Reading many posts here and on Reddit, the general consensus is that new DRK mains are former tank mains. Many DPS (or healers) that level DRK will get it to 60, dabble with it for a while, and be done with it. However there is a small percent of the population, like myself, that leveled both PLD/WAR, and ran EX Primals/Coil Turns (maybe not all), to get a good feel of tanking in the excitement for DRK (as a DPS main!). This turned out harder than expected because 3.0 has been amazingly good to SMN's. Both the new skills, and AF2 set really gives SMN the love it needed a long time coming (this is not even counting pet glamour's coming up). I always enjoyed tanking, it's just something I did on the side, along with healing since I started out a Thaumaturge, and my first 50 was Summoner. So, although I always aim to play optimum level, and be the best in any role, I am a DPS player.
However, DRK was my dream job. I have always been into badass, evil looking things in fantasy (in Skyrim my favorite play style was Conjuring and letting my summons do my bidding lol). I like fast action, flashiness, and power. DRK delivered especially after getting Plunge at level 54 (yeah the job could use some tweaks though). My top jobs to decide on main in 3.0 are DRK/SMN/BLM/MNK.
The point to this story is to thank SE for changing things up and making different roles appealing. Imagine if Red Mage turned out to be a healer, or Blue Mage a tank instead of DPS. SE should do this more often. The reason being is, this attracts certain tastes to other roles. For example, I love healing, however, I'm not fond of the SCH using "fairies" or WHM having this nun-more female friendly (like AST) look. Please don't misunderstand. I love the play styles! But, look/theme is a HUUUUGE factor for me. I had an evil demon look as a Sorcery Healer in DC Universe online. SE, don't try to shoe horn a certain aesthetic to a role. Make it varied! Another reason why I decided a change in 3.0 was because I got tired of all the robes as a mage. Robes everywhere. It restricts glamour options. One of the hardest things to do was try to look like a badass as a healer. My best was a "pope" holy look which got played out with Ishgard's introduction.
As much as I love SMN (remembers the MP/itemization FCoB progression days), it is time for a change with me. I am most likely going to main DRK. I already enjoy Lv50 DRK compared to Lv50 SMN. Anyways, enough ranting. Thanks SE and consider shaking it up! :)
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07-25-2015, 03:58 PMFatshineThanks SE for making DRK a Tank - Minority Appreciation + Suggestions!
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07-25-2015, 04:02 PMKaedrianLiang
The Fray part of DRK is so delicious. A story i will remember forever.
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07-25-2015, 04:19 PMOnikimaruFray is everything i wish i could be...Quote:
Originally Posted by KaedrianLiang
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07-25-2015, 04:59 PMAllyrion
I'm kind of similar.
I've tried the other tanking Jobs before, even leveled them to 50 on an alt. But I never really go into it.
PLD was boring to me and WAR didn't fit for some reason either.
But I mained a DPS for the most part, particularly because I like how melee play in this game more than in others.
I gave DRK a chance, because it looked great and the mechanics sounded interesting (I heard good things about the Job quests as well).
As soon as I picked it up, I realized it was a Tank I could play. I've played tanks in other games, and there's some I can or can't play....just like dps.
People act like adding a new tank will just shift around the current Tank population. I really disagree.
Sure not everyone is willing to tank. But the more Job options you have, the more likely one will appeal to someone where the other Jobs wouldn't.
Not everyone who likes DRG likes MNK or NIN. Same can be said for any of them.
They're all melee, but each has different appeals that attract different players (and, of course, some players will appreciate all).
Dps mains who switch to tanking also get a bad rep.
I get why because I see most really don't change their mindset to understand they've got a different role.
So I can't really argue that, but I think that's inevitable and just growing pains.
Some will give up, and most of those Flavor-of-the-month rerolls have moved on.
There will be people who don't have any tanking experience before picking up DRK, that will stick around and learn to appreciate their new role.
I switched to DRK main for my static's sake.
But I'm glad they made DRK a tank, because I just wouldn't have done it if WAR/PLD were the only options.
I already knew what it means to be a tank and what it feels like, but just being a tank isn't the only thing.
The rotation, visuals, resource mechanics, theme....they all make a Job what it is just as much as the role, just like the differences between DPS Jobs.
Tanking is an acquired taste, sure.
But I mean that literally. I think a lot more people can acquire the taste for tanking, even when it doesn't start that way.
You just sometimes need to give them incentive to open themselves to its appeal.
