Paladin Advice please.

Okay so been away for little bit came back and jumped into my main scholar and got it to 60, How ever my off class is paladin and i have kinda forgot the rotations and am just about to start leveling it in next day or so.

So to keep it short can someone give me a rundown of the paladin rotation as it stands now and what order you pop your cool down for defense buffs.

also any other tips or tricks that can help would be nice as like i said its my second class i fall back on.

For Paladin you have your usual RoH Rotation for increasing enmity and applying the str- debuff
but we got two new finischers:
first a dot riot blade->goring blade which is quit potend and should be apllyed as soon as possible (so to say as soon as you got enough enmity, sometimes one or two flashes are enough but that depends on your Equipment)
the next would be savage blade -> royal authority, RO has a potency of 340 and as lond as your GB dot ticks and you have enough enmyty you should use it. Good think: if you started RA Combo and see that you Need the str debuff or more enmity you can just Switch to RoH as they both Combo from savage blade.

Cool downs should (in General) be used depending on their cool down times (so 90sec before 120sec and so on) but that can differ depending on the fight. One think is a new CD we got: Sheltron, cd of 30sec and guarantees a 100% block for the next blockable attack (also gives back quite some mp) this should either be ready for every tank buster or if the fights do not have Tank Busters (or you don't know them yet) as much as possible.

other tips: i did not do this my self yet (as i have no understanding of macros) but using a macro to anounce Divine veil might be good as this skill only activates when you are healed by someone else.

The basic combos I do are Flash, Circle of Scorn, then ROH, then Riot Blade Combo, Flash, Goring Blade, ROH, once you have enough enmity you can basically just use Royal Authority for the rest of the fight to increase damage. Although I would recommend being very careful about that with a fresh 60, not a lot of DPS seem to know what self control is with all their new things. So until you get a higher item level, you're basically going to be a flash turret in my experience.

For the basic boss rotation I like to RoH combo once or twice then apply Goring Blade Dot, after that you can use Royal Authority. Use shield swipe on proc and weave in a flash here or there if you are starting to get low on TP.

So basically its this order.

Shield Swipe procs > Keep Rage of Halone debuff up / or if losing aggro > Keep Goring Blade DoT up > Royal Authority > Flash when low on TP.

For defencive CDs there are different ways of doing it. I recommend keeping Hallowed Ground and Sentinel for heavy hits/"oh shit" moments. The rest can be cycled for quite a bit of up-time, and should be done based on their CD times. So use Rampart first always if it's up and nothing else is active, then either Convalescence or Foresight, then the other, then Bulwark if you want. Alternatively you can use Bulwark for the specific purpose of increasing your block rate to proc Shield Swipe on command. Another option is to use convalescence when your hp is low to help your healer top you off. If you take that approach, I recommend stacking Awareness with Convalescence to prevent sudden spikes in damage at the same time. I use the first method but if I notice I'm getting low fast, I will pop convalescence and awareness regardless

Levelling to 60 you get Shelltron at 52, which blocks one physical hit and is pretty weak mitigation unless it's very well timed, but it has an extremely short CD and restores mp, so unless I have a planned purpose for it I just keep it on CD for mitigation, MP, and sometimes for more Shield Swipe. Devine Veil at 56; outside of planned usage right before raid damage, it's ok to use it a little recklessly--it shields the party after a healer heals you and usually won't have much impact outside of more hardcore content (I'm a fan of using all my skills regularly).

Clemecy at level 58 is like a Cure II that costs over 1/3 of your mp. You're a healer so when to use this shouldn't be difficult for you--the added benefit of this skill is if you heal someone in your party other than yourself you gain 50% of the heal to yourself. I use it on party members if they get dangerously low most often, and myself in rare life or death situations.

Thanks as for the healing skill sounds like a good panic button if a healer is down or someone if low like you said and is good to know you only get 3 casts per bar i was unsure if it used mp as the site i checked the skill did not have an mp cost on it.

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Originally Posted by LutinaWolfstine

Thanks as for the healing skill sounds like a good panic button if a healer is down or someone if low like you said and is good to know you only get 3 casts per bar i was unsure if it used mp as the site i checked the skill did not have an mp cost on it.

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it cost roughly 2/5 of our max mp, but it heals for a lot so i think that is not the problem sometimes you get interupted that can be pretty bad but doesnt happen that often (at least in the 2 lvl 60 dungeons, in Alex i just used it once while being attacked and was immediatly interupted so not sure how good it works there)

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Originally Posted by ZodiacSoldier

Shield Swipe procs > Keep Rage of Halone debuff up / or if losing aggro > Keep Goring Blade DoT up > Royal Authority > Flash when low on TP.

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I haven't run the numbers, but I believe Shield Swipe is a DPS loss if you use it over executing a Royal Authority combo. You can fit in roughly two of them comfortably during your average cycle (Rage of Halone -> Goring Blade -> Royal Authority) without losing either Goring or Rage of Halone, but more than that is a DPS loss.

