Low level PLD tanking tips OMG Why can't I hold all these mobs!

Just did my first dungeons and holy hell I had so much trouble. I marked, people still attacked the wrong targets, I Flash, the mobs ignore it. I basically just started spamming Savage Blade on my main target and the using flash a few times but with the GCD it seems like by the time I land a Savage Blade on each mob in the pull one of them is straying away to the healer(unless a dps is attacking the wrong target). Is Riot Blade even viable in a dungeon or is it more for solo stuff? Is there a way to track enmity?

And the kicker is none of these people were super high level. One guy was 25 in commons and a few greens where I am wearing Pinks, Greens, and every slot is accounted for.

So I guess my question is how do I do pulls more smoothly?

What I do for pulls is go in, shield lob, flash, then start my combo. Reinforce people that you're doing markers and say that split dps is just terrible for dungeons (because it is). Paladin threat doesn't get good until lvl 40, 26 is when you get the end of your 1 2 3 combo for rage of halone. Make sure you tab target as well on different mobs so that if 1 of the dps decide to attack the other one you will still keep majority threat on that target. A question I have is what lvl are you? You saying that you use Savage gives me the assumption that you're not over lvl 20. Another thing to do as a Gld/Pld lvling is flash weaving do the above with the combo, and after you're done using said combo throw a flash. I hope this helps.

If you're just starting out lvling your PLD, it may be an equipment issue. You're going to want the the best Sword you can get your hands on.

I have the level 15 dungeon sword. The GC stuff is a little later. I started opening two flash and then riot blade combo for mp, ending with a flash, repeat on packs of mobs. Seems to be ok. Just dinged 17. I don't think it a gear issies since there are no high level players synced in my runs thus far.

When I start out gld/pld tanking I mainly rushed groups to get them to gather, flashed twice, and tab'd through the targets alternating fast-savage though all of them then flash if I was losing hate and only on the last target left would I go fast-riot for mp. Once you start pulling more shield lob then that will get you through a lot till you get rage of halone. Then during groups I flash>fast-savage>tab>halone-fast>tab>savage-halone. Keeps aggro very well even pre shield groups. Usually only have to flash again if a patrol/adds show up.

Early dungeons are kind of a problem that solves itself. They're hard to hold hate in, but at the same time not a lot hits hard enough to really necessitate holding all the mobs 100% of the time. If that lancer just don't listen to you, let 'em tank it. You can only do so much. But from my experience? Flash like a madman, and then flash some more. I don't think anybody can expect anything more of a low-level gladiator.

Hmm!

Since day 1, all I do is start the pull with Shield Lob. After that, it's Riot Blade Combo > Flash spam all day long.

I'll note that I switch between mobs per combo; I'll Riot Blade Combo mob A, Flash, Riot Blade Combo mob B, Flash, etc.

I personally have no use for Riot Blade until late in the game. On regular pulls it's unnecessary. Here's the thing about tanking (particularly early level GLA); its all about getting a head start after that you're not needing a crap ton of aggro, you're just needing to put aggro where it's needed.

There's a standard opener that is Fight or Flight > shield lob > Flash (number of times is dependant of situation) > Savage Combo
-don't use Savage Blade outside of combo (in the event that you need single target aggro ASAP, you may use Shield Lob but this only works if party member isn't continuing to build heavy aggro on your target OR if you provoke first)
-don't use Riot Blade if you don't have aggro

Some tanks don't Fight or Flight right away, but that's for when you don't have concerns about establishing aggro up front. The goal is to Shield Lob to get a head start, flash to prevent the healer from pulling, and then generate single target aggro on the DPS' target--marking is good, but sometimes people are just slow in the head. Personally I wouldn't put up with it and I'd explain how marking works and why I need them to follow because Gladiator has no burst aggro, but I don't usually mark anymore. Here's a better breakdown of the process;

As soon as I'm within range, I Fight or Flight and then Shield Lob enemy 1 while moving in. As soon as the adds are within range, I Flash 2x to establish base aggro on the group. While Flashing I see my enemy list, and I can tell what the DPS are attacking based on enemy HPs dropping, so I target that enemy and begin Fast Blade > Savage Blade > Repeat. I continue to watch the enemy list to see that I have red aggro on all targets and to see if HP is dropping on another enemy. I also watch the aggro meters in my party list to see who's generating the most aggro (at low level it's usual an Archer). If I'm comfortable with aggro on my main target, I'll start cycling through the targets and landing my hits on them. Before the enemy dies, switch to the next one to get a head start (it's DPS responsibility to kill things, it's your responsibility to manage aggro)

Most tanks Flash after every few Savage Blade combos as well, but I personally don't Flash past the start of a pull unless new mobs are introduced, instead I watch aggro build on all the targets and will rotate my attacks through them, landing big hits where party members are starting to catch up to me in aggro. If you find the healer pulls aggro you can do another Flash at the start next time and if they continue to pull aggro they're probably over healing. If you have 1000 hp and the healer heals for 400 HP, he shouldn't be healing you when you're at 800-900 hp.

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Originally Posted by Pikachu_Pizza

Just did my first dungeons and holy hell I had so much trouble. I marked, people still attacked the wrong targets, I Flash, the mobs ignore it. I basically just started spamming Savage Blade on my main target and the using flash a few times but with the GCD it seems like by the time I land a Savage Blade on each mob in the pull one of them is straying away to the healer(unless a dps is attacking the wrong target). Is Riot Blade even viable in a dungeon or is it more for solo stuff? Is there a way to track enmity?

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Welcome to tanking. ;)

Sounds to me like you were being overhealed - or taking too much damage to necessitate the healing. Sometimes healers don't realize how much they make us work, especially the GLA/PLD's who have weaker AOE hate generation.

Riot blade is not particularly safe to use, especially at lower levels. Don't be afraid to tell the party that you need to stop for MP regen (or TP). But it also sounds like you're using Flash too much. Flash is weak AOE, you actually should be able to hold the aggro from most 3-mob trash groups with just Savage Blade and your initial Lob. Not that I'm suggesting you try, it's a technique for experienced tanks - I'm just saying that you're overestimating the utility of Flash or you're not taking the breaks you need to between pulls.

I think the biggest suggestion I could make which is hard for someone who mains healer to learn - I know, I went from WHM to PLD myself! - is to change targets often. If you have aggro on your current target, tab to the next one and hit it. Spread your combos out over multiple mobs, unless you're fighting to maintain aggro on one mob.

Basically, all you need is experience. Keep at it, you'll get the hang of it!

There are two main tools for checking enmity. The first is the coloured orbs beside each enemy in the Enemy List. Red (and flashing I believe) means that you have the most enmity on the target. It starts at Green (it has seen you but you aren't it's target) at the start of a pull until you do damage/Flash/heal etc.



The other primary tool at your disposal is the little bars (they are very small) under your name/class icon in the Party List. These only show up when you are targeting an enemy. This shows the Enmity you have built. If it is full, you are the 1st on its enmity table. If you see another party members bar reaching closer to full, that means they might soon take aggro (and should use Fast+Savage or another enmity generating move).

The following actions generate aggro:
- Being seen by the enemy. Assuming nothing else, enemies will attack the first person they see. Enmity = 1
- Damage. This is why it's suggested that you keep your weapon updated and use a mix of STR accessories in addition to VIT ones (don't worry too much about that yet though). Enmity += Damage done. Flash technically has a potency which is used in place of actual damage for the purposes of enmity (it calculates like an attack of that potency, just does no damage)
- Healing. Generates aggro whether it is effective or not. Enmity += a % of potential health restored (not sure on actual calc)
- Mechanics. Specific mechanics in dungeons and certain moves either ignore enmity or manipulate it.
- Enmity Multiplier. This exists on skills like Savage Blade and flash. Savage Blade builds enmity faster by taking the damage it does and multiplying it by the Enmity Modifier. These moves are why tanks are able to keep up with DPS and Healers who deal more damage/heal more than they can.

So what does this mean for you? If the Healer is taking aggro, that means that the healing they do is overpowering the damage you are doing. Remember that healing effects every mob, building AOE enmity each heal. This is why in longer pulls you might have to Flash every once and a while in order to stabilize enmity. On the other hand, if they spam healing, Flash is generally too weak to overpower the healing enmity in groups. If it keeps happening, you might need to talk with the healer about healing you less.

Hope that helps!

Another thing that I'd like to say is that, while you are the tank, EVERYONE is responsible for making sure that each other role of the party is handling aggro properly. Especially if you are marking, it is the DPS responsibility to focus their damage (and thus enmity). Healers are responsible for not over healing unnecessarily and building unneeded enmity. This is true of all jobs.

Tank:
Prioritize and establish aggro on targets so DPS can deal maximum damage without fear of ripping enmity and Healers can heal, while using defensive cooldown to make the Healers job easier.

Healer:
Keeps the tank and DPS alive, utilizing damage mitigation abilities/HoTs in order to assist DPS and relieve tank pressure while also facilitating faster pulls because everyone is alive to do their job. They also often handle random ranged mechanics.

DPS
Responsible for killing enemies quickly via either focus targeting (facilitated by marking and prioritizing) or AOE. This relieves stress from healers and tanks (dead enemies do no damage).

Each role is connected and must do their jobs in order to complete a duty. Early dungeons is where this synergy gets worked out and everyone is still learning. As you move up people will better know what they are doing (usually) and the runs will be smoother.

Well compared to how easy it is to hold enmity in low level dungeons with WAR and DRK, PAL enmity at low levels is quite simply udder fuggin bullspit.

As someone pointed out get the best weapon you can, get str accessories, pump all level points into strength until you get shield oath, and get ready to spam Flash like there's no tomorrow if dps starts nuking separate targets.

Flash. You gotta Flash everything.

If your clothes aren't on the ground in the first five seconds of every encounter, you'll never keep the enemy's attention ;)

Thanks, I am a newbie paladin. I have had a few people tell me that I don't know how to tank. I now feel sort of bad about even trying to take on group battles and dungeons.

At low levels it's not easy to hold enmity as a pld since you're missing Shield Oath. If you're making targets and using Shield Lob and Flash, that's pretty much the best you can do in packs. If the other party members aren't following you're ordering, there's not a whole lot you can do when they peel a mob off you. I play drk, and it's I've had a few instances in Tam Tam where a brd or mch seemed determined to pull enmity off me. I generally take the opinion that if people aren't dying and the healer isn't going OOM every fight, I am not to start something if they do not want to follow the kill order. If they die, it's their own fault.

Spam flash 3-5 times. Rotate riot blade. Keep a defensive cool down up. should be good to go. Also wear all STR accessories on the right side (rings neck and ect). Also if you've got the time go and level up archer to get it's attack boost ability. The only time this would take a lot of time is if you don't have the teleport to gardina or w/e.

You don't really need Vit at early levels due to the mobs hitting like crap so their basically a waste. High defense armor basically allows you to sprint through the areas gather 2-3 packs of mobs and spam flash while a AoE job (blm, smn, ect) mows them down.