We need a smaller objective-based PVP game, not more large-scale Frontlines

If we are going to continue down the track of making GC-bound PVP games, please look into making something smaller. Also, two factions, not three. An 8 v 8 would be awesome.

Some examples that were extremely fun are Warsong Gulch in WoW, Huttball in SWTOR, Murderball in Warhammer, and even the PvPvE Dredgion in Aion. These were all fantastic, small scale, objective based maps.

Frontlines can be fun, but we have the queueing issue where two factions are waiting on the third, least populated faction to queue. Also, an individual's performance in Frontlines can barely influence the outcome because it's mostly a zerg. While individual performance has influence in Wolves' Den, it is not objective-based PVP and plays much differently. A smaller map where two GC groups face off in an 8 v 8 objective-based match is just what FFXIV needs.

This is my biggest complaint about the new Frontlines map. Individual performance hardly affects the outcome of a match. It doesn't feel like Player vs Player; it's mindless zerging from one flashing, bright point to another with hardly any strategy. Oh, you're occupying the east side of the map and a node spawns right next to you? Congratulations! Free points.

These large scale battles don't feel competitive in the least. It feels as though I roll the dice to see if our team wins or loses and my contribution/skill means little to nothing.

Also, smaller maps would alleviate queue times. Easier to wait for 8 or 24 other people than it is to wait for 72(!)

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Originally Posted by Varick

Easier to wait for 8 or 24 other people than it is to wait for 72(!)

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More players increase Q time exponentially. However, when I try queue for wolves den, it still takes long time. I can queue for days without any matches. A bit unfair to campare with new content though.

8v8v8 should be the norm.

"But but but muh memory limitations...." - SE

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

More players increase Q time exponentially. However, when I try queue for wolves den, it still takes long time. I can queue for days without any matches. A bit unfair to campare with new content though.

8v8v8 should be the norm.

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I want something that isn't 3 team. It takes away from the competitive feeling of a face off between two teams. Because two teams can gang up on one, it feels lopsided. Also, Wolves Den queue is slow because it rank matches, but also forms a team of one healer, one tank, one melee, and one ranged (all on the same GC). So you have multiple factors influencing the queue. If they were to do an 8 V 8 correctly, they need to do first come, first serve. Do not rank match. Do not form a proper team (people can change class if they want). If they keep GC in place, so be it, but it would be nice if they did no-GC affiliation. Anything to keep the queue moving and not putting artificial limitations in place that extend it.

There is no GC restriction in Wolves Den. GC-based teams is a Frontlines thing.

Ok 8vs8 then. The gist was 8. 8 is the norm. :P

Are people getting any wolves den these days though? Before the patch, I went days without end with no WD. Probably queued 20+ hrhs total pr match. I know it's not GC based and that is kinda the point. They should be faster in that regard. But there is the class specifics that holds it back. + it's old news. Had everything been released simultaneously, and all modes being equally popular (scaled), WD queues would be faster, unless there were lack of healers or something.

We need duels and ranked 1x1 arena!
FF XIV will be №1 mmorpg with these.

Can we have a Ballista revamp please?

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Originally Posted by Velckezar

We need duels

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Yes!

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Originally Posted by Velckezar

and ranked 1x1 arena!

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Absolutely not.

Damn post erased. Wolves den uses your rank to even teams if the system can't even out team rank score or que and no one matches it will refuse to let you pla. That simple. They have yet to implement any system that lets people play that dont play by the rules of there DF frontlines or wolves den.

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Originally Posted by Velckezar

We need duels and ranked 1x1 arena!
FF XIV will be №1 mmorpg with these.

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Duels okay, 1v1 not necessary.

I'd like CTF, two teams only, no GC related garbonzo, please.

+ give me Capture the Flag some armorsmith+mch guild colab crafted rocket boots and i'll be happy
+ add some kind of mercenary system that allows players to sign up as members of opposing factions if the queues are too long

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Originally Posted by Serret

+ give me Capture the Flag some armorsmith+mch guild colab crafted rocket boots and i'll be happy
+ add some kind of mercenary system that allows players to sign up as members of opposing factions if the queues are too long

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This seems to be the most prevalent thoughts on how to fix PVP.

#1) Fix the queues. When people want to PVP, accessibility is what matters most. The goal should be sub-five minute queues for all players. Allowing people to queue to fill in for any faction seems to be the easiest band-aid.

#2) Smaller PVP maps and teams. Right now, we have one mode: zerg. We need an objective-based map (like CTF) where one's individual performance can make a difference. If we keep the GC restrictions, perhaps filling people into an 8 v 8 match to keep the queues churning at a good pace will counteract the fault of being at the mercy of the least-queueing GC. It is of the utmost importance that a mode like this is unrestricted and fills 8 people in regardless of class. Similar to Frontlines, people can change class at their base, if they so desire.

Completely agreed. It's hard to enjoy myself in PVP when 2/3rds of the fights I engage in are steamroller fights where the people at the front get dogpiled.

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Originally Posted by Velckezar

We need duels and ranked 1x1 arena!
FF XIV will be №1 mmorpg with these.

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1v1 dueling has been asked for countless times but SE won't acknowledge it. I'm not sure why, but that's how it is.

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Originally Posted by kpxmanifesto

1v1 dueling has been asked for countless times but SE won't acknowledge it. I'm not sure why, but that's how it is.

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I suppose there are some things that have to be put in place, like it stops when someone hits 1HP so they don't "die". It's probably more complex than just adding something to the right click menu.

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Originally Posted by Turin

I suppose there are some things that have to be put in place, like it stops when someone hits 1HP so they don't "die". It's probably more complex than just adding something to the right click menu.

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It's very optimistic to think that a dev has even put in that kind of thought towards dueling mechanics and it would be a huge step in the right direction if they have. But right now, at least from what I've seen, I don't think there has been a single reply from a community rep or a dev to any of the dueling request threads that are on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Turin

I suppose there are some things that have to be put in place, like it stops when someone hits 1HP so they don't "die". It's probably more complex than just adding something to the right click menu.

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Nearly all of the systems they'd need are already in place, including this.

This is one of those rare moments where the act really is as simple as it seems.

Square just seems to refuse to even give the idea the time of day. At the very least, I'd like to hear something from the developers or someone in contact with them about duels, even if it's just a "no" or "not yet, but it's on the table".