Like the OP, who liked the theme and visuals of the Job enough to learn the role.
I know there's more like people like that than anyone gives credit for.
Rather, those who complain just want them to release DPS Jobs, giving people options within their comfort zone so they can continue to ignore any true insight with the other roles they're partying with.
I'm glad SE's not such an Enabler. -
07-25-2015, 05:01 PMRaxiaz
How are you able to post more than 1000 characters at a time?!
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07-25-2015, 05:02 PMAllyrionYou can edit it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxiaz
Most just cut before the 1k limit and then paste the rest in by editing. -
07-25-2015, 05:45 PMRaxiaz
That's really weird...
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07-25-2015, 06:52 PMDuelleDepends on your frame of reference. Other MMOs have used the darkness/evil/shadow knight archetype as a tank. Dark Avengers in Lineage II, Shadow Knights in Everquest and Death Knights in WoW come to mind, so at the simplest level DRK being a tank isn't unnatural.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshine
As I've said before, what makes DRK different from DKs and Shadow Knights and Dark Avengers was that the job historically drained their own HP to deal damage. Even ignoring FFXI's version of the job, the first thing that comes to mind is "wait, this thing makes itself more likely to die by nature, so how is that going to work for a tank?".
You could also abstain from using AF gear or glamour a look that appeals to you. I'm not a fan of robes, so the one thing that caused me to level a mage in WoW was, incidentally, transmogrification. I picked a vest + pants set and literally mogged my gear leveling that mage to 85. If I chose to main a mage here I would probably do the same.Quote:
For example, I love healing, however, I'm not fond of the SCH using "fairies" or WHM having this nun-more female friendly (like AST) look. Please don't misunderstand. I love the play styles! But, look/theme is a HUGE factor for me.
This part sort of needs its own thread. I can agree that the jobs were pigeonholed into a certain look with this expansion, and the gear added is not as varied as it was during ARR. I can only hope they ease up on the restrictions, because really, mages shouldn't be restricted to robes and only robes. Tunics and plain shirts would be welcome, I'd think. Normal pants and boots/shoes as well. I'd probably play on the nobleman look seen all over Ishgard and let BLMs emulate this, for example (yes, that's the wizard class from Granado Espada).Quote:
SE, don't try to shoe horn a certain aesthetic to a role. Make it varied! Another reason why I decided a change in 3.0 was because I got tired of all the robes as a mage. Robes everywhere.
Bite your tongue. >.>Quote:
Imagine if Red Mage turned out to be a healer
We did enough of that in FFXI and don't need a repeat. -
07-26-2015, 05:28 AMFatshine
^We need a manly healer lol, but nice insight
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07-26-2015, 05:30 AMTwiliteDid that crap for 10 years. No way I'm doing it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
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07-26-2015, 05:36 AMFatshineNext dps announced....Red Mage! Lol, my point was just we need a much different style healer. Something more manly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilite
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07-26-2015, 06:08 AMSvalitz
Yes THANK YOU.
I am so in love with this job.
I started as DRG, then eventually was maining PLD in 2.0 because I like being "in charge" hahaha. But I always felt like something was missing... PLD was just a little too easy and boring, but tanking was my calling. WAR was more fun, but I'm very superficial and the "look" just didn't do it for me... I wanted something with a little more panache and class. WAR is great, but it's too clunky / brutish for my dainty self lol.
Now with DRK I enjoy every minute... the playstyle is a game within itself, and FINALLY we get more offensive moves and quite a variety of abilities when you consider Dark Arts. Plus it's sexy to look at and flashy as hell.
So yes, THANK YOU SE. THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE SEXIEST (looking) TANK YET. -
07-26-2015, 01:11 PMDuelleNot sure about manly, but I can think of two starting points. Mystic (designed as a "life & death" mage) and Geomancer (designed around shamanistic aesthetics). Not your standard tree-hugger healers, but instead more...aggressive. Like Mystic could have spells that have healing effects or damaging effects depending on the stance active.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshine
Geomancer could be built around manipulating nature (as opposed to coaxing its power like CNJ does). One idea I had was that the Geomancer would be able to create a cloud that rains healing water on one ally, but using an ability that causes the cloud the release lightning on to nearby enemies. -
07-26-2015, 03:03 PMKaedan
Cecil was a DRK in FF4, and he was the closest thing to a tank in a single player game (High HP, High defense). Gafgarion from FF:T is essentially the same type of DRK as we now have (high HP, high defense, steal MP). Leon from FF2 was similar to Cecil, being the closest thing to tank single player games have.
