Law Upgrade items need a price reduction on larger servers (Long Explanation)

This is not a complaint thread, this is just my opinion on the state of upgrading gear with law to get 180 gear on larger servers:

I really would like to know......for hunts it would cost you around 3000 seals to fully upgrade your armor to 180 with a average A rank giving you 40 seals per kill and S ranks giving 100 plus you have your weekly that gives 100 and a daily hunt log for a weekly total of around 1400. So in one week you only would have to do your complete daily hunts, and then kill maybe 40 A ranks and S ranks on average to get the rest which is pretty balanced if you make it to hunts on time or if your like me on a high pop server by the time you even join the PF group the mob is already dead.....then hunts arent very viable other than your personal B ranks or lower.

Second option is now we have the same item to upgrade which cost 900 law for the 180 weapon which even with your dailies from dungeons that would be 2 days. Then you have the armor which cost 700 law per piece with accessories costing 400 for a grand total of 7000 law tomestones you need for a full 180 upgrade which equal out to if you did you daily bonus of 250 for 7 days which equals out to 1700 law per week from bonus which if you just did that including the one time level 60 dungeon of 80 per day you get a weekly amount of 2200 average tomestones of law per week. With it costing you 7000 law tomestones it would take you nearly 3 weeks to complete a set to 180 compared to maybe one week if you did nothing but your daily hunts and find a hunt party in PF killing nothing but A ranks and S ranks.

So bottomline......I do belong to several hunt LS which players call out but by the time most players arrive at the A or S ranks it is already dead 90% of the time. I also recently transfered to Behemoth server from Goblin which is a way smaller population which hunts are more easily accessable. But now that I am on Behemoth my only option is to farm dungeons for law to upgrade my gear which takes 3 times as long farming doing nothing but the same dungeons over and over again. Before you post on here saying that its a grind fest of a game...I already have my full set of 180 tank gear from before I xfered to my new server which took me honestly 6 days from my personal hunts and hunt parties in which I already have another 2 sets of law gear for monk and summoner, so I have done a large grind already (I also have 6 jobs to 60...so please do not say that I am not willing to do the work which my efforts prove that I have and that I am).

Please SE, balance this gearing issue for upgrades on larger servers to balance it out towards other servers in which you have less of a population on these server in which hunts are more accessible to them compared to larger populated servers.

Not even sure what this post is trying to say.
I stop hunts weeks ago and not even farming law and been capped more then once without having anything to use it on. To easy getting law.

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Originally Posted by Picori

Not even sure what this post is trying to say.
I stop hunts weeks ago and not even farming law and been capped more then once without having anything to use it on. To easy getting law.

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They are saying getting law to 180 needs to be more easy

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Originally Posted by SakuraMidori

They are saying getting law to 180 needs to be more easy

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Not easier....more balanced. On larger servers, most S and A ranks are harder to get to since everyone zergs them to them point its dead within 1 minute any LS calls it out......but on low pop servers hunts have less of a zerg fest and take longer to kill hence faster seals to upgrade.

Done only about half dozen hunts and thats being generous, did the daily hunts and the weekly mark, and when they added being able to buy upgrade items with Law, finished upgrading my second jobs Law gear to 180. Stop wanting everything in one day and learn a little patience. Otherwise deal with the toxicity that is involved with A and S rank hunts.

Some will get stuff faster than you, deal with it and stop caring what others have.

Or, instead of waiting for everyone else to find the marks and then hearing it 2nd, 3rd or more hand. Go out their and activelly hunt using the website that shows when marks are in their spawn window. As it sounds like all you are doing is waiting for someone else to find it then tell you where to go, Then you wonder why you miss it?

I hardly ever hit up hunts unless I'm seriously bored. If I'm in the area and one turns up there, I usually go unless I'm in the middle of something and it's on the opposite side of the map. Other than that, I only get off my lazy butt for S ranks. I've managed to fully upgrade two classes using mostly daily and weekly hunt marks.

It sounds like on the bigger servers, if you're not part of one of the groups who are actively hunting an A-Rank or S-Rank in an area, you don't get to do that A-Rank or S-Rank because they won't wait for you to show up. That's perfectly understandable: Why should they wait for someone who wasn't actively helping them hunt if they already have the firepower to down the target?

Yes, I'm a bit of a hypocrite here, in that I will say something about early pulls on my server, but I have helped hunt stuff a time or 2, and know it works both ways.

--Erim Nelhah
(Master, Astral Descendants <AD>, Malboro)
(60 DRK Main)

Man I wish my server could fight A-S rank hunts without being a zerg-fest.

Or you know, instead of getting all your upgrade items using Centuro Seals, get them with Law as well.

I play on Excalibur an extremely high pop server. I don't really understand what the issue is. I don't have any hunt LS and only go after A and S ranks if they happen to be calling them out in the zone when I'm there. My main job is i187 and I am constantly capped on the HW seals to the point where even after getting upgraded weapons for multiple jobs (many of which aren't even close to level 60). I have full 180 Vit accessories and full 180 str accessories as well as a full set of left side i180 tank gear and 5 upgraded law weapons. I consider myself a hardcore casual player (hard core mindset with casual play time). On any given day I usually only log in for about 1 hr (long enough to do daily hunt and expert).

Why do you feel that the rates for upgrade items should be lowered? Do you really have that many jobs at level 60 that you need to gear that utilize different gearsets? With the Ravana Ex weapon available, the esoteric gear, the alexander normal drops why are you even bothering with law items any more? Even for alts i170 is more than enough to easily clear all content with the exception of savage coil while you work on drops. If anything I would say that currently its too easy to get gear. But that's just me.

And once again it seems like people are oblivious to the fact that you DO NOT HAVE TO kill S and A ranks to gain centurio seals, theres a daily and a weekly mob thats all yours.

Unfortuanly everyone wants to max out their centurio and upgrades RIGHT NOW which is why people are complaining.

You can buy them with law tomes now.

Kind of expensive, but go do that.

The population problem has been a continuous thorn in the development teams back from what I've seen. The housing market suffers the same kind of issue as we got FCs and the ultra rich competing for plots. There's basically nothing left to purchase, and anything new they release will be eaten up fairly quickly. Hunts during peak hours on Balmung are a nightmare since people will pull either early, or someone has been already waiting for ages and then pulls, leaving latecomers out in the rain. Heck, we got LSes that basically hate one another and part of the reason involves the pulling of hunts.

... or increase the health scaling.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The population problem has been a continuous thorn in the development teams back from what I've seen. The housing market suffers the same kind of issue as we got FCs and the ultra rich competing for plots. There's basically nothing left to purchase, and anything new they release will be eaten up fairly quickly. Hunts during peak hours on Balmung are a nightmare since people will pull either early, or someone has been already waiting for ages and then pulls, leaving latecomers out in the rain. Heck, we got LSes that basically hate one another and part of the reason involves the pulling of hunts.

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This is exactly what I am talking about.......

I cannot believe people are defending the price's of upgrade items with Law tomes. Let me throw you a couple comparison's to show how stupid it is:

1,300 Poetics(at the time) to obtain an i120 weapon. Now, you can choose to upgrade the weapon via FCoB, or the weekly CT/ST/WoD quest, OR.....you can spend 2,000 Poetics for the upgrade item. ....wait...........what?

Real world example! You go to the store to buy a new set of tires for your 30,000 dollar car. The store charges 60,000 dollars for a set of tires. Yep, your being charged double the price just to upgrade your tires, then it cost for the actual car.

.....people are defending this? Really?!

......../headdesk

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The population problem has been a continuous thorn in the development teams back from what I've seen.

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for the housing it's them fault! for player it was easy to create an instanced system, instead to drop the ball hard and make the FC share the plot with the player. that was an error from them side. on high popultion server you have about 4000-5000 character, not all will want a house that true, but do you really think that the small number of plot was enough? especially while sharing with the FC? it was a dumb move!
the hunt is the same trouble, they believe that player will be fair and nice and will share a small number of monster.... i think a loot of the dev team need to get out of japan and see how the world work.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

... or increase the health scaling.

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you do realize that health scaling will solve nothing? right? no i'm asking because i feel people are more desillusional than the dev team on this point.

let's see why it will never happend, for FATE system the scaling work for the next fate, it adapt the difficulty of the FATE for match the previous one. why? because it's not possible to do it directly. why? because it will put soo much pressure on the server to analyze the number of people involved in the fight and modify the hp.

worst, if you begin a fight a 8 for a rank A (what it's normally the norm for this sort of monster) you reach 10% of hp of the monster when suddenly a large zerg arrive and the hp adapte to that arrival.... how it will work? do the monster will stay at 10% or do it will be back to full life?

that not the only trouble, even if it keep the 10% hp, how the zerg will get enough credit?

the hp scalling is a band aid, barelly a solution! you have no way to make the hunt work perfectly. outside brainwash the whole mankind for change them greed and envy and jealousy. this system is naive and unfair.... it need to be changed drastically, since day 1.... it did never work as intended, since at start (for people that did forget) :

- Rank B: was means for solo player
- Rank A: for team of 4 player
- Rank S: for a team of 16+ player.

wake up it can't work whatever they do!