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Originally Posted by Adrasteia

I haven't run the numbers, but I believe Shield Swipe is a DPS loss if you use it over executing a Royal Authority combo. You can fit in roughly two of them comfortably during your average cycle (Rage of Halone -> Goring Blade -> Royal Authority) without losing either Goring or Rage of Halone, but more than that is a DPS loss.

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You actually can't fit in any. You can get in 8 GCDs per Goring at the moment. Even at 554 skill speed I can still only fit in 8.

Our basic combo is:
Goring > 1 > 2 > Halone > 1 > 2 > Royal > 1 >2 > Goring

Royal/Halone depends on hate/dps needs.

Swipe is borderline useless right now and a DPS loss. It is however a TP gain. If Bulwark is up you can do 3 swipes instead of your a 1,2,3 combo. Of I you get a swipe near the beginning of the rotation plus have Sheltron up you can play with RNG for a 3rd proc. This would only be used for TP gains, hate and DPS should be regulated with Halone/Royal.

Do NOT focus on MP regeneration long before the fight is over.

If for whatever reason you find yourself deadlocked into using nothing but flash, use riot blade in between flashes to maintain threat. :D

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Originally Posted by SirTaint

You actually can't fit in any. You can get in 8 GCDs per Goring at the moment. Even at 554 skill speed I can still only fit in 8.

Our basic combo is:
Goring > 1 > 2 > Halone > 1 > 2 > Royal > 1 >2 > Goring

Royal/Halone depends on hate/dps needs.

Swipe is borderline useless right now and a DPS loss. It is however a TP gain. If Bulwark is up you can do 3 swipes instead of your a 1,2,3 combo. Of I you get a swipe near the beginning of the rotation plus have Sheltron up you can play with RNG for a 3rd proc. This would only be used for TP gains, hate and DPS should be regulated with Halone/Royal.

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Swipe being a dps loss is irrelevant. We are tanks, needing optimal dps isn't our job. Maybe for an OT, but they aren't getting the proc anyways.

While not mandatory, it greatly helps if everyone do some respectable amount of dps on top of doing their main job. Heck even healer dps isn't something to look down upon. So what's stopping tanks to contribute to some dps??

Anyway, just a personal thing i do but i usually 1-2-3 until i get a huge threat lead and then i activate FoF and use it exclussively on GB(experimenting on GB > Fracture > CoS) and RA.

I use shield swipe between my enmity rotation switching between targets. Its good for a quick snap of enmity, instead of winding up halone combo.

But like Sir Taint said its a DPS loss. Why should we as tanks care about DPS? It helps in making it easier to hold threat; see str acc. Also in terms of healer DPS, we as tanks actually have the accuracy to not miss.

Also convalescence + clemency ftw.

I'm definitely an advocate of defensive tanking (and if you aren't, PLD is the wrong class). I typically favour mitigation build over a DPS build, at least when entering/learning new instances at my level. IMO going DPS build all the time is mistaking arrogance for confidence, and too many tanks get carried, IMO.

However, party DPS is important. Anyone that can contribute without risking their performance in their role should contribute. More DPS means a smoother run, and a dead mob is the best damage prevention there is. PLD was just given 2 DPS rotations and it's so we can DPS. It was stated in the live letter today that PLD isn't intended to perfectly cycle all of it's combos, we're meant to build aggro when appropriate and DPS when appropriate, and I never understood why people thought otherwise. When it comes to some of these recommendations I've seen across multiple forums where people are explaining how the perfect rotation involves all 3 combos (Combo X followed by Combo Y, followed by Combo Z, repeat) it's silly. If your goal is to top out your DPS, you won't have a standard timing for a RoH combo in your rotation, you adjust to meet aggro requirements while trying to utilize your new DPS combos. (Someone else mentioned this in this thread I believe.) The goal should be to learn how to build aggro, not just the most aggro but all options. Then know how to DPS, and adapt the two to your situation.

Your aggro needs will vary from tank to tank, party to party. Some tanks have more STR or a better weapon, and some DPS know what they're doing whereas others don't. I've had one situation where I've had to stick to my RoH combo almost exclusively, and other times where I opened with RoH and then kept aggro using the RA combo as well as Shield Swipe, while maintaining my GB DoT. I'm currently working under the assumption that if I can control aggro with Shield Swipe, I'm better off cutting out my RoH combo.

In any case, tank priority should be Aggro management > Survive > DPS and Support. Just because it's at the end of the list doesn't mean it's not important.

I like reading well informed big huge posts on something I'm trying to learn. :>

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Originally Posted by Myric

Swipe being a dps loss is irrelevant. We are tanks, needing optimal dps isn't our job. Maybe for an OT, but they aren't getting the proc anyways.

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Maybe in dungeons it not but in end game raids it's critical. Look at all the threads on ravana double prey. With good raid DPS including tanks you should never even see double prey. It will be even more important in savage Alex.

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Originally Posted by LutinaWolfstine

Okay so been away for little bit came back and jumped into my main scholar and got it to 60, How ever my off class is paladin and i have kinda forgot the rotations and am just about to start leveling it in next day or so.