Having a DRK be a tank isn't exactly "changing it up" or anything out of the ordinary. I suppose if you only ever played FFXI and expected DRK to be DD it might be a little surprising.
In any case, I'm happy DRK is a tank. I'm just hoping that DRK being a tank doesn't hurt chances of Samurai being a tank. I want to play Samurai, but I will be less than thrilled if it's DPS... much prefer it it's a tank when it eventually comes out. -
07-26-2015, 03:42 PMFatshineThere needs to be a dps with a sword though :( But man, the amount of people that will switch to Samurai if it's a dps will be staggering.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaedan
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07-26-2015, 06:22 PMDuelle
Well, since the OP got the wheels in my head turning, here's a geomancer concept I just made up:
Geomancer
For countless generations, the nomadic tribes of the New World have relied on the insight and wisdom of their shamen and spirit walkers. These respected individuals draw forth the power of the elements to aid and guide their people as they wander the endless plains.
Unlike their Eorzean counterparts, these so-called Geomancers are not focused on harmony between the elements and mortals. They instead bend the elements to their will to fortify their tribes' warriors and provide succor to the sick and needy.
Concept: Healer that uses the elements to heal and bolster their allies while wreaking havoc on their enemies.
Weapon: Ceremonial Club (2-handed)
Cross Classes: Arcanist, Thaumaturge.
Abilities
01 Magma Burst - Deals fire-aspected damage with a potency of X.
02 Healing Surge - Restores HP. Cure potency: X.
04 Tremor - Deals earth-aspected damage with a potency of X. Additional effect: Weight for 9 seconds.
06 Primal Attunement - Use of healing spells restore MP. Critical heals restore twice the amount of MP. 15 second duration. 60 second cooldown.
08 Ancestral Bulwark - Increases the physical and magical defense of all party members within range of target for 30 mins. Does not stack with Protect.
10 Healing Mist - Restores HP over time to target and allies in range. Cure potency: 45. 12 second duration.
12 Purify - Removes one status ailment from target ally.
15 Defibrillation - Revives one ally in a weakened state.
18 Realignment - Swaps current INT and MND attribute ratings, while increasing potency of attack spells by 10% and reducing potency of healing spells by 20%. Effect ends upon reuse.
22 Elemental Focus - Makes your next spell cast a guaranteed critical hit. 45 second cooldown.
26 Healing Wave - Restores HP. Cure potency: X. Additional effect: Heal over time effect to allies near target for 15 seconds.
30 Rain Cloud - Places a rain cloud over target ally that restores HP over time. Cure potency: 50. 21 second duration. Can only be active on one target.
34 Molten Earth - Binds target for 10 seconds (PvP: 5 seconds). Upon expiring, deals fire-aspected damage with a potency of 50. Deals no damage if the bind effect is resisted.
38 Earthen Wall - Creates a shield with a value equal to 10% of target's max HP for 60 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 10% while active. Can only be active on one target.
42 Tail Winds - Increases Spell Speed and the chance of Critical Heals by 25%. 10 second duration. 45 second cooldown.
46 Squall - Deals wind-aspected damage with a potency of X. Additional effect: Knockback. 30 second cooldown.
50 Lava Geyser - Deals fire-aspected damage with a potency of X to target and enemies nearby. Additional effect: damage over time (30 potency) for 18 seconds.
Traits
08 Enhanced Mind
14 Enhanced Mind II
16 Enhanced Magma Burst - Dealing critical damage with Magma Burst now places a damage over time effect.
20 Main & Mend
24 Enhanced Mind III
28 Enhanced Healing Mist - Increases the cure potency of Healing Mist to 60.
32 Water Ripples - Your critical heals have a 15% chance to place a healing over time effect on targets for 12 seconds.
36 Enchanced Elemental Focus - Reduces the cooldown of Elemental Focus to 30 seconds.
40 Main & Mend II
44 Enhanced Rain Cloud - Increases the duration of Rain Cloud to 45 seconds.
48 Yielding Storm - Using Thunderclap or Cloudburst has a chance to make your next Healing Surge, Healing Wave, or Magma Burst cost 50% MP.
Quested Abilities
30 Thunderclap - Deals lightning-aspected damage with a potency of 120 to nearby enemies. Can only be used while Rain Cloud is active and will only affect enemies near the Rain Cloud. 9 second cooldown. Shares a cooldown with Cloudburst.
