Duty Finder and removal of job individuality

can somebody explain to me the necessity for additional classes, considering in dungeons that our roles are predetermined by tank/dps/healer, meaning in DF, the game is judging you on a sole merit of your class

if you're a healer and not picking white mage, you're essentially asking to be inferior, that's all youre asked of in the DF as AST or SCH, "CAN YOU HEAL?". Not how well you manage rationing buffs or other facets, just healing

heaven forbid a class be judged on its support merit, or pulling merit right?

The same argument can be applied to the Tank and DPS role, if the healer is healing adequately, there is absolutely nothing youre supposed to worry about besides retaining enmity (Oh this is so hard right?? I definitely wasn't given fisher price buttons to make sure every enemy pays attention to me), meaning there is zero individuality in these classes, just who has the better enmity theory

Cont.

DPS is the lack of piercing, slashing, blunt and elemental, once again the DF requires you just know how to deal damage right? There's no contemplation on whether or not a Dragoon will be of more use than a Monk, at the end of the day, if they're not pushing out raw damage, you're useless. Ice bosses don't take more fire damage, and dragons don't take more damage from DRGs

Consider for a second, if DF did not exist, and players then began to rely more on the party finder (and how DD parties prefer BLM over say a MNK), requesting specific setups, but because the DF Hrequires this tri-effort of healing/damage/enmity, it means even the hardest dungeons have to conform to this "casual" set up

Cont.

The only counter-point is how fast these individual classes can get a dungeon done, i.e. one healer having better damage capabilities than the other but if you ever thought your damage mattered, you'd be allowed to pick a role besides Healer, and if your support, off-tanking, or healing as a DPS even mattered, you'd be able to pick Healer.

This game has no dragoons, no ninjas, no warriors etc. etc. , just tank, DPS and Healer

You've clearly never done end game raid content.

If you tried to do a raid with 2 PLDs, 2WHMs, 4DRGs, you would have a much harder time than a party with diversity.

The reason individuality is less prevalent in dungeons is because most dungeons are required for story or progression and they don't want to favor certain classes or make others not viable. They're not going to restrict what kind of DPS or tank it healer you can bring for dungeons.

Each class has its unique aspects, if you can't see that you're blind. Every other MMO is the same way

...I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Yeah, the tank, healer and damage jobs all have the same function I guess, but doesn't it matter that their play styles are different? A BLM does damage in a completely different style than a monk, for instance. I don't know what else you want. Unbalancing the jobs would be bad.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

...I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Yeah, the tank, healer and damage jobs all have the same function I guess, but doesn't it matter that their play styles are different? A BLM does damage in a completely different style than a monk, for instance. I don't know what else you want. Unbalancing the jobs would be bad.

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have found none of the DPS to have any variety in their playstyle, just learn the two arbitrary positions they give you and learn a rotation, boom, no difficulty ever. Im glad giving different coloured buttons has made you think they play any differently

Then I guess I must be crazy liking Ninja but really hating Monk.
Or being an okay Scholar but not being able to keep a party alive with White Mage.

All right, cool, have fun in a raid without a Bard or Machinist. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Then I guess I must be crazy liking Ninja but really hating Monk.
Or being an okay Scholar but not being able to keep a party alive with White Mage.

All right, cool, have fun in a raid without a Bard or Machinist. Good luck.

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did you seriously just argue my point by admitting to be bad at the game

Uh. What? I said there are options to jobs because you may be good at one but bad at another because...gasp... different playstyles.

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Originally Posted by Kertz

have found none of the DPS to have any variety in their playstyle, just learn the two arbitrary positions they give you and learn a rotation, boom, no difficulty ever. Im glad giving different coloured buttons has made you think they play any differently

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Please tell me that you try to flank and rear on BLM. The images of you play BLM the same as MNK makes my lols hurt.

You sir, are glorious. Never change. I urge you to continue with amazing ideas such as these. We need more people like you in the world. You are bae all the way.

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Originally Posted by Kertz

have found none of the DPS to have any variety in their playstyle, just learn the two arbitrary positions they give you and learn a rotation, boom, no difficulty ever. Im glad giving different coloured buttons has made you think they play any differently

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Yep, you have never done any endgame content. Please go try running T13 with double SCH and tell me how that works out for you.

Duty finder groups are only for four people. It's supposed to be a quick and dirty setup to get people playing right away. Although a fifth spot would probably be nice for all the people who want faster queues.

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Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

A BLM does damage in a completely different style than a monk, for instance. I don't know what else you want. Unbalancing the jobs would be bad.

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Originally Posted by Kertz

have found none of the DPS to have any variety in their playstyle, just learn the two arbitrary positions they give you and learn a rotation, boom, no difficulty ever. Im glad giving different coloured buttons has made you think they play any differently

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ikr, they are like the same!
wanted to level MNK, accidentally leveld BLM :-/

Oh... you were serious?

Im laughing so much that you think that just because most dps have rotations makes them all exactly the same.

Also for suggesting that SCH is currently inferior to WHM.

..Sounds like the OP wants to be able to single out certain classes and go with a 'preferred' setup.

Too be fair, a lot of classes aren't THAT dissimilar. OP is obviously over the top, but if you can play a nin, you can quickly pick up dragoon and/or monk as well. Roles are more Tank, Melee dps, ranged dps and healers, between more drastic play style variation.

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Originally Posted by Korashy

Too be fair, a lot of classes aren't THAT dissimilar. OP is obviously over the top, but if you can play a nin, you can quickly pick up dragoon and/or monk as well. Roles are more Tank, Melee dps, ranged dps and healers, between more drastic play style variation.

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Actually each classes here is VERY different to play. Yes they have similar "big idea" big picture structure on how you deal damage, how to heal and how to tank. But the play style and when you execute those abilities are quite different. I play healers and each one is way way different than just spam cure one button fix everything - if this is what you do, you must be very terrible beyond bad overtly dadidumb player. Paladin, Warrior and Dark Knight does not play the exact same way, even if they fill the same roles.

As for WHM being the better healer of the three.... LMAO, yeah clearly OP has no idea at all how this game works on endgame, not a single clue. Astro is the only healer right now that just need a few tweaks. But as it is for now, SCH is quite OP, though having SCH + WHM combo still the preferred way of clearing harder contents. The two jobs play off each other abilities wonderfully.

The jobs, while they are not completely different in terms of certain gameplay nuances, are in fact quite dissimilar from one another.

Take the way Monk, Dragoon, and Ninja operate. Monk focuses heavily on hitting at a most constant rate to maintain greased lightning and hit as much as possible. DRG focuses on big numbers per hit over more hits per second. Ninja needs to keep Huton up while also keeping up slash resistance debuff as well as weave in ninjutsu and whatnot. They all feel different.

Or healers. WHM has huge cures and the best heal over times, whereas scholar has the best shielding in the game with Aldoquium's galvanize on top of having a bit of help with heals via fairy. SCH is arguably a better healer as well if you learn the differences in gameplay and utilize all SChs tools. AST can be a lesser of both in terms of HoTs and shields depending on stance, but is unique in that it has good (if random) buffs for party members. It still is a viable healing job.

The jobs are different in terms of gameplay and provide different utilities to groups. Monk's mantra, bard songs, Ninja enmity control, etc. It's all to balance the jobs.

Everything needs to be balanced to avoid stacking jobs or disallowing other to join a group because "PLDs, WHMs, and DRGs onry".

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Each class has its unique aspects, if you can't see that you're blind. Every other MMO is the same way

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Let's be honest though, compared to other MMOs the jobs in this game was very not unique from each other. In Yoshi's bid to make every job able to clear all content he's had to water down job identity until their big differences are basically:
DPS jobs: See if you can figure out who is who :^)
Heals party's TP/MP with subpar damage
Heals party's TP/MP with subpar damage and is starved for TP
Reduces enemie's Piecing resistance
Reduced enemies blunt resistance/INT
Aoe
Aoe

Tanks:
Mitigation
Slightly less mitigation for small amounts of sustain (Although admittedly 3.0 did give this one damage)
Slightly less mitigation and squishy af

Healers (closest thing to job diversity this game has):
Aoe heal and heal nuke
Rapid heal and aoe shield....also aoe heal.
Let your party die while you pick a card

The lack of any real support job (Not some pseudo-DPS that they slapped TP regen on and called it a day) will forever be a sore spot for me.

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Originally Posted by Kertz

have found none of the DPS to have any variety in their playstyle, just learn the two arbitrary positions they give you and learn a rotation, boom, no difficulty ever. Im glad giving different coloured buttons has made you think they play any differently

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So by your Token all the Job play the Same. they ALL require you to Hit keys on a keyboard and move a mouse. or buttons on a Controller.
so if you don't look at the Screen and stare at your keyboard then ALL game are exactly the same! how boring. lets solve this by removing your hand from the keyboard and getting a close up of the Ctrl/Alt keys now zoom out. Zoom in and look at the Space bar! Zoom out. now place your ear on the Caps lock and roll you face across the board till your other ear touches the Keypad and repeat!


Sir you complain that Jobs have no Variety is invalid. It is what they are doing on the screen with there moves that makes them different. its the Look of the Weapons and Excitement each individual jobs Abilities bring to you that makes them Unique. dodging a Raid boss AOE at the last possible second with my Ninja's Ability Shukuchi while every other job has to Run from the boss is exciting!

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Originally Posted by Kertz

if you're a healer and not picking white mage, you're essentially asking to be inferior, that's all youre asked of in the DF as AST or SCH, "CAN YOU HEAL?". Not how well you manage rationing buffs or other facets, just healing

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As a tank, I can say that white mages are my least favourite healing class to get in a 4-man. Give me a Scholar any day in any dungeon. Heck, I'll even take an astro as the solo healer given the choice. White mages are for 8 man content, paired with either one of the other healer classes.