Optimal WAR opening DPS rotation?

Just hit 54, fooling around on a dummy, I made this:

(prepare Abandon with Infur + Veng extend before pull) > HS(Brutal) > Maim(IR) > Eye(Xpot) > Fract > HS(late Berserk) > Fell(Infur) > Fell(Raw) > Maim > Eye(Brutal) > Heavy > Maim > Eye > Fell > Fract(pac)

I didn't math it out, just based on logical guessing/dummy practice, but with this, Eye is kept up the whole time, Fract is overwritten at 5s left with Berserk up, and 2/3 Fell Cleaves are buffed by both Berserk and IR. Any other ideas/math oversights I missed?

You don't have enough abandon for that 3rd Fell Cleave. You'll need to use Raw Intuition somewhere in there to get the 5th stack. Since you're clipping Fracture anyways I'd leave the first one out and then use the berserked fracture before the 3rd fell cleave to get the 5 stack crit bonus.

I do, reread my rotation. I use Raw after the 2nd Fell Cleave, and my first Fracture is under max Abandon.

Also, clipping Fracture with (at worst) 2 ticks left still works out to 260 potency, and worth using, given as the current potency of the WAR toolkit, per GCD, works out about the same as that. Also, however, if the one GCD is better used to hasten Abandon generation, I'd like to see math supporting it.

So recently I have been using this: HS - Maim - Eye(BS) - HS - SS - BB(IR and Pot) - HS(Berserk) - Fell Cleave(Infuriate) - Fell Cleave - HS - Maim - Eye(BS) - HS(Raw int) - SS - BB - Fracture - Fell Cleave(pacified)

with my current gear(i181 with hive axe) i can get to about 1200 dps and sustain that until about 40 seconds and then fall to about 1000 till about 3 minutes and then 960 at 4 minutes+

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Originally Posted by pouncing

So recently I have been using this: HS - Maim - Eye(BS) - HS - SS - BB(IR and Pot) - HS(Berserk) - Fell Cleave(Infuriate) - Fell Cleave - HS - Maim - Eye(BS) - HS(Raw int) - SS - BB - Fracture - Fell Cleave(pacified)

with my current gear(i181 with hive axe) i can get to about 1200 dps and sustain that until about 40 seconds and then fall to about 1000 till about 3 minutes and then 960 at 4 minutes+

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whats your skill speed at? I cant squeeze a third fell cleave in under 1 potion, and if i use fracture i get pacified before the third cleave.

There has been some good discussion about using Infuriate at the end of the cycle instead of the beginning so that it lines up better in the long run with zerk and IR.

My cotank and I deliberated about this at length, and here are our findings:

TL;DR: It all depends on how much uptime you have on the boss until you get interrupted by adds/mechanics, and the damage difference is quite negligible at about 3% or less

http://i.imgur.com/VN9nYMx.png

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

There has been some good discussion about using Infuriate at the end of the cycle instead of the beginning so that it lines up better in the long run with zerk and IR.

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Yea the other rotation of building 5 stacks first instead of the pre-pull/Infuriate deal seems to work much better. Plus don't have to kill a min waiting.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Plus don't have to kill a min waiting.

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You need 40s for your optimal burst, it's no more than a ready check + 15s countdown. which is pretty standard for most groups.

If you don't get to set up properly, then you're not going to deal anywhere close to as much damage as you could, so it's more of a group limitation than a rotational one.

The real optimal burst would be to have the WAR open with Defiance Infuriate Unchained and let the PLD/DRK OT and provoke on pacification to take advantage of FoF->Goring->2xRA or Blood Weapon->a bunch of DA stuff.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

You need 40s for your optimal burst, it's no more than a ready check + 15s countdown. which is pretty standard for most groups.

If you don't get to set up properly, then you're not going to deal anywhere close to as much damage as you could, so it's more of a group limitation than a rotational one.

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Anywhere close? We are talking about 2-3 gcd delay. The damage is gonna happen either way.

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Originally Posted by stoxastic

let the PLD/DRK OT

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A PLD can open in Sword Oath as MT if NIN gives them Silhouette, and neither class can come close to WAR's ridiculous burst currently.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

We are talking about 2-3 gcd delay.

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It takes, minimum, 8 GCDs to build full stacks unless you burn CDs, CDs that could be better used for pre pull extensions or actual DPS.
Also, you assume that the fight is going to somehow give you back those GCDs, which doesn't happen, at least not until AST becomes Time Mage

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

A PLD can open in Sword Oath as MT if NIN gives them Silhouette, and neither class can come close to WAR's ridiculous burst currently.


It takes, minimum, 8 GCDs to build full stacks unless you burn CDs, CDs that could be better used for pre pull extensions or actual DPS.
Also, you assume that the fight is going to somehow give you back those GCDs, which doesn't happen, at least not until AST becomes Time Mage

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Not assuming anything other than, at the end of the fight, 2-3 GCDs in the opening probably isn't even going to register a difference. You're kinda the one assuming it's not going to be "anywhere close"

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

2-3 GCDs in the opening probably isn't even going to register a difference.

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Then why are you posting in a thread about maximizing your GCDs in an opening rotation? It's right there in the title.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Then why are you posting in a thread about maximizing your GCDs in an opening rotation? It's right there in the title.