So to keep it short can someone give me a rundown of the paladin rotation as it stands now and what order you pop your cool down for defense buffs.

also any other tips or tricks that can help would be nice as like i said its my second class i fall back on.

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DRK has drawn a bunch of new players to the tank class. The AST, in comparison, has not made a ton of new healers. Healers are the hotness in demand right now, and if you're not needed to heal, you may as well just deeps.

While all the advice in the thread is good, my best advice would be to choose a different sort of off-class, if you're trying to be useful in the PF. If you run mostly with your FC, then keep doing what you're doing. ;)

I like to have one of each class at max for the ability to come as whats needed by leveling my scholar first as it gives two birds with one stone as i got my summoner to 60 in the progress.

Just got the paladin to 52 last night. and seem to be keeping threat okay and i normaly swap between these defence cool downs on pulls.

FoF>BfB - leading into flash>Aoe dot> Flash > 1-2-3 rotation on the melee monsters. Soon as dot drops i pop rampage.

Next group if FoF and BfB on cool down i use this.

Conservation>the 20% defence buff from warriors - Starting by flash>Aoe dot> Flash > 1-2-3 rotation on the melee monsters.

I do wait till i get within 5 feet or so before i pop the mitigation stuff and for the most part it seem to work okay now and then i do drop a flash into the rotation to keep tp up a little.

From this am i doing the job right?

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Originally Posted by LutinaWolfstine

Thanks as for the healing skill sounds like a good panic button if a healer is down or someone if low like you said and is good to know you only get 3 casts per bar i was unsure if it used mp as the site i checked the skill did not have an mp cost on it.

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Would have been nice if they allowed Paladins to raise in battle, if we are to be a bit healer-ish, then giving us that trait seems logical especially if we are off tanking and the healer goes down.

Actually, now I think about it, giving us that trait would make Paladin an idela off tank since we can stance switch to shield oath and provoke if needed, but stay in Sword Oath and DPS/support while watching out for that 'oh-crap' moment when the OT has to transition to MT, and keep things on the straight and narrow.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Would have been nice if they allowed Paladins to raise in battle, if we are to be a bit healer-ish, then giving us that trait seems logical especially if we are off tanking and the healer goes down.

Actually, now I think about it, giving us that trait would make Paladin an idela off tank since we can stance switch to shield oath and provoke if needed, but stay in Sword Oath and DPS/support while watching out for that 'oh-crap' moment when the OT has to transition to MT, and keep things on the straight and narrow.

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Raise would be an iffy one now I think, as OT we could raise, heal, protect, stoneskin and then get all our MP back fairly quickly.

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Originally Posted by Myric

Swipe being a dps loss is irrelevant. We are tanks, needing optimal dps isn't our job. Maybe for an OT, but they aren't getting the proc anyways.

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The faster a boss dies, the better it is for everyone. You should not be suicidal as a tank for your dps as some have been, but once you 1) have aggro and are not in threat of losing it 2) have your debuffs on the boss to make yourself easier to heal then your next priority (outside proper mechanics) is 3) kill boss.

The places you should use shield swipe are incredibly limited. Using it will cause goring to fall off (your biggest dps combo by far) or rages debuff if you are doing GB>RoH>RA (as most people are, or some variation there of). The TP gain is minimal (10 per use--you are generally better off just casting a flash and getting back a full GCDS' worth of tp to apply to a better combo tbh, especially if you are so tp starved that goring might fall off).


Raids ignore pacification so thats out. With enough skill speed, you can fit in ONE swipe and not really lose any debuff uptime in your combo, which can be useful (gain back 10 tp, some extra threat, etc) but the reason is not a priority is not because of 'optimal dps'. It is because it is not optimal for tanking.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Raise would be an iffy one now I think, as OT we could raise, heal, protect, stoneskin and then get all our MP back fairly quickly.

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We already have access to raise, we simply can't use it in battle. It's a 6 second cast too, so it's not like we're really creating an imbalance by allowing a paladin to do an emergency raise during battle much like BLM and SMN can. It anything it makes more sense since we have a shield to hide behind while casting.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

We already have access to raise, we simply can't use it in battle. It's a 6 second cast too, so it's not like we're really creating an imbalance by allowing a paladin to do an emergency raise during battle much like BLM and SMN can. It anything it makes more sense since we have a shield to hide behind while casting.

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Umm, BLM can't raise in battle nor has access to it. I honestly think it's a huge buff to PLD utility to have access to raise. Almost broken.

Btw the quotes in your signature made me chuckle.

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Originally Posted by Phoenicia

Umm, BLM can't raise in battle nor has access to it. I honestly think it's a huge buff to PLD utility to have access to raise. Almost broken.

Btw the quotes in your signature made me chuckle.

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Ugh, I had a short brain fart, you're absolutely right, I was thinking of Summoner thanks to the ability they inherit from their Arcanist roots. Apologies, although I do think that it would work as an ability for PLD since we already have Raise. With the new emphasis on us as potential emergency healers and healing support it seems logical to allow us to raise in battle. It's not so much OP, as overly useful perhaps.