Why do Tanks get a bad Rep?

I was recently helping a buddy of mine with an 8 man dungeon because the Tank was being bossy and kicked him. But I usually notice when I DPS the Tanks do act a bit strict? I was also kicked for not listening to Tank!
As a Tank myself I always pull between 6-15 mobs at once to speed things up, while being cheerful and laid back to keep things fun. I also take advice and listen to explanations from DPS.
But sometimes people think I'm here to boss them around!?

The handful of assholes you run into versus the majority you actually run fine with does not equal a bad rep.

Just sayin. You remember the bad ones.

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Originally Posted by Asierid

The handful of assholes you run into versus the majority you actually run fine with does not equal a bad rep.

Just sayin. You remember the bad ones.

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It's been happening nmore recently so I thought Alex or Lizard people DRK had something to do with

You have to give us more context. What instance were you running?

If it's just a dungeon, I would say that it's just a rude, arrogant tank. But if it's Coil, Alexander or an EX fight, there can be justification for "bossing people around". Especially if the DPS aren't taking care of mechanic properly.

So you going to explain how the tank was being bossy or are
we going to send all tanks to the stake? >_>

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Originally Posted by Yutsimaki

It's been happening nmore recently so I thought Alex or Lizard people DRK had something to do with

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Not anymore than usual.

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

If it's just a dungeon, I would say that it's just a rude, arrogant tank. But if it's Coil, Alexander or an EX fight, there can be justification for "bossing people around". Especially if the DPS aren't taking care of mechanic properly.

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If it is Alex, this is why. The fights hinge on everyone doing their job. Someone isn't doing their job, I'll let them know. The main problem is people hate to admit they are wrong, even if they are actually wrong. So we'll go the next route and get rid of them for someone that can actually listen to directions.

It's a growing trend in this game. I'd say there are more deaf/mad DPS who don't want responsibility than there are asshole tanks.

Hey!! I just got back from crafting 99 HQ Mythrite nuggets and T9.
But would say FC and friends having bad experiences with Tanks on recent 52-60 dungeons

Honestly, HW brought back a LOT of people, both the good and the bad. Bad tanks give tanks a bad rep in general.

1) Too many of them (even one is too many for me) Leeroy their way through more enemies than they, healers, and DPS can handle at once.

2) Lately there have been bandwagon tanks trying to be DPS and neglecting the prime reason for being a tank, not to mention being an MP drain on healers.

3) For reasons I can't explain (Psych was not my major in college), tank jobs just attract idiots.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

3) For reasons I can't explain (Psych was not my major in college), tank jobs just attract idiots.

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Probably linked to lack of patience. A lot of people switch to tank because they are impatient and want shorter queues. Impatient people tend towards being less intelligent than patient ones.

Tanks get alot of hate

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Originally Posted by Hayward

1) Too many of them (even one is too many for me) Leeroy their way through more enemies than they, healers, and DPS can handle at once.

2) Lately there have been bandwagon tanks trying to be DPS and neglecting the prime reason for being a tank, not to mention being an MP drain on healers.

3) For reasons I can't explain (Psych was not my major in college), tank jobs just attract idiots.

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Some tanks are on a power trip.

The diva tanks don't help. You know the type, the tanks that think because tanks are always in need, they can act however they want with no repercussions. A lot of times this means even if they are obnoxious or rude. However I agree with the person who posted that most tanks aren't actually like that and the reason it seems like there is is just that the bad ones stand out.

Because when you're the Tank, you are the Main Character of the story that charge in first taking the hits saving the day with your trusty Weapon of Justice!

:p

Jokes aside:

Ya Tank Job tend to attract some unwelcomed personalities for some reason either for...

1) faster queues
2) belief they get priority over everyone because they keep the group alive by being the Meat shield.
3) Because Tank Jobs get the cool looking Knight armors.
4) etc..

best we can do is tolerate them and if they can't accept that people don't treat them like Main Characters of the Story then there is always the Vote Kick option :)

Now the tank players that are nice in personailty are the one I always like to party with since they take their time explaining thing for new players and know that not everyone can meet certain standards and skill level.

I haven't run into many asshole tanks as a healer but any time I've seen one get mad at someone or try to kick is because the dps usually does not know their job or refuses to follow instructions. Main problems I have with tanks at the moment are the ones that want to rush so if there is someone new they give very hurried instructions to what is a much more complex mechanic than he makes it seem. We wipe and tank gets Pissed and instead of clarifying pulls again. I even have tanks in Alex that rush off without any protect the second we get in. But otherwise, I see them kick bad players mostly.

