summoner. sic or obey?

For max DPS. It it better to have your pet on auto pilot or should I control it's abilities for dps?

What are the high end summoner players doing in raids? Also is it good to macro ruin with sic (if sic is the best option)

Never use sic for anything.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Never use sic for anything.

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Sic for Titan Egi is ok! :P

But yeah, use Obey.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Sic for Titan Egi is ok! :P

But yeah, use Obey.

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Pfft, ok, well... XD

Why can't you have Ifrit on Sic ?

Am I doing it wrong.

I don't main SMN but I enjoy playing it on my off time.

Explain and help

Thanks !

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Originally Posted by ZhycranaDranix

Why can't you have Ifrit on Sic ?

Am I doing it wrong.

I don't main SMN but I enjoy playing it on my off time.

Explain and help

Thanks !

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You don't need him using lower potency AoE or his Stun just because it is off of cooldown. Save it for when you need it. Just let him use Burning Strike/Auto Attack for single targets. Also, being able to time Radiant Shield if you need to can be helpful.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

You don't need him using lower potency AoE or his Stun just because it is off of cooldown. Save it for when you need it. Just let him use Burning Strike/Auto Attack for single targets. Also, being able to time Radiant Shield if you need to can be helpful.

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I know I should save Radiant shield, but I like to keep it up so that the tanks dps is boosted as well. Even if it's a little, just like Fey wind boost everyone's dps.

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

I know I should save Radiant shield, but I like to keep it up so that the tanks dps is boosted as well. Even if it's a little just like Fey wind boost everyone's dps.

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You don't always have to save Radiant Shield, I usually still try to keep it up as often as possible anyway. In the event that you do want Radiant Shield for a specific time, Ifrit won't care if he's on sic though and will likely already have it on cooldown. Either way, you can still have plenty of uptime, but on Obey the uptime is under your control.

It's better to have Ifrit using attacks with the most potency instead of blowing off lower potency skills that you don't even need him using. You can command him for whatever other purposes you need. It's not as huge a deal as Garuda wasting Contagion, but the question was 'Sic or Obey'. Obey is better. Sic will work, but Obey allows you to have full control of your damage output rather than having it be at the whim of your pet.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

You don't need him using lower potency AoE or his Stun just because it is off of cooldown. Save it for when you need it. Just let him use Burning Strike/Auto Attack for single targets. Also, being able to time Radiant Shield if you need to can be helpful.

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"when you need it" basically never exists, ifrits stun is to unreliable for practical uses, and and his aoe is still a damage increase on single target over not uses it, you could save it for when adds spawn i suppose, but the difference that one hit makes isnt really going to make a difference.

also as to OP's macroing skills, short answer is never ever macro your skills.
long answer, using macros avoids the action queue, forcing you to lose a small amount of time on your skills every time you use the macro, in this case also, you have the added problem of you dont always want your pet hitting what you just cast ruin on.

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Originally Posted by Zamii

"when you need it" basically never exists.

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I was referring more to the AoE for adds. I agree the Stun is far too unreliable. Either way, the point is you don't want him choosing to use those abilities just because he can.

But isn't it better for the pet on like a single target fight to use its abilties automatically off cooldown? Or would it just be a dps loss even on single target.

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Originally Posted by Boocraft

But isn't it better for the pet on like a single target fight to use its abilties automatically off cooldown? Or would it just be a dps loss even on single target.

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A better question would be why would pets using AoE abilites off CD on a single target fight be a good thing?

Yes it would be a dps loss, it's like using fire 2 on a single target boss.

Even on multi-target moments pets arn't smart enough to use their ablities at appropriate times. They are just a likey to use it on the single enemy before the tank can herd them up.

Ifrit u can use sic because radiant shield is useful now and for Garuda keep her on obey.

Sic is fine on Ifrit if you dont need to save Radiant shield for any big group cleave moves (Read: Saving it is useful in Ravana because you get the most damage out of waiting for the group cleaves to have it running)

Through the powers of mystical rainman mathing, Ifrit on Sic will generally do about 15~ or more DPS than Ifrit on Obey even if he only hits 1 target with his AoE ability. This will vary based on your gear obviously.

