Was anyone else surprised to see the patch notes and not see any buffs for astro?

Pretty much what the title says...

Yup. I was at least hoping for a small buff or some QOL improvements. Maybe we need to ask for buffs in the main general discussion section for some changes. The bards and machinists did it. haha

Maybe in the future my friend.

Not really. I was surprised that they tweaked as much as they did.

AST is less obviously broken than the Jobs/features that got tweaked. My bet is on tweaks beginning with 3.05 or whichever patch they call the one that introduces Alex Savage.

alex savage is in 2 weeks and will likely be 3.02 unless they plan to do another next week...

Small round of tuning in 3.05 but the real tuning pass will come with 3.1 i guess.

They need to gather enough relevant data to adjust jobs.

I think for now they are prioritizing more broken jobs aka mch and brd. They will touch AST later because from perspective, AST isn't exactly broken.

It would be amazing to see anything at all happen with it some time soon, but, as others have pointed out, it isn't exactly broken. Its just not where it could be competitively with other healers.

Lets not talk about Shuffle giving us the same card 80% of the time, either.

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Originally Posted by Nanyako

It would be amazing to see anything at all happen with it some time soon, but, as others have pointed out, it isn't exactly broken. Its just not where it could be competitively with other healers.

Lets not talk about Shuffle giving us the same card 80% of the time, either.

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"Spire 30s into the pull? Not needed I'll just shuffle after applying this regen..."

*Shuffle*

"Hello Spire... we meet again."

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

"Spire 30s into the pull? Not needed I'll just shuffle after applying this regen..."

*Shuffle*

"Hello Spire... we meet again."

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Hello spire my old friend...

Not exactly surprised. AST problems aren't as simple to gauge and fix as DD numbers.

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Originally Posted by dragoelete

alex savage is in 2 weeks and will likely be 3.02 unless they plan to do another next week...

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The names of the builds don't usually follow like that. From what they've said before, we can expect a progression along the lines of 3.01->3.05->3.1.

I don't know how the naming system works, but I'm guessing that they use smaller decimals to indicate minor updates and .1 increments to denote larger updates (such as those that expand on the main story or introduce a major new quest line like the Relic coming with 3.1).

IMO, three ways "AST"'s cards could be fixed...

- Always use them, hold the card until used without the timeout. eg, draw the card and it stays drawn until used or exit of combat.
- Auto-use them (eg the cards have affinity for caster or melee) unless rainbow road is selected
- Make each card usable on every role. A TP card on a caster is functionally useless.

Bards were SCREAMING from the rooftops that they were ruined forever and the class was over. Machinist was actually being denied from some elitist-laden parties.
Astrologian has issues, but they're not that obvious, nor are they as simple to fix.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Not really. I was surprised that they tweaked as much as they did.

AST is less obviously broken than the Jobs/features that got tweaked. My bet is on tweaks beginning with 3.05 or whichever patch they call the one that introduces Alex Savage.

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Yeah this is what i was thinking, it will take a couple of weeks after alexander savage to have any changes to AST. I suspect most progression raid groups are not going to take an AST in with them, so hopefully this sets the alarm bells rings for the devs.

If AST will not be balanced (because it's not to fix, but to balance with SCH and WHM) I won't change my class and I'll stay SCH because I don't want to create problems to my raid group because I can't provide efficient heals during progression, when it's obvious that you're forced to overheal because people make mistakes.
So... let's wait and see.

This is the best way to let devs hear our voices.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ou-square-enix

Not really, SE has done a great job of balancing in this game. I've been trying to say it, astro isn't broken. And SE agrees.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Not really, SE has done a great job of balancing in this game. I've been trying to say it, astro isn't broken. And SE agrees.

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Not exactly broken, but I'm not a huge fan on depending on RNG to just give me the same card again. When I desperately need Bole or Ewer to appear.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Not exactly broken, but I'm not a huge fan on depending on RNG to just give me the same card again. When I desperately need Bole or Ewer to appear.

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That's the job... You have cards, it random. Just like corsair in ffxi. Why are you playing an rng job when you don't like rng?

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Originally Posted by Krixus

That's the job... You have cards, it random. Just like corsair in ffxi. Why are you playing an rng job when you don't like rng?

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Who really likes rng? Not a lot to be honest. Anyways, one small annoyance isn't going to drive me from a class that I overall find enjoyable.

Eh if it's not balanced then I'll probably just stick to SCH as well. ASTs blatant weaknesses without any pay off has diminished the value of this expansion for me. My largest reason for wanting to play HW was seeing AST announced for the first time. I was ready to main it the day it came out and I did. It was my first 60 and when I did hit 60 I thought to myself "this is it?"

