Speedrunning: Shoe's on the other foot

I've been a longtime advocate that tanks shouldn't be forced to speedrun. And I still won't force a tank to speed run, but I will bitch on official forums when I feel a tank is going too slow.

Place: AK Normal
Participants: PLD, WHM, NIN, BLM(me)

We're all overgeared for this dungeon. We're all at i110 or close to it. Yet the PLD keeps pulling 3 mobs at a time. While not the slowest possible run since we were killing everything pretty easily, I felt my AOE's weren't being used to their full potential.

Healer was at least bearable DPSing between heals. No complaints about the NIN either. Healer got my comm though.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I felt my AOE's weren't being used to their full potential.

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No, just close. Just think, if he had pulled a fourth mob, you could have aoe'd all of at only 30% less damage reduction to the 4th.

Did you or any other of the Team ask him to Speed run? Or to pull more than 1 Group?

I normally go slow in dungeon simply because i don't like to sr very much, BUT if the people i run with say they want to do it i normally do it. It's just that most of the time no one says anything at all.

AK is a particularly special case imo. Some of us have run it soooo many times its not even funny, some things like pulling sucubi is instinctual to me. As a bard I have been able to solo everything except the first and last boss for a very, very, very, very looooong time. And last week I found out that all I needed for the first and last boss was a healer.

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Originally Posted by lordoftheapes79

AK is a particularly special case imo. Some of us have run it soooo many times its not even funny, some things like pulling sucubi is instinctual to me. As a bard I have been able to solo everything except the first and last boss for a very, very, very, very looooong time. And last week I found out that all I needed for the first and last boss was a healer.

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a lot of things are trivial.

i found that all but the final two bosses are soloable for my DRK on qarn HM. would use it to farm for those drg myth boots i want for glamour but it still takes forever.

Considering that AK normal is right at the beginning of the relic quest, I'll just point out that gear does not necessarily equate to experience—they could easily have bought the gear with another class and actually be a fresh 50. When I hit 50 on Paladin I was doing small pulls in AK normal, because it was my first level 50 dungeon and although I had great gear from my Warrior I was a bit of a mess—I legitimately forgot where I put Circle of Scorn, for instance, and didn't remember what it looked like, and wasn't used to the cooldown timing on it yet.

It's possible that a well-geared tank who isn't pulling much simply isn't very confident in his skills (or his new level 50 moves) yet, especially in AK normal.

Just food for thought.

If you want to Speedrun, play tanking yourself, yo!!!!

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Originally Posted by praysolace

Considering that AK normal is right at the beginning of the relic quest, I'll just point out that gear does not necessarily equate to experience—they could easily have bought the gear with another class and actually be a fresh 50. When I hit 50 on Paladin I was doing small pulls in AK normal, because it was my first level 50 dungeon and although I had great gear from my Warrior I was a bit of a mess—I legitimately forgot where I put Circle of Scorn, for instance, and didn't remember what it looked like, and wasn't used to the cooldown timing on it yet.

It's possible that a well-geared tank who isn't pulling much simply isn't very confident in his skills (or his new level 50 moves) yet, especially in AK normal.

Just food for thought.

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Possible, but we didn't get the notice that anyone was new.

With a geared party, you legitimately don't have to heal the tank in AK anymore...

Tested.

The tank could be not in his best conditions on the night, you know? Or he simply saw the party, gave a bit of look and decided to go slow. Or even he just wanted to go slow. Whatever the case, less bitching, more playing. And if you want to feel superior to others and either force or not force other players to SR, plays Tank !!!

How long would it take to clear AK normal mode slow run now? 10 mins???
How long would it take to clear AK speed run? 7 mins???
How often you go to AK? One or twice per day???

........

If it bothered you that much, you could have asked the tank to pull more instead of coming here to complain >_>'

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Originally Posted by Meimi_chan

If it bothered you that much, you could have asked

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Pull more please :p

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

Possible, but we didn't get the notice that anyone was new.

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In the situation I described, you wouldn't get a notice, because the tank wouldn't be new to the instance—only new to class. I mean lol there's a good chance that's not what happened but there are always possible explanations for slowness. :) Carry on! XD

since the tank wasn't pulling lots of mobs maybe you should of helped out and sleep the other mobs he's not attacking jeez

Half the community complains about too fast and the other half complain about too slow. This is why most tanks just go at their own pace and ignore the complaints. I have seen tanks who walk a lot between pulls and that's when I start having a problem with them(unless it's just to stall and regen). If they are actually pulling and tanking though, I don't care how many mobs they pull.