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

I cannot believe people are defending the price's of upgrade items with Law tomes. Let me throw you a couple comparison's to show how stupid it is:

1,300 Poetics(at the time) to obtain an i120 weapon. Now, you can choose to upgrade the weapon via FCoB, or the weekly CT/ST/WoD quest, OR.....you can spend 2,000 Poetics for the upgrade item. ....wait...........what?

Real world example! You go to the store to buy a new set of tires for your 30,000 dollar car. The store charges 60,000 dollars for a set of tires. Yep, your being charged double the price just to upgrade your tires, then it cost for the actual car.

.....people are defending this? Really?!

......../headdesk

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Im capped on law tomes, have been for ages. have 2 full i180 sets. i suppose i could upgrade my bards gear, but its not even 60 yet.

Why are you complaining? Law is easy to get.

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

1,300 Poetics(at the time) to obtain an i120 weapon. Now, you can choose to upgrade the weapon via FCoB, or the weekly CT/ST/WoD quest, OR.....you can spend 2,000 Poetics for the upgrade item. ....wait...........what?

Real world example! You go to the store to buy a new set of tires for your 30,000 dollar car. The store charges 60,000 dollars for a set of tires. Yep, your being charged double the price just to upgrade your tires, then it cost for the actual car.

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Poor example. Unlike Poetics, Law tomes don't have a weekly cap and they're far more abundant. Your real world example also makes little sense. You need the tires to operate the vehicle. You don't need to upgrade your Law weapon before you're able to use it. A better example would be paying another 60k to upgrade your car to the next best model.

And you don't have to stick with just one currency to upgrade your equipment. Buy whatever item you want with whichever of the two currencies you reach the requisite amount with first, use the other currency on the next token. Rinse and repeat. At least you have the option of an alternate route now versus only being able to obtain the items via hunts before.

At least we don't have to use reagan peppers to upgrade gear. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Im capped on law tomes, have been for ages. have 2 full i180 sets. i suppose i could upgrade my bards gear, but its not even 60 yet.

Why are you complaining? Law is easy to get.

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....because it's stupid? It was easier and faster to get the upgrade items before you could spend Law on them.

People amaze me. Some times I think Yoshi/SE could send some of you a box of dog turds with an FF themed ribbon on it and you'd be happy you got it.

Upgrades from LAW are a law dump .. plain and simple. Its not the ideal way to upgrade your gear .. its just a dump for excess law stones. I find Law easy as hell to get, its like soldiery tokens from 2.0 ... eventually your swimming in them with nothing to buy .. this time they gave us a dump, sure its kinda expensive if you choose to only use law as your upgrade path, thats your choice though. Doing the daily hunt board kills will net you enough seals to upgrade a full set in about 3 weeks. If you want to upgrade faster, Hunt or dump law into it. i dont see the issue here .. you have choices and a few paths to upgrade. Choose how to do it, mix and match, focus on an area whatever .. your choice.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

And you don't have to stick with just one currency to upgrade your equipment. Buy whatever item you want with whichever of the two currencies you reach the requisite amount with first, use the other currency on the next token. Rinse and repeat. At least you have the option of an alternate route now versus only being able to obtain the items via hunts before.

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....you get law tomes from doing Hunts, which also give you the Centurio seals. Your going to use seals to upgrade because it's cheaper and faster, while using those Law tomes for armor pieces for other jobs.

Do not sit there and tell me you'd actually opt for the longer, more expensive upgrade path. Just don't.

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

....you get law tomes from doing Hunts, which also give you the Centurio seals. Your going to use seals to upgrade because it's cheaper and faster, while using those Law tomes for armor pieces for other jobs.

Do not sit there and tell me you'd actually opt for the longer, more expensive upgrade path. Just don't.

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For me personally your right, I buy gear for other jobs with excess law. For people who only play one or two jobs ... excess law being used to buy upgrade's is heaven sent. Don't assume everyone plays the way you do, with many jobs.

Law being used to buy upgrades is an option .. not a requirement. You can still do the same thing, buy alt job's gear with law and use hunt seals for upgrades. No one is forcing you to use law on upgrades. Having options and choices is good.

I haven't done many a or s ranks since he and I've managed to get my SMN fully law upgraded and so far my other 60 with the weapon and some accessories law upgraded with just using daily and weekly hunts. So I don't see what the complaint is all about.