35 Cloudburst - Restores HP with a potency of X to allies in range. Can only be used while Rain Cloud is active. 9 second cooldown. Shares a cooldown with Thunderclap.
40 Air-warder - Increases the Skill Speed and Spell Speed of allies within 20 yalms by 5%. Prevents the use of wind-aspected spells. Cannot be used with other warder stances. Effect ends upon reuse.
45 Downpour - Consumes Rain Cloud to restore HP. Cure Potency: 600. 90 second cooldown.
50 Hurricane - Creates a designated area that deals wind-aspected damage over time with a potency of X. Active for 21 seconds. Requires Air-warder. Consumes Air-warder and puts it on a 60 second cooldown upon use.
52 Fire-warder - Increases the Determination of allies within 20 yalms by 5%. Prevents the use of fire-aspected spells. Cannot be used with other warder stances. Effect ends upon reuse.
54 Healing Rain - Consumes Rain Cloud to create a designated area around the target's feet that heals over time. Cure potency: 150. 12 second duration. 30 second cooldown.
56 Meltdown - Reduces target's resistance to damage by 10% for 15 seconds. 90 second cooldown. Requires Fire-warder. Consumes Fire-warder and puts it on a 60 second cooldown upon use.
58 Earth-warder - Increases the effect of healing spells on allies within 20 yalms by 5%. Prevents the use of earth-aspected spells. Cannot be used with other warder stances. Effect ends upon reuse.
60 Embrace of the land - Creates a barrier around self and all party members near you that absorbs damage totaling 12% of maximum HP. Requires Earth-warder. Consumes Earth-warder and puts it on a 60 second cooldown upon use.
Quests (WARNING -Fan-fiction advisory in effect)
The geomancer story could be centered on understanding the different ideology of the tribes of the new world and their view on the elements. Your companion NPC for the 30-50 quests would be a conjurer that is convinced he/she can turn the tribes to the direction of balance with nature (like the Gridanians do), and causing all sorts of trouble because of it. In the end, they'd realize that people have their own different ways of doing things, and if you can't approve of someone's ways, you should show respect by letting them be.
The 52-60 quests would deal with several nomad tribes and their issues, all tied together by a geomancer that has become a thrall to a greater power of sorts.
30 Breath of the earth
35 At any given time
40 Restoring the links
45 A slave to no one
50 The Illusion of Hydaelyn
52 Recomposition
54 Elements, Elements
56 Facing the right direction
58 An Earthen Orchestra
60 It's a small world
Notes
- Chances are Geomancer fans won't be happy with this.
- As always, potencies, durations and so on are negotiable.
- While some might be quick to say "but conjurer is basically this", the idea behind Geomancer is that they bend the elements to their will rather than borrow their power. RP-wise, a geomancer and a conjurer would most likely be at each others' throats simply because the former doesn't care about balance as perceived by the latter. A geomancer setting foot in Gridania would be accused of invoking the greenwrath. Likewise, a conjurer would be viewed as a weak-willed individual by the nomad tribes for obeying the elements instead of using them to their own ends. Two different approaches to similar ends.
- Rain Cloud is part of the GEO's core mechanic. The idea is that the GEO would place it on the tank or person who is most likely to take damage and weave in their other heals. In the event of an emergency, they can consume the cloud to do single target or group healing.
- GEO is MUCH more dependent on spell speed because of its need to quickly get casts out.
- The warder stances are meant to simulate the Indi effects GEO has in FFXI, but while keeping them within the scope of FFXIV's design. The idea here is that you'd have 1 effect up depending on what you're looking to do, and can consume the effect for an additional buff or effect or attack where needed. This said, the effects are negotiable if they turn out to be underpowered or overpowered.
- To give an example of how this works, if you click on Air-warder you get the Skill Speed/Spell Speed increases for yourself and your allies, but lose access to Tail Winds and Squall. If you want to deal some extra DPS then you can consume Air-warder by using Hurricane. You'd be unable to click on Air-warder for 60 seconds.
- Some abilities might need to be swapped out for heals if experienced healers don't feel comfortable with this design. It might also need an additional way to recover MP.
- The skill and trait spread being a mirror of Conjurer is intentional. We are designing GEO around being similar to a conjurer but different.
- Of course, given the clash in methodology, GEO would be adverse of wanting anything to do with CNJ, hence why the cross classes are ACN and THM.
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Questions, comments and so on are welcome.