I also get a lot of ranks refusing to mitigate damage.

Im not a tank and im bossy!
Not in a rude way, I tell people what they do wrong and how to improve
Cant help myself :c
But if I see lots of adds and a fellow summoner are spamming ruin before applying dots to everything I will tell him that he deals more damage if he keeps up dots on both bosses (alex 1 as example)

Every job can be bossy!

When you tank, you can see more clearly of what your teammates are doing. When the SMN refuses to Bane, when the BLM refuses to AOE, and when the DRG refuses to move away from AOEs because rotation. You can see why the mobs don't die fast enough or when your HP don't fill up fast enough.

Then you call out to them what they are doing and suddenly you're the bad guy.

"BLM, I think we need some AOE instead of single target. They'll die faster."
"You're not my boss and I do what I want!"
*proceed to early pull the rest of the dungeon and die when healer can't heal him fast enough

That's why nowadays, when I see somebody messing things up, I'll stay quiet and rush things to finish it. I stopped caring.

It's not just tanks. DPS, and healers all get flack now and again. The best you can do is try to understand why someone is aggressive towards you. if you feel it is unjustified then report it and move on, but try to understand what the issue is first. It is possible that while the offending party is aggressive, their concern may be warranted. Perhaps you aren;t fully playing your job to the best of your ability.

I say this because yesterday I ran into a uneducated BLM who would only use Fire3 and Blizzard 3 in succession. They did not understand the concept of using Fire 1 until Fire3 proc'd (ie Firestarter) Despite my party making several attempts to educate them, they didn't seem to understand it or show any willingness to change or cooperate. After taking an extra 30mins to complete the dungeon than was necessary, tempers were high and comments were made.

Sometimes people get frustrated when they are trying to help a player get better at their job and their advice is just met with ignorance. That is why I say to try to understand what the issue is. Without constructive criticism, no one gets better at their job. (Just make sure its polite criticism if possible)

Note: Also, please please please read your action tooltips. and not just actions but traits as well. Many criticisms can be avoided just by understanding on your own time, what your actions do and incorporating them as necessary.

i've noticed a looot of one and two since heavensward launched, i think partially because a lot of people who don't usually tank are trying drk?

I use an alt I've had since 1.0 for the non-mage jobs, and I decided that since my main went through the 2.0 MSQ first, my alt deserved the spotlight for HW, which lead to her being an Au Ra Dark Knight ;p I used to have huge anxiety over being a tank at all, too many negative experiences, but I've managed to do well enough consistently enough as a Drk that the anxiety is gone, and the jerks don't even get a second thought.

That being said, ever since HW and my shift to being a Tank 99% of the time, I've noticed on more than a handful of occasions where some of the responses I get from randoms in the DF equate me to a respite from some of the other bossier or more hapless tanks out there. That being said, having played as long as I have, I've seen examples of poor players in every role and every class/job. I think it just seems worse with tanks because they're sort of the defacto leader of the group's pace and, usually, don't suffer as much with the DF queues so there's a bit of a disconnect between full time tanks and full time DPS. (More likely to get an impatient DPS that'll blow up if the tank doesn't suit their needs because they've spent so long in the queue and don't want to add a slow dungeon run on top of that, where-as Tanks are in a position to be more likely to be laid back/slow or arrogant/bossy because they get in as soon as they queue up, and rage-quitting over "plebs" isn't as much of a detriment to their time).

As a tank ,some SOME dps (veterans) dont know the different mechanic of different tanks , they tend to hit mobs which are not aggroed by the tank ,they early pull mobs before tank thus making it difficult for tank to reaggro i witnessed peopel with ilv130+ gears doing such acts so i dont count them as newbies , of course good tanks will tolerate and resolve the issue before anyone dies with no hate or quarrel involved. in 8 man party when i was a younglin in tanking i get scolded by the MT :3 . in the end of the day all will thank each other as the instance ends no matter what happened . the main point as far as there are worse tanks , there are much worse dps in terms of mentality , incompetence does not lie on tanks only .. this in terms of technicality or on how to deal with new guys or mechanics-poorly informed players .

and no matter how bad a tank u are or a dps or a healer i ll be forgiving and have endless tolerance

we should give em courses :D

Mostly in Masamune not much talk, So I cant hate Tank here like I do in EU/NA data center. Mechanic at dungeon is easy after few run you can understand by yourself. I never have any experience getting wipe more than 2 times in dungeon, so I'm not sure why people so stress about dungeons.

In 8-24 content just vote abandon after few wipe that's all...
I don't mind DPS queue time, I got lots other stuff that I can do. I start to enjoy other content like crafting, beast tribe quest wile waiting for my queue.

A background on my Tanking method.....
I pull 6-12 Mobs when we start to test healer and DPS. If we all die I take things slow, and steady. But if we lived I'll pull group of mobs depending on healers limits.
I make sure ALL the mobs are distant from healer and facing away from everyone. I immediately pull any mob that attacks DPS or Heals and Cover them incase mob ignores me. Get loads of commendations and request to help alot! :D

I don't like ordering people or giving advice unless they need help.

I believe there is a place for correction and guidance especially if someone is doing something clearly wrong. On that note, there is also a way to say it extremely friendly and in a positive way. Some people who aren't as "emotional or WOO" will definitely say it in a way that could put you off. It's all in your approach. If someone knows you care then they should take that to heart. Admit your mistakes first before coaching though IMO.

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Originally Posted by Yutsimaki

A background on my Tanking method.....
I pull 6-12 Mobs when we start to test healer and DPS. If we all die I take things slow, and steady. But if we lived I'll pull group of mobs depending on healers limits.

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IMO, rather than "Testing" DPS, you should only perform this test if the composition is appropriate for the party.

If I have a DRG+BRD, or a MNK+BRD, or a MCH+DRG, etc etc... basically non-mage classes / weaker AoE classes on limited resources, I'm not going to pull crazy. I'm going to keep my pulls small. This allows the healer to add more DPS to the fights and allows me, myself, to jump into DPS stance more consistently.

All doing big pulls with single-target based classes does is exhaust your healer's MP keeping you up for the duration of it. a SMN/BLM in the mix can help out on these AoE pulls, and that is where I might test it, but without those classes? I likely will keep it smaller to encourage faster kill rates instead of bigger mob pulls.

They get bad rep for two things, imo:

1* New tanks who fail at their job, which makes players think that alot of tanks are bad players who are tanking to avoid a long queue.
2* Tanks who think all should obey them, they will force the players to do what they want or else they will leave the group. This one is the most common one, imo.

The first point can be fixed, by letting those tanks make mistakes. Mistakes might be bad for the other members, but for the tanks and everyone in general, mistakes give us the tools to improve ourselves. If you see a tank failing, ask him if he wants some advice and provide it in a respectfull manner. Often I have seen tanks getting advice from other players in a condscending manner, which inturn demeans the tanks and makes them not listen to any advices, including those from players who mean well.

The second point can be fixed very easly aswell. The only reason why these type of tanks can get away with their douchebaggery, is because they know that players are in a rush and dont want to wait for 5-10 minutes for a new tank. If we want to get rid of these behavior then we need to agree that when this happens, we should all stand toghter and kick the tank. Finishing a dungeon takes a team effort, the tank keeps the monsters away, the dps kill them and the healer keeps the players alive. Players who do not understand this, have no place in a mmorpg, imo.

I'm okay with awful tanks, makes me look like a god in comparison! :D


On a serious note, I just don't know. I didn't know how bad some tanks were until I started healing - and as a Dark Knight, there is nothing worse than seeing DKs not using grit / darkside on dungeon runs, or just ignoring their buffs. It's all a matter of opinion and choice I realize that, but I really think it's better that they tank and let the healer dps when there are windows rather than pretending they are a dps class...

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

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all of this. as bard when my dps partner is a melee, my tp gets exhausted with consistent large pulls. paeon or not, especially as battle voice has no effect on the caster.
as healer when the party composition has no caster, the longer the fight drags on, you (the tank) start to run out of defensive cool downs assuming you popped more than 1 (please pop more if you still have a large pack). this results in heavier sustained heals, my own healer buffs probably down and now my resources are nearly diminished.
just because you have the hp pool to take a few hits from half the floor, doesnt mean its efficient.

Last night I queue roulette and we got Snowcloak, we have one newbie DRG, she watch cutscene and ignore most of the mechanic. She die twice at Fenrir yet nobody say a words, what I feel is hilarious seeing her so excited DPS the bos even everyone is hiding behind the pillar. The content is not hard they will learn it later, that is what I think and I do with all HW content, so far I haven't watch any video yet. Just go blindly and figure it out later.

I unfortunately see tanks like this more often than I would like, not saying that other rolls aren't capable of this too (as a PLD I once had a healer trying to get me to multi-pull Satasha NM with a PUG and LNR as DPS who have literally no AOE at that lvl)

The most stand out experience I've had with this was a WAR who decided to pull 4 groups of mobs in Amdapor Keep with me (A BRD at the time) and a newbie ilvl50ish DRG. As BRD does when using AOE I burnt through all my TP very quickly even with invigorate so I activated Armys Paeon to restore my TP (and the TP of the DRG who had been spamming AOE attacks too) only to be called a "retard" by the tank and told he could "Manage his own TP", then when I told him it was for myself he told me to "get invigorate" after which I decided to ignore him completely. Later in the dungeon he apologized for his bad mood but the damage had been done already and I didn't care what ha had to say anymore.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Some very good points form Eidolon-Sama you should go back and read if you haven't already.

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^ This yes please, don't pull big groups if you have 2 MNKs or something as your DPS, I mean really just think about what the composition of your group can handle.

A lot of people also think they can go watch a Xenosys Vex youtube clip and be ready to break out into the tanking scene and realize its harder than it looks.
My issue as a tank is im too used to my static/friends healing me so when i enter a que as a tank with a random healer i think i am invincible because thats what im used to. It makes me look like a moron yes but im sorry for thinking everyone as an equal

tbh after leveling a Tank and a healer now leveling DPS ive noticed that both are just as bad as each other healers that wont let a tank pull more than 1 pack of mobs but go afk every fight cause the tank doesnt need to be cured 24/7 or Tanks that believe they are gods gift and invincible and get REKT then rage quit cause they pulled an entire dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Yutsimaki

I was recently helping a buddy of mine with an 8 man dungeon because the Tank was being bossy and kicked him. But I usually notice when I DPS the Tanks do act a bit strict? I was also kicked for not listening to Tank!
As a Tank myself I always pull between 6-15 mobs at once to speed things up, while being cheerful and laid back to keep things fun. I also take advice and listen to explanations from DPS.
But sometimes people think I'm here to boss them around!?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...finally-happen...

I like laid back considerate tanks. :> The kind I already am lol

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

All doing big pulls with single-target based classes does is exhaust your healer's MP keeping you up for the duration of it. a SMN/BLM in the mix can help out on these AoE pulls, and that is where I might test it, but without those classes? I likely will keep it smaller to encourage faster kill rates instead of bigger mob pulls.

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Meh. Whm/sch can both put out more dps in AoE situations. So regardless of your dps comp, your healers will always be able to dish out a bit more with larger pulls - assuming they're good enough stance dancers to keep you up. MP is really a non-issue in dungeons.

I don't think you're necessarily right or wrong, but it depends on the healers. A boss-mode healer can make large pulls worth it even with mnk/mnk comp, but if they aren't then it doesn't matter.

Edit tldr; do what's best for your group. Just wanted to point out that there aren't really situations where small pulls are more efficient if we're assuming people are playing optimally.

Heavensward brought many fights where DPS and healers must do mechanics (totem boss on Neverreap, last boss on Gubal Library, etc) and many people are still on that "speed run" mentality from 2.0 and think they're gonna do fine just by shooting stuff in the face. If i'm the tank and people are not cooperating (like some black mages and their precious ley lines) i will surely "boss them around" so they do.

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Originally Posted by bettomendes

Heavensward brought many fights where DPS and healers must do mechanics (totem boss on Neverreap, last boss on Gubal Library, etc) and many people are still on that "speed run" mentality from 2.0 and think they're gonna do fine just by shooting stuff in the face. If i'm the tank and people are not cooperating (like some black mages and their precious ley lines) i will surely "boss them around" so they do.

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Better if heals/tanks do totems, actually. Boss doesn't move or do damage while he's casting, so it's not like tank/healer are doing anything else (except dpsing, but at that point why not let the dps dps?). I'll do em if I have to, but it isn't efficient.

True Fact!
Being the Tank is an automatic license to be an ass.
Whether or not they play the tank card is up to the individual player.

I think one of the real problems is that there's never enough stuff where you need 2 tanks so we never really get to see more examples of if wer doing things right or wrong. Same can be said for healers but let's stick to the tank example for now on this thread.

Yes tanks can see more of what's going on so they can tell if the smn in their group isn't outing up dots and if people aren't dodging.

Yes we can get hot headed some times and like to think wer perfect but wer not the good tanks know that and work towards improving but yes we will still get hot headed some times.

Dose any one who mains a dps or healer on here know how frustrating it is to be constantly wipeing to stuff do to low dps out put? That's one of the real things that get us angry.

And if we are doing something wrong keep in mind most of the dungeons are 4 man 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps. The healer will know if their doing bad because the tank and every one will die the tank will know their doing bad because if they can't hold hate every one else dies dps will be dps and just kill things as fast as possible.

But big thing is tanks are disadvantaged in a way because they don't have an example of if they could be doing things better. Because again most stuff in here is 1 tank run only.