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Check the math if you want, I just left off pots because it doesn't say anywhere it's a flat 20% increase.

http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/...psc8it1w0t.png

And, sorry about the name mix up, I thought you were IpKonfig not Ippiki

"Other" is the rotation discussed here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...on-for-max-dps

Ah, I messed up. The last fracture should have zerk boost. Your total should be 10679.55, so about 100 potency difference over the whole duration. On a minor note, the last move Fracture is up, so if you re-applied fracture instead of Heavy Swing the total is 10609.95. Less than 30 potency difference.

The reason I posted in your thread was "you're not going to deal anywhere close to as much damage as you could" when it's only along the lines of 30 potency lol

Anyways, carry on, I won't talk anymore non-max dps rotations. Looks like you have it figured out :)

1. You apparently can't read potion descriptions[+20%, max 84], the max Str we can get right now without Gordian slaying is around 880-900, so +20% isn't too inaccurate. Opening rotations are tooled to interact with as many potency buffs as possible, forgetting something as powerful a potion can seriously skew numbers. Example, I get 2x Fell Cleave and Fracture in my XPot cycle, you do not get the Fracture. This discrepancy will increase the more common Draconian potions become.

2. Your "other" rotation has Eye falling off after the third Fell Cleave, losing about 62 potency more, unknown amounts to the autoattack during as well.

3. You extended your rotation 1 GCD past mine, in order to fit your 4th Fell Cleave in(which you are several GCDs behind on, I wonder why) in order to pad your potency. Yet, despite all the errors, behind mine.

4. Due to the above Abandon loss, you blow both Raw Intuition and Vengeance at the same time, disabling not only the ability to use them later to hasten Abandon generation, but also as defensive cooldowns.

Why argue against a certain situation that anyone can access(40s pre pull) if you're going to cherrypick other situations(no pots, unaccounted Eye falloff, that one extra Fell Cleave, silly CD usage) that you just made up on the spot?

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

1. You apparently can't read potion descriptions[+20%, max 84], the max Str we can get right now without Gordian slaying is around 880-900, so +20% isn't too inaccurate. Opening rotations are tooled to interact with as many potency buffs as possible, forgetting something as powerful a potion can seriously skew numbers. Example, I get 2x Fell Cleave and Fracture in my XPot cycle, you do not get the Fracture. This discrepancy will increase the more common Draconian potions become.

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+20% Strength attribute is not +20% damage. In both examples there is no potion so numbers are comparable (versus comparing your numbers with potion to mine without)

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

2. Your "other" rotation has Eye falling off after the third Fell Cleave, losing about 62 potency more, unknown amounts to the autoattack during as well.

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It's very close to falling off, sure. I almost always have SCH and the first thing they pop is the haste from Selene, so it's always close but doesn't fall off. Either way, swapping the 2 around your still going to get the same total at the end.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

3. You extended your rotation 1 GCD past mine, in order to fit your 4th Fell Cleave in(which you are several GCDs behind on, I wonder why) in order to pad your potency. Yet, despite all the errors, behind mine.

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Both rotations are the same number of actions. Obviously my 4th cleave is behind because it doesn't start pre-pull.

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

4. Due to the above Abandon loss, you blow both Raw Intuition and Vengeance at the same time, disabling not only the ability to use them later to hasten Abandon generation, but also as defensive cooldowns.

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Are you thinking of this as a MT rotation? I don't pull in Deliverance. This is just for OT when I don't care about saving a defensive CD. Not really a lot of room for chastising since you're blowing one before the fight even starts >.>

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

Why argue against a certain situation that anyone can access(40s pre pull) if you're going to cherrypick other situations(no pots, unaccounted Eye falloff, that one extra Fell Cleave, silly CD usage) that you just made up on the spot?

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I linked a thread that was made earlier then week that you couldn't even bother to look for to help answer your questions. It's not my rotation but what I started using because it makes more sense and the timing isn't as crucial, just start the fight as normal. Again, you said there was a huge difference, and my only purpose was to at least attempt to prove that there isn't a huge difference at all.

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Originally Posted by Nanaho

whats your skill speed at? I cant squeeze a third fell cleave in under 1 potion, and if i use fracture i get pacified before the third cleave.

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Sorry for the late reply: My skill speed used to be 515 and it was a breeze, then i got the hive axe and am down to 480 and I can still do it although it is super tight.

My ping to Sargatanas (my server) is 20ms though so your mileage may vary

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Originally Posted by Ippiki

(prepare Abandon with Infur + Veng extend before pull) > HS(Brutal) > Maim(IR) > Eye(Xpot) > Fract > HS(late Berserk) > Fell(Infur) > Fell(Raw) > Maim > Eye(Brutal) > Heavy > Maim > Eye > Fell > Fract(pac)

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Yeah, this is pretty much ideal due to being able to start with 5 stacks of Abandon. Not sure if that is the best place for IR, but I'd have to go test to check. Anyway, I usually use:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CMXI8RuQOY

simply because it takes far too long to go through Infuriate -> wait 30s -> Veng -> wait 10~15s -> etc. Usually that results in someone being afk during the ready check, everyone else being ready when they get back, but me being like "alright guys... just need like 40s here...". I'd rather just get the pull going and do a slightly less optimal opener. P: