Marauder Changes in 1.19?

I'm surprised nobody's posted a discussion of what the Ifrit video means for Marauders. Here are my thoughts.

Starting in 1.19, we're getting automatic stat point allocation, at least until 1.20. The Ifrit video apparently gives a preview of how stat points will be allocated. And, since my love of Marauder is deep and abiding ( :D ) I thought one of the most interesting things in the video was how it differs from what you'd expect.

One of the things that makes Marauders effective tanks is their huge HP pool. Typically, the guy with the highest amount of HP in any party is the Marauder. But it looks like that may change in 1.19. Both Gladiators have 3216-18 HP, and the Marauder has 2867 HP.

And Marauders typically have the least MP. But it looks like that may change in 1.19. The Marauder has the 2nd most MP of any DoW: 951 MP (!). The only class that has more is the Arc at 971. This is especially surprising since Marauders have a whopping one (1) attack that uses MP -- Iron Tempest. Which I haven't even equipped on my bar since shortly after figuring out how it works.

This leads me to believe that Marauders are going to have lots of attribute points spent on Mind. Which is an interesting choice.

Now, I'm not going to freak out and suggest that Marauders are going straight DPS, or they can't tank anymore, or that allocating MP to Marauders means the devs are nerfing Marauder. All of these differences could be at least partly explained by other factors that we can't see, like Materia or differences in levels. (Although the Marauder seems to be using a [item=4040404]Canopus Bill[/item], a r50 weapon.) Heck, the two Gladiators have wildly different MP pools (480 vs. 881). And let's face it, when you watch the video, pretty much everyone in the party seems to get killed, except one player ... the badass (a.k.a. Marauder).

But based solely on the video, it does look like Marauder is going to play differently when 1.19 hits. Our HP is going to drop. Our MP means that magic attacks and spells may become a bigger part of our arsenal. And if we do have higher Mind, we're apparently going to be better at resisting magic attacks. (For example, at 0:40 in the video, everyone gets rocked by an AoE attack, except the Marauder, who takes much less damage.)

The posters on this board are the most academic Marauders around. I’d love to hear your thoughts. See something I'm missing? Am I missing everything?

And, just in case there’s a dev around that feels like being awesomer than normal, stats currently have different effects on different classes. So if a Marauder and a Gladiator both had the same Vit, the Marauder will have more HP. Will that change in 1.19, so that attributes will effect all classes the same?

I belive they said they were going to be changing gear so it would have more stats and they would have more of an impact. Perhaps thats the reason for the big differences. I don't know if that was coming out in 1.19 or later though. I kind of like the idea of MRD being an anti magic tank and GLD being a physical mitigation tank. The only problem I see is the amount of movement necesary to fight casters messing up steadfast.

OP: You've drawn some wild and crazy assumptions based on that video. I think you should think about it more critically. It seems as though you've seen what you want to see, and there are certainly other explanations for that which you point out.

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Originally Posted by animeprime

I belive they said they were going to be changing gear so it would have more stats and they would have more of an impact. Perhaps thats the reason for the big differences. I don't know if that was coming out in 1.19 or later though. I kind of like the idea of MRD being an anti magic tank and GLD being a physical mitigation tank. The only problem I see is the amount of movement necesary to fight casters messing up steadfast.

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That's a good point. A shield would presumably be pretty useless against magic attacks anyway. (Unless you can add Materia to a shield, which could be used to buff magic resistance.)

And the point about moving vs. steadfast is also astute. There does appear to be a ton of movement required in that video. Ifrit jumps around quickly, those exploding floor areas require you to move away from them, directional AoE attacks, etc. So Steadfast may not be much of an option in the Ifrit fight.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

OP: You've drawn some wild and crazy assumptions based on that video. I think you should think about it more critically. It seems as though you've seen what you want to see, and there are certainly other explanations for that which you point out.

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Thanks for the input. But can you elaborate on what you're saying here? Where are my assumptions "wild and crazy"? Where have I "seen what I want to see"?

I was under the impression that I was basing my thoughts on what was actually in the video. If I'm steering off course, can you let me know where I'm doing that?

The MRD in the video is a Lalafell.
I wonder if race will now become a factor since he had lower HP than the GLA's but higher MP.

But at the same time, you can't really assume much from the video cause I've been in parties where my ARC has more HP than a GLA.

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Originally Posted by VydarrTyr

Thanks for the input. But can you elaborate on what you're saying here? Where are my assumptions "wild and crazy"? Where have I "seen what I want to see"?

I was under the impression that I was basing my thoughts on what was actually in the video. If I'm steering off course, can you let me know where I'm doing that?

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the only thing i find wild and crazy is that stats will have different effects on different classes, they couldn't do that as it would really mess with balancing, the way I see it is that if you are going to make a game based on stats you make a universal point system that all classes follow so there are now loop holes and you cant be good at everything (as long as you have a cap on points I think it will have happen, except for situations like gear etc.)

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

The MRD in the video is a Lalafell.
I wonder if race will now become a factor since he had lower HP than the GLA's but higher MP.

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I wondered the same thing. It makes logical sense. If a Lal starts out with (just making up numbers here) a 5 in Vit, and a Hyur starts out with an 8, and you add 2 points to Vit for every level, wouldn't the Hyur end up with more HP?

Not that any difference will be game breaking. But it's interesting to see how it will work out. At least until we get the option to allocate our own points again. :)

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But at the same time, you can't really assume much from the video cause I've been in parties where my ARC has more HP than a GLA.

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Absolutely true. There is going to be some variation, especially when we can allocate our own points however we want.

But I thought the video was interesting because it presumably uses the 1.19 method of automatic stat point allocation. That means that two naked Hyur Arcs should both have exactly the same stats. Unless there are factors I haven't thought of -- and I'm dumb, so that's definitely possible -- the only variation should come from weapons, armor, food, or Materia.

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Originally Posted by RathSkybreaker

the only thing i find wild and crazy is that stats will have different effects on different classes, they couldn't do that as it would really mess with balancing, the way I see it is that if you are going to make a game based on stats you make a universal point system that all classes follow so there are now loop holes and you cant be good at everything (as long as you have a cap on points I think it will have happen, except for situations like gear etc.)

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This is interesting. The current system works so that stats have different effects on different classes. A Marauder with 172 Vitality will have more HP than a Gladiator with 172 Vitality. A Gladiator with 172 Vitality will have more HP than a Conjurer with 172 Vitality. Etc.

Similary, a Marauder with 172 Mind has fewer HP than a Conjurer than 172 Mind. Etc.

Now, I'm not going to suggest that the current system is perfect. There's a reason they're getting rid of it.

But if stats affect all classes equally, then won't that hurt class differentiation? Won't Conjurers be able to max out their Vitality and become tanks? Won't Gladiators be able to max out their Mind and become healers?

If players are able to allocate their own stat points, making those stat points affect different classes differently seems like the only way to keep those classes different.

Of course, this isn't much of a concern in 1.19, in which our stat points will be allocated automatically. But the reason that I asked that last question of the devs was because I was thinking exactly like you are. It's just simpler and easier to understand if the stat points affect all classes equally. And if Marauders have fewer HP in the video -- which they appear to have -- then it might be because stats will now affect all classes equally.

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Originally Posted by Holyomen

The MRD in the video is a Lalafell.
I wonder if race will now become a factor since he had lower HP than the GLA's but higher MP.

But at the same time, you can't really assume much from the video cause I've been in parties where my ARC has more HP than a GLA.

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In part it does now. Each character will have minor attributes variations based on ttheir starting attributes, which might, as example, have dunefolks with the lowest STR and VIT from all races while highlanders and hellsguard have the highest if not mistaken. The difference is only 6 points since the starting attribute range goes from 12 to 18...but now we need to see how impacting it will be. Maybe 6 points in 1.19 is worth a few dozens now.

Something everyone also seems to be forgetting is that they're fixing stats to actually have an effect and they're adding material. The Lalafell Marauder in that video was probably not geared for tanking and as such had lower HP, higher MP, etc...

My biggest concern for the Ifrit fight though is the lack of Steadfast. I mean we're going to have to be moving around a lot during that fight and even Enduring March just won't cut it. Losing Steadfast isn't too bad against a single target, though it does negate enmity build from Defender.

Well, another important point a friend told me (didn't notice at start) is that now VIT and PIE from gear will also add HP/MP. So mainly if the dude stack HP+VIT matetias (which might have a pretty high success rate since it's only one from forbidden stuff) to armors like cuirass set, which already have HP and VIT, this might explain the crazy amounts of HP GLAs have, also helping alot LNCs and MRDs.