN, but don't SCH's Aura Blast knock-back everything around them? That's been really dangerous @ the heliodrome in Secure and Slaughter, and there are a few tomeliths in Seize that are elevated and can potentially push enemies off. And an extra instant AoE ability can help hold a tomelith you're defending for a few extra precious seconds.

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It does, but my point was more in relation to Seize than Secure or Slaughter, as nobody plays either of those two modes anymore. It did have some use as you stated, but even then, most of the time you had to time it right for it to be useful. In Seize, it's pretty much useless. Knocking people back for two seconds doesn't do anything enough to prevent them from stopping you from taking a point, for example.

OP, NIN may be right for you. Though really once you're experienced with any melee class in PvP, you can do them all - it's just a matter of learning the different burst rotations for each. NIN doesn't have Fetter Ward - which if you go MNK route - you will get spoiled by.

BLM has never been a godgift at PVP, just in 72Slaughter they got their day in the sun.

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Originally Posted by TheWaywardWind

In Seize, it's pretty much useless. Knocking people back for two seconds doesn't do anything enough to prevent them from stopping you from taking a point, for example.

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Well, offensively, not usually, no. But defensively it not only interrupts enemies from stealing your tomelith but if you're on a elevated area with a tomelith (there are quite a few), it can potentially push enemies off the platform. Just today I seen a BRD Blast Shot multiple people off the elevated tomelith on the arch just outside of the northern camp; I'm sure Aura Blast would've achieved the same results. Also such abilities can be helpful for any teammates who already have a second or two interacting with a tomelith for the neutral/steal, not necessarily used just to prevent enemies from stopping yourself from stealing. Pretty sure it can interrupt casting and LBs as well.

So I respectfully disagree. I think Aura Blast still has strategic uses and as a AST/WHM/SMN I would have personally preferred that ability many times over Aetheric Burst.

high mobility classes like BRD,SMN,SCH will do better in seal rock i reckon. I mainly do SCH or SMN and find that they are most easy to play.

SMN: with its arsenal of instant cast: Painflare, Deathflare, BioII, RuinII, Energy Surge offers much damage and mobility.
SCH: lustrate - OP

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Originally Posted by Cidel

So I respectfully disagree. I think Aura Blast still has strategic uses and as a AST/WHM/SMN I would have personally preferred that ability many times over Aetheric Burst.

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Chances are the people who are trying to take your monolith are bound to be interrupted anyway, so Aura Blast isn't some miraculous game changer that's going to somehow stop someone from taking a monolith where other moves have failed. I mean, you literally just have to tap the person on the shoulder to stop them. The blasting away affect just sends them off for a bit before they comeback anyway.

Knocking people off would be different if it actually provided some manner of truly deterring an opponent; in secure and slaughter you killed someone using it, meaning it was dangerous to be around a scholar. In seize all it does is knock you off a small cliff and deal a little damage before they storm right back up and attack you again anyway. Sure, it can deal a 1k damage or so, but chances are if they're attacking in force they're bound to get healed again anyway, and if you're 1v1 you're never going to kill them to begin with.

It's use is not nearly as great as it once was. Retrogradation and Sacred Prism are both far, far, far better PvP abilities than aura blast is.

if you have to pick between only the 3 listed classes i would say that BLM has the highest impact because of CC/range/ability to survive while NIN probably has the most fun toys.

Re aura blast- how useful it is depends on which tome you're at. I use it to help capture vs to defend a few seconds longer, when it can be used to throw a small cluster of people off a node they control that's on a small high point that takes a bit to get back up onto, and I can claim it before they have a chance to reach it again. Side benefit, I did that a couple of days ago, and surprisingly it was high enough a Paladin died from the fall. Even better, it was a lalafell kill and those are the most fun kind to kill of all.

aura blast is great, I love aoe pushback with bind

Push back is great for assaulting elevated points I.e knock one of their healers down to the bottom, straight into your team. There's only one point you can take someone full hp to 0 beach point. It still has its uses, however one game I almost lost the plot at this pld....flat ground sshoulder tackle a smn } lb....pld knocks back the zmn