I didn't want to level SCH to 60 but I needed to give AST another chance so took up SCH for a fair comparison. Leveling SCH compared to AST 50+ was an absolute breeze. Parse numbers tell me that SCH does higher AoE DPS and higher single target DPS. I mathed out the gains of Selene's Fey Wind in comparison to our best case senario coming up with an Expanded Arrow/Balance combo. 10.8% for an expanded Arrow or Balance to land within the first two draws and it's weaker than Fey Wind from jump.

My damage mitigation is weaker. My mana sustain is weaker. My HPS is weaker. Personal DPS is weaker and most importantly, My buffs are weaker.

All of this "hybrid tax" and I can't even switch stances in combat. What's the point? I'm glad people like the class for what it is but I'm just incredibly disappointed and I pretty much got hyped for nothing.

The hybrid tax is real indeed. But will never be enough to make me go back to my retarded fairy that I have to spam a key for her to listen when she decides its a good time to.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

The hybrid tax is real indeed. But will never be enough to make me go back to my retarded fairy that I have to spam a key for her to listen when she decides its a good time to.

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yes because there buffs are at least guaranteed and useful every 60 seconds, even removing the fairy from SCH and looking at just the player itself with its crit shield mechanic would still roll favourably against the AST, having a fairy on top just kills any chance of the class being balanced compared to the other two

AST is not a bad class, but that also does not make it viable when compared to the other two.

The wishful thinking that this hotfix will adjust AST and every negative sayers and their mothers will jump ship. Ahaha.

I'm more concerned that relic wasn't put in yet.

I was surprised honestly because it needs a buff. I been playing it quite a bit doing AST/SCH and I like that combo. You can heal and buff the party. I mean how many threads do we have to make to say fix this job. Bard and eat crap and die they are useful for mana/foes the rest of them are dead on the floor.... but AST is like the only time mage/healer i'm gonna get! FIX IT

AST is having the same issue as DRK right now, it's a hybrid of warrior and paladin with no real advantage over the two, however while AST is also a hybrid in this sense its fine for the job role of healing, unless you're terrible at healing you can do just fine in dungeons and raids with zero issues. The main thing i would like to see changed are their dps abilities, they're far too weak even at max level to be of any use, the dot's aren't terrible but let's be real they don't come close to what WHM and SCH can do when it comes to dps and never will with their current tools. And change shuffle to only give you a random card besides the one you just drew, i too have experienced the pain of drawing the same card twice quite often, but can just hold or royal road it if its useless.

Astro is not broken nor was it on the level of bard/machinist. It will be quality of life changes like no more double shuffle same card and change to a useless cooldown but outside that Astros have healed all content solo. You cannot compare astro to white/scholar because the job was intended to have access to both sects in battle but se nerfed it. Once we can shift in battle our strength will rival the other 2.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr-Umbra

AST is having the same issue as DRK right now, it's a hybrid of warrior and paladin with no real advantage over the two, however while AST is also a hybrid in this sense its fine for the job role of healing, unless you're terrible at healing you can do just fine in dungeons and raids with zero issues. The main thing i would like to see changed are their dps abilities, they're far too weak even at max level to be of any use, the dot's aren't terrible but let's be real they don't come close to what WHM and SCH can do when it comes to dps and never will with their current tools. And change shuffle to only give you a random card besides the one you just drew, i too have experienced the pain of drawing the same card twice quite often, but can just hold or royal road it if its useless.

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Can you tell me how much dps those other 2 healers do? Because I keep hearing AST's dps is terrible. Just for comparison purpose.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Who really likes rng? Not a lot to be honest. Anyways, one small annoyance isn't going to drive me from a class that I overall find enjoyable.

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As someone who played an ecaflip in wakfu where if rng was bad we would draw a card which could kill a party member (Or even heal the boss by a few turns of damage) I really enjoy an RNG gamble class, high stakes big payoff.

Cmon guys a stun skill with 150 secs cool down while whm can spam it.... Lol

Its ridiculous.

Another cool thing would be that one that allows us to change our sects. It would be cool doing it during battle.

And give us more seconds on card buffs. Let them last a Lil longer. And please..... collective unconscious! Most beautiful looking skill and the most useless in all the game. I tried to use it but only works with trash mobs pulls. Just that.

Please se listen to our voices.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Once we can shift in battle our strength will rival the other 2.