So you gain DPS by letting him do as he pleases, though you'll want to put him on Obey regardless if you're fighting a mob where Stunning is needed as Ifrit will just spam it and then the enemy will build resistance and such. Putting him on Obey for a quick moment to time your Radiant Shield usage isn't going to hurt too much either.

But Sic for ifrit is not only fine, but better for DPS. Just use it wisely.

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

Through the powers of mystical rainman mathing, Ifrit on Sic will generally do about 15~ or more DPS than Ifrit on Obey even if he only hits 1 target with his AoE ability. This will vary based on your gear obviously.

So you gain DPS by letting him do as he pleases, though you'll want to put him on Obey regardless if you're fighting a mob where Stunning is needed as Ifrit will just spam it and then the enemy will build resistance and such. Putting him on Obey for a quick moment to time your Radiant Shield usage isn't going to hurt too much either.

But Sic for ifrit is not only fine, but better for DPS. Just use it wisely.

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It's not a big difference.
http://i.imgur.com/UTVddtU.png

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Originally Posted by Bigcat9715

It's not a big difference.

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I was consistently getting a difference of about 15DPS or so in (Ilv173) gear, letting him melee for about 10 minutes each time. Though I don't doubt your results.

187 vs 202 was the rounda-bout average of the tests. Was on dummy's though, I'll try it out on a dungeon scenario (though I can imagine it getting wider since his AoE will be hitting more than 1 mob).

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Originally Posted by BlaiseArath

I was consistently getting a difference of about 15DPS or so in (Ilv173) gear, letting him melee for about 10 minutes each time.

187 vs 202 was the rounda-bout average of the tests. Was on dummy's though, I'll try it out on a dungeon scenario (though I can imagine it getting wider since his AoE will be hitting more than 1 mob).

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But isn't Garuda still far more effective for multi mobs?

With Contagian (with Bane) + Aerial Slash + Aerial Blast it seems like that would far outdo a Flaming Crush from Ifrit... Not to mention Inferno is far harder to line up properly for AoE.

If that is the case, wouldn't it make what you are suggesting mute since he is just much less effective in that situation and you should really use Garuda on Obey?

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

But isn't Garuda still far more effective for multi mobs?

With Contagian (with Bane) + Aerial Slash + Aerial Blast it seems like that would far outdo a Flaming Crush from Ifrit... Not to mention Inferno is far harder to line up properly for AoE.

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I think that would depend on how long the enemies are lasting and the situation, but overall I don't think you're going to get much of a change. Ifrit might be harder to line up and hit multiple enemies but would do more damage with Enkindle. For reference (this may have changed post-3.0), Aerial Blast does 250 damage, while Inferno does 200 + 20 DoT/15seconds, for a total of 300 Potency. So long as your getting about half that DoT effect Ifrit will do more damage from Enkindle, (Though I'm actually not 100% sure how Rouse/Spur effect its DoT damage)

You also have to consider Ifrit's radiant shield, as it now hits your tank, is an extra 50 potency to everything (physical) that hits your tank, and on multiple enemies... this adds up really quick in ifrits favor. Think about it like this, if you're in a hard mode dungeon and your tank pulls like 7~10 mobs, and each auto-attacks every 3 seconds (I don't actually know the exact time between enemy auto-attacks, I'm throwing this out for easy math)) thats an additional ~500 potency every 3 seconds (ignoring any abilities they use) your ifrit is contributing from Radiant Shield.

That will kill anything Garuda has to offer in AoE Pulls.

So my person rule of thumb is Ifrit for fodder, Garuda for bosses, as I find contagion is very useful for bosses, but on normal mobs they hardly live long enough depending on the dungeon (though in Expert if you don't have good AoE heavy damage you could see use of Garuda/Contagion but personally I find just reapplying Bane and inching closer to Aether stacks not to be a bad thing).

As for lining up ifrit, I tend to sic him on something near the back of the pack so he'll line up in just about the middle of them, it takes some getting used too but I rarely have issues with him hitting everything with Inferno.