SMNs. do you use bliz II?

A stupid question I should have asked a long time ago when they took away thunder and gave us this piece of crap but here it is.

With all our new aoe options in HW, pain flare, death flare, bane back to spreading to ALL targets instead of just 3, does anyone even use bliz 2? Sometimes when I'm running a roulette and after I've done my bane,death+pain+shadow flare ect I'll step in and spam bliz 2 for "some" more aoe dmg but is it even worth it? I always didn't like this cross skill and I felt it was schs fault we lost thunder because they also got aero. So does this spell have any practical applications or was it just so SE can say "We took thunder but have this instead"

Yes it's very worth it, especially in dungeons. 50 potency per enemy, compared to our filler 80 damage Ruin/R2 on one enemy (arguably 2 but you can usually end up with more DPS by bringing the higher health enemy down further for better spread damage). Basically once there are 3 mobs you should cut out Ruin/R2 completely. In DWT it's really MP efficient to do R3 but it's still more damage to use B2. At around 4 enemies is where I draw the line between R3 > B2 due to MP concerns. Not only does replacing Ruin have a potency increase, but you'll spread your damage out better which means more Bane/Painflare uptime which means more DPS anyway.

The only time you really have to worry about B2's MP usage are in raids (like A2, where copious B2 usage will run you dry and negatively impact your DPS if used too much) and in very long dungeon pulls due to either chain pulls or slow group DPS so you're on one pack for a very long time. In those cases making sure you can re-DoT is far more important than further B2s, just be careful.

I'm on the fence with blizzard 2 for smn. I can see it more applicable with level sync than an expert dungeon due to the lack of flares. This is a naive statement btw, I'm curious to know more opinions myself.

I use Blizzard 2 in any situation with enough mobs that I'd be otherwise casting Ruin 1/2 in. In other words, if all DoTs are up and Baned, Painflare is on cooldown, I don't need to cast Deathflare in the next 3 seconds, etc., then I'll use it as it will do more damage to the group than a Ruin spell would to a single target. Beware that it does eat through MP but it's not a big deal.

Unless you're in Dreadwyrm and using Ruin III, you'll want to be using Blizzard II with even just 2 enemies being fought. A good rotation will be your DoTs then Bane (Deathflare if applicable), then spam Blizzard II. As long as you're hitting, again, at least 2 mobs its more potent than Ruin.

Just careful of you're MP, but if they're dying quick enough that shouldn't be a problem. It'll be based on the dungeon but frankly you should be using Blizzard II in just about every situation you're in fighting multiple enemies, after your DoT rotation of course.


Edit: Ruin III, had II for cause derp.

I use it as a filler when there's several mobs and I have enough mp. Dots + Bane, the 3 flares and Miasma II are above it in priority though, so quite often there's only enough time for 1 or 2 Blizz before having to reapply stuff.

Are there two targets and is the alternative Ruin I/II -> Blizzard II
Are there three targets and is the alternative Ruin III -> Blizzard II

The whole potency system is designed for easy comparisons.

That being said, you need to evaluate your mana levels and if there is any kind of kill priority in place ie Big Add A has to die quickly before he kills everyone.

You should be using Bliz II in dungeons all the time though.

SMNs in dungeons don't even use shadowflare.

I've given up trying to get them to do anything. I just want my stupid law, its not worth it to put up with their terrible playing.

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

SMNs in dungeons don't even use shadowflare.

I've given up trying to get them to do anything. I just want my stupid law, its not worth it to put up with their terrible playing.

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You sound bitter and unpleasant :/

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Originally Posted by NattyExe

You sound bitter and unpleasant :/

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That is what happens when you don't play with your FC =(

Yes, I use blizzard 2 constantly after the usual dots have been laid down, I will usually keep my smn in melee range to keep down the movement downtime for bliz2 and AAing.

Yup i use it with larger mobs in spirit bonding and dungeons after casting shadow flare and baning dots. I wish tri-bind had same potetncy.

At 50 potency per mob, you would have to have 4 mobs or more to beat a Ruin III.

Ruin III is a bit more mana heavy, at 1060 per cast compared to Bliz II at 707.


ANYWAYS, yes its still useful kind of, but really only on large packs of mobs.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

At 50 potency per mob, you would have to have 4 mobs or more to beat a Ruin III.

Ruin III is a bit more mana heavy, at 1060 per cast compared to Bliz II at 707.


ANYWAYS, yes its still useful kind of, but really only on large packs of mobs.

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1. Ruin3 has 120 pot (132 in DT) and Blizzard2@3mobs has 150 pot (165 in DT).

2. If you're attacking an DoTed enemy you may lose Ticks, while you can blizzard2 to lower all enemies hp at same rate. So only use Ruin3 if there's a mob with more hp than the other 2-3 mobs.

Bliz2 is the best AoE filler you can have as a Summoner. Also please do not consider Bliz2 for its bind, it's irrelevant, unlike in Tri-Bind's case.

Compared to your other AoEs, Miasma2 and what is now Tri-Bind:

All of them have a radius of 5y

Miasma2: costs the least, instant cast, deals 20 potency instant damage while applying a DoT. It's also a Point Blank Area of Effect (pBAoE), like blizzard 2 is. It's bad to spam this as an AoE filler because it is weak while the DoT is already applied.

Tri-Bind: Costs the most, 3 second cast, Deals 30 potency instant damage and a 20sec bind. It's ranged. Best to cover escapes, or coordinate some CC. Just horrible as an AoE Filler as Miasma2, because it's slow, costly, and weak.

Blizzard2:Costs twice as much as Ruin2, 2 second cast, Deals 50 potency instant ice damage with terrible bind. It's a pBAoE. If you are spamming Miasma2 as AoE Filler instead of this, then what do you think you are you doing!?

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Originally Posted by pandabearcat

SMNs in dungeons don't even use shadowflare.

I've given up trying to get them to do anything. I just want my stupid law, its not worth it to put up with their terrible playing.

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I use shadowflare in dungeons all the time. Especially on big pulls. Besides the fact its more aoe dmg but most important is the slow effect. Gives the tank a little bit of a breather if the healer (or the tank) sucks.