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I'm afraid that won't fix it since in-battle flexibility is not our main problem. What needs to be adjusted:

1. Cooldowns. Synastry and Essential Dignity are nice in the given situation, but they are far from enough to handle progression content. Lightspeed is also more like self-punishment than genuine help.
2. MP sustain. Our only reliable tool is Luminiferous Aether; WHM get 2 (Assize and Shroud of Saints), SCH have 2 as well (Aetherflow, Energy Drain). On top of that we have a situational proc for Benefic instead of the WHM's Freecure.
3. Nocturnal Sect is highly inefficient in regards to HPM. The potencies may be the same as SCH, but we don't get the crit bonus and we also don't have a fairy to fall back on.
4. Cards need some QoL adjustments to reduce the RNG somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Elendia

2. MP sustain. Our only reliable tool is Luminiferous Aether; WHM get 2 (Assize and Shroud of Saints), SCH have 2 as well (Aetherflow, Energy Drain). On top of that we have a situational proc for Benefic instead of the WHM's Freecure.

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Why do people keep saying this?
Our mana sustaining is actually quite okay, if you have troubles with mana then remember to pop a celestial opposition to extend the aether length and even save a spear card (which in my experience as long as draw is kept on cooldown always pops up at least once in a fight with enough length to kill your mana.) and use it to shorten Luminiferous's cooldown.

The only time an Astrologian would have problems is when you are learning content and people are dying a lot and need resses, this has always been a thing for all classes when their Ilvl is close to the levels base ilevel due to mana cost scaling, its why bards/mch exist as support and I swear if I hear someone saying "We shouldn't rely on Bards/MCH" then they also have to answer the question "Why have a support with a mana regen skill if we shouldn't need to use it?" at least for content you are learning.

The only issue with astro is a few cooldowns. People post that astro has healed every fight in the game and you bash the astro going back to white mage and scholar. No one is turning away Astros in all content in the game but since you are closed minded you scream bloody murder. Can Astros heal all content in the game. Yes. Does white mage do it better... Yes. Does scholar provide stronger dps. Sometimes yes. But astro can out heal scholar and can out dps if you include dps buffs you provide. Look at it from that prospective then astro is fine.

Well, the MP sustain is indeed "ok". Astro is also a viable healer, but the job is falling behind the other two right now in more than one aspect. Thankfully it's not flat out broken - can't imagine to switch away from AST. :)

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Originally Posted by Elendia

I'm afraid that won't fix it since in-battle flexibility is not our main problem. What needs to be adjusted:

1. Cooldowns. Synastry and Essential Dignity are nice in the given situation, but they are far from enough to handle progression content. Lightspeed is also more like self-punishment than genuine help.
2. MP sustain. Our only reliable tool is Luminiferous Aether; WHM get 2 (Assize and Shroud of Saints), SCH have 2 as well (Aetherflow, Energy Drain). On top of that we have a situational proc for Benefic instead of the WHM's Freecure.
3. Nocturnal Sect is highly inefficient in regards to HPM. The potencies may be the same as SCH, but we don't get the crit bonus and we also don't have a fairy to fall back on.
4. Cards need some QoL adjustments to reduce the RNG somewhat.

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I disagree with some of these statements, Lightspeed is nowhere near punishment if used correctly, i've taken the time to test it and noticed in a situation for example you might not normally be able to keep up on heals with your tank, light speed will push you over and allow you heal beyond the damage the tank is taking. However that is not even the intended use, it's main use is for dodging mechanics while still keeping up on heals and buffs, which is a very useful skill allowing you to heal on the move and due to the lack of casting time is actually a HPM boost rather than a draw back despite the potency you lose.

While true AST only get one MP regaining ability, instead of a 3 minute cool down like shroud of saints its only a 2 minute cool down, which at least allows you to refresh quicker. While still falling a bit short compared to the 10% mp regen from Assize it's more than reliable, i've had no issues and nor should anyone else if using their skills correctly. As for the benefic proc i do agree that is somewhat terrible compared to a free cure, the insta cast doesn't really make up for it, if it cost half as much as normal while retaining the insta cast i would prefer it a lot more. I don't want to compare them to SCH's either since their whole shtick is infinite mp.

I don't see nocturnal sect as inefficient either, i mean if you're comparing it directly to SCH, then yes it is, but you're missing the point of it, AST's are intended to be able to switch sects to fill what the party needs, it's not meant to do it better than a SCH but to fill the role of it should a SCH be absent from the party, and the 5% increased healing puts benefic 1&2 on par with cure 1&2. If AST could output the healing a WHM could or the shielding a SCH could there would be no point in it, it can do both to a lesser degree but even though its slightly less optimal the fact it can do both makes it very useful, if they could switch on the fly it would make them very useful in a situation where one healer dies and the AST needs to fill said role until the other healer is back up or if the other healer is reviving or dealing with a mechanic etc.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

But astro can out heal scholar

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Made my day. You must seriously play with some bad scholars.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

That's the job... You have cards, it random. Just like corsair in ffxi. Why are you playing an rng job when you don't like rng?

