Putting Poetics in CM/Prae was a bad idea imho.

Specifically for new players, my missus is having an exceptionally difficult time enjoying these two story dungeons because of tome farming. I'd have hoped they'd learned after Phil times but apparently not.

This is a huge turn off for new players and I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this.

They need something to get people who have already done it to run it. The alternative is waiting in queues for hours on end.

The problem is that if those tomes weren't there, you would have no one queue'ing for them at all. I'd suggest creating a group in party finder if she wants to go through slowly, but tome farming in duty finder is a necessary evil if she doesn't want to be waiting 10 hours for a group to fill.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonThunder

Specifically for new players, my missus is having an exceptionally difficult time enjoying these two story dungeons because of tome farming. I'd have hoped they'd learned after Phil times but apparently not.

This is a huge turn off for new players and I hope I'm not the only one who thinks this.

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There is a reason why SE never did this style again. Just as everyone said, by not adding tomes to it, you're asking Vets to not run those 2 dungeons. This is why all major CSs are at the beginning and ending of the duties now.

This has been happening since launch. Back in the day, farming for tomestones of phylosophy was the norm. Castrum and Praetorium were gold mines for these, so people spammed them over and over in order to buy their Darklight gear. There were a lot of complains about it on the forums and after that they added the "new player" rewards, which consists in extra tomestones upon completion. This didn't stop them of harassing or rushing their way through and leaving the new players behind. Nice players still exists and they will allow you to enjoy the run, but that's not very common.

I fell far behind my group when running these places and have no idea what happened in the cut scenes during the dungeon.

But hey, at least they got done quickly. I can also just go watch them later when I get bored.

If there weren't any tomestones in it, then new players would also get literally no reward for completing it, which would be pretty lame for them, even if it's not as critical to gearing up as it was almost 2 years ago there still should be a reward for completing it.

The issue is more to do with the design of those instances and the ridiculous level of impatience and sense self entitlement the community has than it is with the reward in my opinion.

I am confused, people farm poetics? Or did you mean law?

The tomes help you find people to clear it with. You can always re-watch the cutscenes later on in the inn. You can also create PF that says "running Praetorium for the story, not skipping CS" or something

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

This is why all major CSs are at the beginning and ending of the duties now.

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I noticed this, and it's sooooo good. I enjoy the cutscenes and it kills me to skip them, but I do anyway for the benefit of the run. So it's wonderful to have them after a duty is completed!

I'd much rather be sped through content and watch cutscenes later than sit in queue for two hours because there's no incentive for folk to run said content.

Agree with what everyone else is saying, if there wasn't a reward there wouldn't be any reason for anyone to run it if they already completed those dungeons. I know it's not the same but she could always go back and watch the cutscenes in her inn if she wants to experience the fight. I personally don't mind waiting for people to enjoy both at the same time but unfortunately people would rather speed run and get their reward.

I'm pretty sure people are actually running these for the exp bonus from roulette more so than for poetics. I can't imagine anyone actually farming these for poetics given how fast they accumulate.

There is a df option now to sync to the lowest il. This prevents this from happening.

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Originally Posted by Rath

There is a df option now to sync to the lowest il. This prevents this from happening.

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That only applies to groups made on your server. You cant ilvl sync if you DF.

I literally don't even care to run that dungeon even for poetics. LOL.... Too long, too much work...
Even if it dropped law tomestones I would still prefer to run neverreap- there is a good landmark for comparison. It's easier, more people know how to speedrun it, and it's 100% faster.

I get some people think it's a bad idea like the OP, but seriously for me that "reward" doesn't even come close to cutting it for the massive time/effort sink.

I don't think people are even doing that for poetics. For leveling the 50-60 grind you get something like 250k experience for completing the main scenario roulette. At least that's why I still run that one sometimes.

Regardless if it's for tomestones or experience the result is the same. You have people who have already run these instances far too many times and just want their reward asap. Still, if those rewards were not there it would be almost impossible for new players to progress through those instances.

During the period after Philosophy became useless and there was no longer a reason to do Praetorium/Castrum Meridium, and before it was added to Main Scenario roulette, people had to sit in queue for hours to get in. Which version do you prefer?

If you have a person in your FC who wants to watch these cutscenes, you need to form a FC party to take them in the first time. If you have at least 4-5 people in the group that says "we are waiting for our friend to watch cutscenes" then the group will have no choice but to wait. They can exit and eat a penalty if they're that frickin' impatient.

We've done this for the majority of our friends in our FC. Gives them a chance to enjoy the CS while inconveniencing fewer people.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

You can also create PF that says "running Praetorium for the story, not skipping CS" or something

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This... doesn't work. I tried that when I first tried to do Prae, and waited full hour for absolutely nothing.

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Originally Posted by Core1019

This... doesn't work. I tried that when I first tried to do Prae, and waited full hour for absolutely nothing.

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That's unfortunate :( If someone in my FC requested help I'd definitely go. If on PF, it'd depend I guess. I know I'd be more willing to go if it was unlevel synced

If I had a solution to this, I'd just recommend SE make Praetorium and Castrum solo dungeons with NPC's to help. It would help with experiencing the story how it was meant to be experienced and help with queue times for a very old dungeon that few people want to run.

I think it sucks when I have to skip CSs but sometimes you just got to do what's best for the group. At least you can watch all CSs from the inn unlike 11

People farm for Poetics? In Castrum/Praetorium of all places?
The only reason why I set foot in those two places is Main Scenario Roulette. lol

I've tried the PF option, it could take days to get anywhere sadly. I kinda wish you could cross server the party finder.

Is it possible to run CM and Prae in an undersized party? Can you just grab a few high (i)level friends and plow through everything at your own pace?

CM is a weird one though because I think most people have it set to skip cutscenes previously viewed, at least I do. So when you're running it and the screen goes black for a sec, everyone pauses, then continues on. I think it's just habit most people rush off, especially since the first half of CM is sort of spread out, with sometimes half the party far away from the others, so it's hard to tell who is actually viewing the cutscenes vs not. Just because it says Viewing Cutscenes doesn't really mean they are. My friend plays on PS3 and we play in the same room sometimes, and for him the scenes aren't even playing and he's in the instance, but can't see anyone else, even though on my screen everyone is there and it says he is Viewing Cutscenes, when really he's waiting for the slow ass PS3 to actually catch up and load everyone, like when switching floors in a dungeon. Really don't get how people can play on PS3. He'd teleport to Mor Dhona and literally be alone for about 2-3 minutes before other players start to appear. On my screen he'd be standing right beside me, but on his he was alone lol. Other than the NPCs rather.

Also I'm fully aware that I'm beating a dead horse, it just feels like the incentive system intended to support new players has been deliberately taken advantage of for selfish benefit.

I wish there was an option to only party with new players or something, not as fast of course but with cross server it would still be something.

The debate about skipping cinematics has been going on for a looong time.

People in a hurry have no right to demand anyone to skip any cinematic but at the same time those watching cinematics have no right to demand that everyone waits for them.

Simplest way to deal with this is to watch the cinematics and if you truly want to experiance the dungeon as a whole then you can que for it again.