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Originally Posted by Akei

For me personally your right, I buy gear for other jobs with excess law. For people who only play one or two jobs ... excess law being used to buy upgrade's is heaven sent. Don't assume everyone plays the way you do, with many jobs.

Law being used to buy upgrades is an option .. not a requirement. You can still do the same thing, buy alt job's gear with law and use hunt seals for upgrades. No one is forcing you to use law on upgrades. Having options and choices is good.

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Do not misunderstand: I don't have a problem with using Law tomes to buy the upgrade items; I think that is a great addition. The cost in Law tomes to purchase the upgrade items is the problem, there is no valid reason an upgrade item should cost more then the armor itself. The price in Centurio seals and Law tomes for the upgrade items should be identical, not one double the cost of another.

That is my issue.

Group up with people actively looking for Hunts, most will tell the group itself before broadcasting it to make sure everyone in the group will be able to get there in time.
I've spend whole days in hunting parties jumping from zone to zone looking for hunts. Was almost the only way to get to a hunt in time, unless you played late at night when half the server is sleeping.

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

Do not misunderstand: I don't have a problem with using Law tomes to buy the upgrade items; I think that is a great addition. The cost in Law tomes to purchase the upgrade items is the problem, there is no valid reason an upgrade item should cost more then the armor itself. The price in Centurio seals and Law tomes for the upgrade items should be identical, not one double the cost of another.

That is my issue.

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The problem is Law tomes are substantially easier to get than Centurio seals. They can't be the same price or else people would stop doing hunts and only grind Law. This is supposed to be an alternative (or maybe supplement would be a better word), not a replacement. You may argue that the prices are too high, but considering how the game throws Law at you hand-over-fist I still fail to see how this is a big deal.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

The problem is Law tomes are substantially easier to get than Centurio seals. They can't be the same price or else people would stop doing hunts and only grind Law. This is supposed to be an alternative (or maybe supplement would be a better word), not a replacement. You may argue that the prices are too high, but considering how the game throws Law at you hand-over-fist I still fail to see how this is a big deal.

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....don't you get roughly the same amount of tomes as seals from Hunts? Which is faster and easier then doing roulettes/other things for them? AND you can do Daily Marks to obtain them?

This point is invalid: obtaining either Law tomes or Centurio Seals is equally easy/quick.

110 Seals from dailies, 100 from weekly - 810 per week which will get you:

1 weapon + 1 armor + 115 left over (or get an hive weapon instead)
or
5 accessoires + 60 left over
or:
2 armor + 210 left over

+ all seals you get from the hunts you do not miss. So, ask yourself - do you NEED all those jobs equipped right now because you WANT to raid (read: do Alex Savage) with them? (Because if you don't raid, even i170 law gear is plenty)

I mean, there needs to be a way to keep people playing - sub fees is what brings the money. If people stopped playing after 4 weeks because they equipped every class they got.... how many would be left playing? >.>

A mix of Law tomes and Daily Centurio grind should be plenty to equip classes. And if you really miss too many hunts - try active hunt LSes. 6 of my 8 LS slots are for the Hunt. Teach people what a <flag> command is and realize that Hunt mobs that are called out with their name in an LS are most likely dead before you arrive because the person has to stand in front of it or have a macro for every single huntmob.

Besides that - Good Luck - or patience, whatever comes to you easier ('-')/


P.S.: Before 3.0 you needed 56 mark logs (or 28000 Seals minus those that dropped) per class - now you need less (if you didnt get a single log drop) for all classes then before for a single one plus you get more per dailies then you did before

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Originally Posted by Ayanno

....don't you get roughly the same amount of tomes as seals from Hunts? Which is faster and easier then doing roulettes/other things for them? AND you can do Daily Marks to obtain them?

This point is invalid: obtaining either Law tomes or Centurio Seals is equally easy/quick.

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You have a greater potential for more Law tomes than Centurio seals over the same span of time, or at the very least the flow of Law is a lot more reliable than Centurio. You can spam your roulette for Law back-to-back all you want with your role being the limiting factor in how quickly you get queues (and I guess hoping you get a halfway decent group). Your ability to spam hunts depends on respawn timers and your ability to reach the target on time to obtain full credit. At least on my server there are often huge gaps between batches of hunts (and targets often being pulled "early") so even considering DPS queue times I tended to get tomes faster than seals.

Three words: Clan Hunt Board.

Every day you can get 110 Seals. Plus the 100 from the Weekly rank B.

It's been a couple weeks and now I'm sitting at 500 seals with nothing to do with them. I've started buying upgrade items for gear for alts I can't even use yet.