If you look through these forums, you will find hundreds of threads from people complaining about going too fast and how they hate tanks pulling mutiple groups. You will also find just as many that say the exact opposite. Tanks are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

The Tank sets the pace so it is really up to him. If you want the control then you need to man up or cow girl up and tank yourself. They get so much shit in this game and deserve to run at a pace they are comfortable with.

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Originally Posted by Meimi_chan

If it bothered you that much, you could have asked the tank to pull more instead of coming here to complain >_>'

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Exactly, said many many times, communication is key. Nobody says anything. While the whole time they are thinking "man I wish the tank would pull more" well say it. They may not know what the group can or can't handle, may not be comfortable with a big pull, you never know unless you ask. I've had times where I was asked to pull more, I happily did so.

Though I've been playing for a little over a year and only leveled up a couple other classes, I only really tank. I really have no idea what other players are capable of doing, unless you say something.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

The Tank sets the pace so it is really up to him. If you want the control then you need to man up or cow girl up and tank yourself. They get so much shit in this game and deserve to run at a pace they are comfortable with.

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If they take it. But on the same foot you have horrible tanks that try to blame their mistakes on others so....yeah.

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Originally Posted by Meimi_chan

If it bothered you that much, you could have asked the tank to pull more instead of coming here to complain >_>'

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I could have. Tact is not one of my strong points. Figured it would be in my best interest to suck it up, then vent later, and just do what I can as a DPS to make mobs die faster.

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Originally Posted by Amelia_Pond_Behemoth

I could have. Tact is not one of my strong points. Figured it would be in my best interest to suck it up, then vent later, and just do what I can as a DPS to make mobs die faster.

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I can oly speak for when I'm tanking, but i think most others see it the ame way: If you want your tank to perform in a specific way then say so please.

In the past I often asked at the beginning of the run if People want a fast or slow run, if they want explanaitons or not, if they wanted all Mobs pulled (the last one in pre 50 dungeons were lvl49 or lower Players were present) and other thinks,
but most of the time no one said anything (i think there were only two Groups in over one year of doing at least two dungeons every day actually saying more than hi in the beginning) and most of the time they don't seem to care what i do as Long as i do something, sometimes they seem to be anoyed that I'm not speedruning automatically but a simple "sr pls" at the beginning would be enough (as Long as no one else has anything against it)

I already stopped long ago to ask in the beginning of the dungeon because besides the (ok rarly but it happened) "slowest tank ever"(ok that was only once), "why didn't you ....", "But I needed the exp/..." AFTER the final Boss nothing ever happened.
My answer to this was normaly either just leaving or telling them to speak up BEFORE the dungeon Ends Before it is to late.

As much as I enjoi the "Leader" role i don't think tanks are tyranical leaders that will do whatever they want and dd's/Healers have to submit to whatever they want (of course some tanks might think that way), but more like guids that are part of the Group, they check up the Groups interesst and then decide for the best course of Action, the Problem is if no one says anything the Information your tank has is 1/4 to 1/8 of the Groups interesst and that automatically means your interessts are left out of consideration, not because the Tank is such a d*** but simply because you left it up to luck that your interesst coinciudentaly are the same as your tanks.

I realize this became a rather long rant, but i'm just a bit feed up with alsmost two years of trying to do my best be it in a dungeon run or something like coil/alexander and the reason why someone is unsatisfied with my gameplay is their own fault a si cannot read their mind.

Just remember to speak politly and do not demand (a "sr pls" is much better than a "Hey tank don't you dare not to Speed run")

What Tam said ^

Tank, healer or DPS, you're entitled to your opinion of how a run should go and if it matters to you, speak up. If I'm uncomfortable with your request I'll tell you, otherwise I'm happy to oblige. Recently in a HW dungeon (forget which) I was tanking one pull at a time being that I was fairly new to the content and wasn't sure how others felt. A DPS put in chat "pull more?" I responded "k" and started doing big pulls. Sometimes I want to go fast, sometimes I don't care but at the end of the day, the only reason I'm making the decision is because nobody spoke up and I'm the one in front.

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Originally Posted by Cirgellon

Tanks are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

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Except we're not. If a healer is slow on heals and dpsing isn't the reason for it or a DPS is slow on their DPS and isn't new, I'll axe them once that 5 minutes are up unless their new and are willing to learn some basics. One of the reasons I like tanking in dungeons? I rarely have to go over 25 minutes in any current one.

I feel bad for those that do.