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In FFXI, Corsairs had the ability to pick the buffs they wanted. The potency of the buff was left to RNG elements. This is not the case with AST. While AST and COR share a similar theme the execution of their actions are dramatically different.

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Originally Posted by Elendia

Well, the MP sustain is indeed "ok". Astro is also a viable healer, but the job is falling behind the other two right now in more than one aspect. Thankfully it's not flat out broken - can't imagine to switch away from AST. :)

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Aye exactly I wouldn't say our mana management is anything better than ok since it gets the job done and only that.
The thing keeping me to Astro is indeed how fun it is to play compared to other healers, it is more involved and needs a load of situational awareness, what I really hope is the sects is given a mechanic like Paladins stance change where you can do it in battle but it costs an amount of mana (of course that might need to be offset with slightly better mana regeneration, to that I say - LET ME USE TIME DILATION ON MYSELF! :C) being able to switch to diurnal to pop a regen and then shift into nocturnal to keep up a shield because shield + regen is super effective and that will be a good + for our lacking heals.

Of course we need to have our support given a leg up since it doesn't cut it right now, but we also have to remember that our buffs is based off of percentages and this will eventually have a greater effect than it does now (things like spear won't change but a balance will be worth so much more) our cooldowns need more support as well because I did expect it would be more than just our cards giving us support I do not know how they will do that with current skills and skill limits but I kinda want to see more awesome support combos coming from Astro...Like lightspeed for example, after they change it to also effect GCD and change that potency debuff because right now it is near useless but being able to cast it on other classes like summoner or BLM can be an awesome utility.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr-Umbra

It's main use is for dodging mechanics while still keeping up on heals and buffs, which is very useful skill which allows you to heal on the move and due to the lack of casting time is actually a HPM boost rather than a draw back despite the potency you lose.

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As a nocturnal stance user this is made useless due to the fact aspected can be cast during movement and doesn't get any decrease as well as being able to shield, though in nocturnal the power of most of our cooldowns is lower anyway, so yeah.

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Originally Posted by Zephyr-Umbra

I don't see nocturnal sect as inefficient either, i mean if you're comparing it directly to SCH, then yes it is, but you're missing the point of it, AST's are intended to be able to switch sects to fill what the party needs, it's not meant to do it better than a SCH but to fill the role of it should a SCH be absent from the party, and the 5% increased healing puts benefic 1&2 on par with cure 1&2. If AST could output the healing a WHM could or the shielding a SCH could there would be no point in it, it can do both to a lesser degree but even though its slightly less optimal the fact it can do both makes it very useful, if they could switch on the fly it would make them very useful in a situation where one healer dies and the AST needs to fill said role until the other healer is back up or if the other healer is reviving or dealing with a mechanic etc.

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Its a lot more mana inefficient, diurnal is so much better due to our regens being effected by time dilation this kind of make diurnal make up for the less healing potency + you get more cast speed from diurnal.

Also earlier point - A lot of cooldowns are less of a bang in Nocturnal with synastry as an exception also we can stack regens with WHM but can't stack shields.

Diurnal >>> Nocturnal by a large amount, what is the point of nocturnal if our damage mitigation isn't very up to par and its better to just stack regens with a WHM.

Side note - That being said Nocturnal is my go to for stances because how I see it is, as a "sleeper agent" stance and later on because of the bonus of a percentage of healing increased as stats go higher its going to make a bigger effect on the healing.

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Originally Posted by MidnightTundra

Eh if it's not balanced then I'll probably just stick to SCH as well. ASTs blatant weaknesses without any pay off has diminished the value of this expansion for me. My largest reason for wanting to play HW was seeing AST announced for the first time. I was ready to main it the day it came out and I did. It was my first 60 and when I did hit 60 I thought to myself "this is it?"

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This is pretty much exactly how I feel as well. The job just isn't amazing (though spell abilities look amazing). It's really lacking in multiple areas, and the buffs definitely don't make up for the shortcomings it presents.

You make some valid points, i never really thought how useful time dilation was in comparison, i wouldn't go as far to say that it beats nocturnal by a large amount but i understand why it would be preferable over it. I would like to see an mp reduction on AST abilities to make up for the overall weaker effects, it would blend well with the feeling of diurnal sect as well, playing more fast and cheap.